1 minute ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

We handled his development to a starter horribly.  Undisputed.

Part of that is realizing he doesn't have the stuff to actually be a starter.

58 minutes ago, hankchifan said:

Grandal can’t throw runners out, and has problems with pitches on the dirt.  But his hitting is good with great OBP.  Suitable for DH and back up catcher.

NO one is throwing out runners if pitchers allow them to run freely.

38 minutes ago, fathom said:

The bench was ok this year.  Definitely need a new back-up catcher.

Uh, I'll say - it only carried us for half a season of injuries to our regulars, and the home-grown replacements and "next man up" success was the story of the season up to August.  Man, narratives can shift quickly around here

Has Miguel Cairo been fired yet??

26 minutes ago, Buehrle>Wood said:

Part of that is realizing he doesn't have the stuff to actually be a starter.

97 with a good slider wouldn't have worked? 

We should have tried at least.  Instead we went with a short term plan

6 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

97 with a good slider wouldn't have worked? 

We should have tried at least.  Instead we went with a short term plan

That’s what happens when you don’t put a guy in the minor leagues to build stamina and work on secondary stuff.

5 hours ago, Tony said:

You can look it for yourself, but here is Houston, the team that the Sox will eventually have to get past...

Rays: 4-2 

Red Sox: 5-2

Yankees: 2-4

Blue Jays: 4-2

White Sox: 5-2

Seattle: 11-8

A's: 11-8

Giants: 1-2 

Dodgers: 2-2

That's a 45-32 record against above .500 teams (when the season ended)* in 2021. 

Makes sense. I would like to see the run differential as well to see where they stand. 

4 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

That’s what happens when you don’t put a guy in the minor leagues to build stamina and work on secondary stuff.

There would not have been a substantial difference in workload. Working on secondary stuff is valid though.

12 minutes ago, ptatc said:

There would not have been a substantial difference in workload. Working on secondary stuff is valid though.

If I go back to the spring where we had this discussion and I insisted that they wouldn’t get him to 80 innings because there wouldn’t be enough innings to go around, am I going to find you assuring me that he will get way more than 55?

this u?

 

20 minutes ago, reiks12 said:

I think Crochet is gone this offseason, his development is so off track. Hes either a reliever with us or a starter elsewhere. I am only saying that because he hasnt been stretched out at all and i cant imagine relief duty is what he wants to do to start his career. The time to stretch out his arm isnt during our window imo.

Then how do the Dodgers and Rays develop guys all the time during their windows? 

Crochet and Kopech were poorly mishandled this year, doesn't mean they won't be starters moving forward. 

If the pitching staff is not throwing breaking balls, sliders, changeups, etc., because Yaz can't fucking block them, then the Sox absolutely need a new catcher... Yaz was fucking abysmal in the playoffs, outside of one swing. I thought he called terrible games more often than not, he is shit defensively, and none of what he brings at the plate, or his "elite pitch framing" makes up for his deficiencies. I think catcher is absolutely a need of this team.

1 hour ago, raBBit said:

If you don't have proof that's fine I was just asking. 

He doesn’t. He just hates all things Grandal. 

6 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

He doesn’t. He just hates all things Grandal. 

He's not alone. I am glad to have Grandal. I believe the  broadcast for one of the games in Houston said it was his 6th straight postseason. Three different teams. I thought the way Grandal hit after April would chill some people out but they focus on the D. Which could be better.

Just now, raBBit said:

He's not alone. I am glad to have Grandal. I believe the  broadcast for one of the games in Houston said it was his 6th straight postseason. Three different teams. I thought the way Grandal hit after April would chill some people out but they focus on the D. Which could be better.

Yeah, he’s not perfect. No doubt about it. But he’s one of the best offensive catchers in the game. The running game isn’t really his fault, tho he’s leaves something to be desired defensively as many catchers that can hit do. But he’s not suddenly becoming a backup catcher in 2022 like some here are going to push for all offseason. 

2 hours ago, hankchifan said:

What’s your point?  Getting rid of Hahn?  Someone should be accountable for these bad moves.

Just sadness. Past three years I’ve hated the moves this organization has made. It was so obvious in our series against HOU. I’m just sad ok.

23 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said:

If the pitching staff is not throwing breaking balls, sliders, changeups, etc., because Yaz can't fucking block them, then the Sox absolutely need a new catcher... Yaz was fucking abysmal in the playoffs, outside of one swing. I thought he called terrible games more often than not, he is shit defensively, and none of what he brings at the plate, or his "elite pitch framing" makes up for his deficiencies. I think catcher is absolutely a need of this team.

Yes 

11 minutes ago, raBBit said:

He's not alone. I am glad to have Grandal. I believe the  broadcast for one of the games in Houston said it was his 6th straight postseason. Three different teams. I thought the way Grandal hit after April would chill some people out but they focus on the D. Which could be better.

The problem is, he fucking sucks at pretty much everything you need a catcher to be good at, to win a world series... His offense isn't even remotely good enough to make up for this. Especially when he's a career .605 OPS in the playoffs.

15 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

Yeah, he’s not perfect. No doubt about it. But he’s one of the best offensive catchers in the game. The running game isn’t really his fault, tho he’s leaves something to be desired defensively as many catchers that can hit do. But he’s not suddenly becoming a backup catcher in 2022 like some here are going to push for all offseason. 

Look at how many holes we have and people actually think bringing in a new catcher is somehow realistic.  I fully agree the defense could be better, but the hatred for Grandal by a handful of posters here is beyond crazy to me.  The gamethreads are almost unbearable with the amount of nitpicking / blame sent his way.

34 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

Then how do the Dodgers and Rays develop guys all the time during their windows? 

Crochet and Kopech were poorly mishandled this year, doesn't mean they won't be starters moving forward. 

I learned that the Rays starters throw the least amount if innings. That is not to their benefit in the post season.

44 minutes ago, Joshua Strong said:

Then how do the Dodgers and Rays develop guys all the time during their windows? 

Crochet and Kopech were poorly mishandled this year, doesn't mean they won't be starters moving forward. 

They were not mishandled as far as innings were concerned. Based on previous innings pitched they were never going to pitch much more.

If you would have preferred those innings in the minors, that's valid bit they weren't pitching more innings there.

1 hour ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

97 with a good slider wouldn't have worked? 

We should have tried at least.  Instead we went with a short term plan

He can barely touch 97 consistently pitching one inning every three days. He would probably be 93-94 as a starter.

Sox had a good catcher last year. Get him back. 

11 minutes ago, ptatc said:

They were not mishandled as far as innings were concerned. Based on previous innings pitched they were never going to pitch much more.

If you would have preferred those innings in the minors, that's valid bit they weren't pitching more innings there.

Unfortunately our resident physical trainer disagrees with you. Here's where he says that if Kopech fails to reach 80-90 innings, he will call it a mistake.

 

1 minute ago, pcq said:

Sox had a good catcher last year. Get him back. 

McCann had a monster season!  Definitely the missing link!

2 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Unfortunately our resident physical trainer disagrees with you. Here's where he says that if Kopech fails to reach 80-90 innings, he will call it a mistake.

 

If there was only some explanation in the change in his expectations this year... such as an injury which caused a revision of his usage.