5 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Man what

Man what indeed

11 minutes ago, tray said:

Kopech would be as effective as Liam Hendriks as a Closer. Get rid of Kimbrel and Hendriks and Close by committee until Kopech takes the throne. Then you pay him handsomely and he forgets about being stretched out as a partial season starter.

Trade Vaughn for a starting pitcher.

Tell me you play too much MLBTheShow 21 without telling me you play too much MLBTheShow 21....

1 hour ago, EloyJenkins said:

I have had a few days to decompress and calm down. As one of the resident "Optimists" on this board, this season is the biggest failure I can remember.
2000 stung, but the talent level in pitching this year was far superior.

3 things I see as Absolutely necessary items to address:

-Lynn MUST go on a conditioning program. The 60 to full season jump affected him more than anyone else. Love his fire, but he needs to put the work in this offseason and be sustainable next year. Without him being effective come October, the season is already at risk.  

-2 Fielding fundamentals mini-camps. I can't stress this enough. Do an optional one in December/January, and then make a mandatory camp a couple days before spring training. I really hope this comes with a new manager (doubtful), but at the very least ALL the fielders need to tighten up and have video/tactical plans clearly outlined. I know this is a huge ask and prima donna attitudes will reign, but poor alignment/shifts, lazy technique, and improper cut off man/relays destroyed this team against Houston. Embarrassing and unacceptable. 

Totally concur on Lynn, have been posting since his chronic knee issues ended his dominance the past two months of the season.

In terms of fielding, infield guy Joe McEwing and outfield guy Daryl Boston have been here close to a decade. Outside of Daryl's work with Vaughn, there is not much evidence any fundamentals were covered this season. The same defensive crap that people bitched about when Ricky was here has not changed whatsoever. They haven't done much of anything under three managers, and it's hard to imagine something changing now.

Jerry sprung for two additional coaches for Tony, because clearly he could use as much help as possible. One was used on their catcher "guru" Jerry Narron. If anything, the catchers collectively took a step back this season. I don't see anything happening on the #2 front, unless Tony leaves or they make changes the Sox or Tony seldom if ever make.

22 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Man what

Yea "man"

Vaughn did not prove that he can hit RH pitchers. He is too slow to be an everyday outfielder. That is why he wasn't used much in the playoffs. He got a hit against Raley who is a garbage pitcher for the Astros.

Sheets is probably a better hitter and a candidate to become the Sox DH. 

 

 

 

28 minutes ago, tray said:

Kopech would be as effective as Liam Hendriks as a Closer. Get rid of Kimbrel and Hendriks and Close by committee until Kopech takes the throne. Then you pay him handsomely and he forgets about being stretched out as a partial season starter.

Trade Vaughn for a starting pitcher.

Kopech may be as effective as a closer, but he has 4 ++ pitches he profiles better as a starter and is more valuable as such. Not on board with trading Vaughn for a pitcher. Especially when you can just sign one. Plus I expect Lopez will be long reliever, spot starter, 6th starter next year.

Edited October 14, 20214 yr by kleedawg
grammar

2 minutes ago, tray said:

Vaughn did not prove that he can hit RH pitchers. He is too slow to be an everyday outfielder. That is why he wasn't used much in the playoffs. He got a hit against Raley who is a garbage pitcher for the Astros.

Sheets is probably a better hitter and a candidate to become the Sox DH. 

 

 

 

Vaughn didn't prove he couldn't hit RH pitchers either. You can be slow footed and a good defensive outfielder (Tom Brunansky for 1). Having a gazelle play CF also helps in this regard and makes it less likely Vaughn crashes into that gazelle as the faster Eloy would.

58 minutes ago, kleedawg said:

Maybe, but if they stretched him out and he got hurt, then you would say they fucked him up and overworked him.  They had a plan for him that was reasonable. It will always be debatable whether it was the best plan (which is what we are doing) but who really knows what the best plan is. Its not an exact science, we just have our opinion. I think the biggest problem with Kopech was scrapping the change-up as a reliever. Hitters just sat FB against him an took the slider. Sliders are much easier to identify from fast balls than change-ups.

If the spin is tight, I wouldn't say this is true; as long as he's releasing from the same point. Sliders travel on the same plane even longer than change ups. They are both really effective pitches, but again... your last point states the level of mismanagement. It's very very difficult to throw 3 pitches out of the bullpen as a one inning guy. It's very infrequent you have a feel for all three pitches in your first inning. You find feel for pitches as games progress. By throwing Kopech 1 inning for so long, you basically forced him to scrap the change up. There was no time for experimentation given his role

56 minutes ago, ptatc said:

I disagree. The plan wasn't the mistake. I don't think predicting an injury to take away innings is a reasonable plan to start the year.

Before the injury, Kopech made 14 appearances, of those 14 appearances only three were 1 inning, 5 were more than 2 innings.

In July and August after he returned, Kopech made 20 appearances, of those 20 only THREE were over 1 inning, and of those three one was for 1 1/3.

The Sox executed the plan exactly as they wanted, and it is very clear they did not want his innings to go above the level he reached. They waited until September 15th to let Kopech throw more than 35 pitches in an outing. He reached 70 innings, which was quite obviously - to me at least - the goal they wanted him to reach. Why obvious? Because they had two months between July and August to give him more innings but they chose to make him a one inning guy during that period of time.

Honestly, I think their #1 Target should be trying to acquire C.J. Abrams from the Padres. They will be desperate to win next year. They really don't have room for C.J. with Cronenworth, Frazier on their roster, they have Grisham in CF, so I think they might be tempted in moving him. I honestly think that we could package Kimbrel/Crochet to SD and send some money to them and they may return C.J. He could fill the immediate need at 2B for us right now and be cost effective, a la Madrigal, for the next 6 years. 

The next target needs to be a legitimate #1 SP. I don't know who that is, but that should be the target and I'd even be interested in moving Vaughn for this to happen. 

The 3rd target needs to be a legitimate RFer, I'm done playing whoever out there, I was okay with it at first, but that critical missed fly ball in game 2 was the final straw. There are plenty of OFer's that we can grab, we need to pay the piper and get an actual good RFer for a year or two until Cespedes is ready.

22 minutes ago, tray said:

Yea "man"

Please explain we we are taking Liam and shoving him aside for a guy who has never closed a game before?  How are you so sure that this will work, "man"?

 

not sure why we are quoting that word now but I will from now on

36 minutes ago, RibbieRubarb said:

Tell me you play too much MLBTheShow 21 without telling me you play too much MLBTheShow 21....

Greg has Tim moving to catcher so that league must be fun as hell 

1 minute ago, TheCommish said:

we need to pay the piper and get an actual good RFer for a year or two until Cespedes is ready.

This is the big issue here. Long term option was last year in Springer (too expensive) and finding a 2 year deal is tricky. Based on his age & likelihood of only needing 2-3 years, Starling Marte is a good play...but he isn't Lefty. HIs splits play well though, so it's not a horrible idea. Cespedes has not shown enough yet unfortunately to lock him into a set date. 

13 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He has a .127 BABIP in the post-season, which is less than half his career average, and is almost certainly the victim of bad luck.  If you’re going to hate, at least stick with his defense.

Did he hit any balls hard against Houston outside of the homer? I saw a lot of lazy fly balls and ground balls from him when he put it in play. Even if he carries a .800 OPS in the playoffs, it’s not good enough to overcome his defensive liabilities when every pitch/run is magnified.

To all of those who want to write off Vaughn after a bad last 22 games (because that's what it was - he had a .797 OPS as of August 19th) - Do you remember Moncada and Anderson took several hundred at bats to round into major league caliber hitters? Andrew Vaughn was amazing in 2021 all things considered. He was asked to play defense at three positions he'd never played and handled the bat just fine for a rookie without any minor league experience. He will be great in a couple years.

22 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Before the injury, Kopech made 14 appearances, of those 14 appearances only three were 1 inning, 5 were more than 2 innings.

In July and August after he returned, Kopech made 20 appearances, of those 20 only THREE were over 1 inning, and of those three one was for 1 1/3.

The Sox executed the plan exactly as they wanted, and it is very clear they did not want his innings to go above the level he reached. They waited until September 15th to let Kopech throw more than 35 pitches in an outing. He reached 70 innings, which was quite obviously - to me at least - the goal they wanted him to reach. Why obvious? Because they had two months between July and August to give him more innings but they chose to make him a one inning guy during that period of time.

Or. The injury changed their plan and they were worried about stressing the hamstring to much to avoid a Engel scenario. They waited until September 15th because they wanted more innings for an extended playoff run, which unfortunately didn't happen but they were planning on having him ready for it.

It's time for the shitty transactions to stop,.

Go get LHB Corey Seager to play 2b/SS. Go get Conforto or Marte for RF. Sign a SP like Rodon/Max and i'll be happy. 

Conforto should be number 1 on their list as he is a LHB and RF.  Already have a SS and I doubt Seager would play 2b.

14 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Or. The injury changed their plan and they were worried about stressing the hamstring to much to avoid a Engel scenario. They waited until September 15th because they wanted more innings for an extended playoff run, which unfortunately didn't happen but they were planning on having him ready for it.

So they pitched him with greater frequency because they were worried about stressing the hamstring? Huh?

If anything spreading his appearances out would be beneficial for the muscle.

The tighter the spin on the slider the harder it is to identify but its still easier to identify than a change up. Sliders generally have a dime sized "hole" in the middle created from the rotating seams. Change - ups and fastballs look similar and the hand of the pitcher is behind the ball in both cases. The fingers on a slider are usually off to the side a bit. Curves are the easiest to identify because its the only pitch where the ball comes over the fingers when thrown. Now, pitchers are doing better "tunneling" their sliders and all pitches to look more like their fastball. 

Even when you fool a hitter into thinking a slider is a FB it is easier to make a last second adjustment and redirect the bat to hit the slider because the velocity between the slider and the fb is more similar then the Fb and change. I have gotten quite a few hits on sliders off the end of the bat in this way. A good change is death to a hitter.

 

2nd point, Thats if you subscribe to the 2 pitch hypothesis for relievers. Some relievers throw way more...joakim soria for example.  Kopech would only need to throw a couple of changes every other outing or so in a relief role to keep hitters honest. 

Edited October 14, 20214 yr by kleedawg

17 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

It's time for the shitty transactions to stop,.

Go get LHB Corey Seager to play 2b/SS. Go get Conforto or Marte for RF. Sign a SP like Rodon/Max and i'll be happy. 

Ignoring everything else here, do you really believe that these two are remotely close?

19 minutes ago, iWiN4PreP said:

It's time for the shitty transactions to stop,.

Go get LHB Corey Seager to play 2b/SS. Go get Conforto or Marte for RF. Sign a SP like Rodon/Max and i'll be happy. 

Thats like 400 million dollars right there

1 minute ago, kleedawg said:

Thats like 400 million dollars right there

Don't let reality get in the way of a good time. 

1 minute ago, Tony said:

Don't let reality get in the way of a good time. 

How much do you think those 3 players will cost?

3 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I agree, pitching Kopech in more starts down the stretch was a solid idea to help go for HFA and to build up his arm. That’s exactly what they should have done.

He gets hurt, and you want to pitch him more.  Makes sense.