chw42 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 Just now, fathom said: If Giolito was a reliever, they would have given him that extra 50k They would have offered him $10 million instead of $7.3 million. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, maloney.adam said: The penny pinching with Giolito pretty much puts this conversation to rest. This is clearly personal with Giolito Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GREEDY Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 minute ago, fathom said: This is clearly personal with Giolito It's always just 50k more. I don't think the negotiations are as simple as fanbases believe. You can meet their number and the agent tells you they will call their client and make sure that is where they are still at. Then you don't hear anything for them for weeks. Then it is a new number. It is not as simple as just saying yes. There are pretty good estimates of what players should get in ARB. If your club constantly goes above that number the agents hold you to the fire for even more. It sucks but you have to go to the arbitrator every so often. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 hour ago, FoxForce2 said: 1. Barring a complete change in direction on Conforto or taking the flyer on Joc, the only way we really strengthen RF is getting someone in a Kimbrel deal. By most appearances, that forces the Sox into a stand-pat position until the trade deadline. 2. Keuchel won't be in a Sox uniform in 2023. 3. The only way Jose signs for $20M anywhere is if he goes OPS at .850 or better this year. After Jose's comment upon spring training arrival, he becomes even more of a wildcard than he already has been. Abreu's leadership and clubhouse/dugout presence is a dynamic I wouldn't trifle with. If he is up for going more DH and days off and still driving in runs at a monster rate, I definitely bring him back for 2023 - but not at $20M. 4. Even if Moncada can insert 15-20 HR into an .825-.850 OPS he has real value. Yeah that $23M-$25M appears a stretch though. 5. IMO the Sox need an overhaul in MiLB pitching both in talent and coaching/development. Over the past several years the Org has done well in working up a 'hitting culture' throughout the system. Pitching --- not so much. You’re assuming we don’t extend Kimbrel in order to further prove we won that trade… 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 24 minutes ago, fathom said: If Giolito was a reliever, they would have given him that extra 50k I guess JR is also against Hollywood and “coastal elites” from Harvard Westlake. Did he have a film investment that went bad, lol? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KBX Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 46 minutes ago, chw42 said: Seems like this board has all but given up on talking about Conforto. I haven't heard much about him on Twitter the last few days either. Maybe Boras does really want him to sign a deal after the QO expires. Ever since that one dude mentioned on the radio that the Sox are not looking for a RF that came to a halt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 Just came to concede that the Sox aren’t getting Conforto. It’s been hard for me to accept the levels of incompetence with this organization, but after witnessing them ruining their relationship with their best pitcher over $50k, it’s very clear that either Rick Hahn is way over his head as GM, Tony has too much influence on roster decisions, or Jerry is meddling too much in baseball decisions (or some combo of the three). Regardless, the Sox seem totally content with the core they have in place and instead of supplementing with impact talent would prefer spending like drunk sailors on ancillary pieces. It’s an absolute shame that we will be rocking such a high payroll and haven’t really moved the needle. What a bizarre and epic failure of an offseason. 4 2 1 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Just came to concede that the Sox aren’t getting Conforto. It’s been hard for me to accept the levels of incompetence with this organization, but after witnessing them ruining their relationship with their best pitcher over $50k, it’s very clear that either Rick Hahn is way over his head as GM, Tony has too much influence on roster decisions, or Jerry is meddling too much in baseball decisions (or some combo of the three). Regardless, the Sox seem totally content with the core they have in place and instead of supplementing with impact talent would prefer spending like drunk sailors on ancillary pieces. It’s an absolute shame that we will be rocking such a high payroll and haven’t really moved the needle. What a bizarre and epic failure of an offseason. At this point, I think it would take an injury to an outfielder (or Abreu) for the Sox to be seriously interested. Edited March 23, 2022 by Bob Sacamano 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SoCalChiSox Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Just came to concede that the Sox aren’t getting Conforto. It’s been hard for me to accept the levels of incompetence with this organization, but after witnessing them ruining their relationship with their best pitcher over $50k, it’s very clear that either Rick Hahn is way over his head as GM, Tony has too much influence on roster decisions, or Jerry is meddling too much in baseball decisions (or some combo of the three). Regardless, the Sox seem totally content with the core they have in place and instead of supplementing with impact talent would prefer spending like drunk sailors on ancillary pieces. It’s an absolute shame that we will be rocking such a high payroll and haven’t really moved the needle. What a bizarre and epic failure of an offseason. Yep it's officially over. This team is despicable and beyond stupid. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 10 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Just came to concede that the Sox aren’t getting Conforto. It’s been hard for me to accept the levels of incompetence with this organization, but after witnessing them ruining their relationship with their best pitcher over $50k, it’s very clear that either Rick Hahn is way over his head as GM, Tony has too much influence on roster decisions, or Jerry is meddling too much in baseball decisions (or some combo of the three). Regardless, the Sox seem totally content with the core they have in place and instead of supplementing with impact talent would prefer spending like drunk sailors on ancillary pieces. It’s an absolute shame that we will be rocking such a high payroll and haven’t really moved the needle. What a bizarre and epic failure of an offseason. It happened. Hahn has finally broken Chicago White Sox. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 End of the day, I think I'm more mad at how stupidly they handled 2b/SP. There were so many "no duh" options to solve or help things, be it giving Rodon the QO to help improve this farm that doesn't allow hahn to get players he thinks he can, not trading for Wendle or signing Eduardo, etc. They can pull a rabbit out of their hat and trade for an SP and sign conforto but nothing will make me believe they aren't among the worst front offices in baseball anymore. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chw42 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 minute ago, bmags said: End of the day, I think I'm more mad at how stupidly they handled 2b/SP. There were so many "no duh" options to solve or help things, be it giving Rodon the QO to help improve this farm that doesn't allow hahn to get players he thinks he can, not trading for Wendle or signing Eduardo, etc. They can pull a rabbit out of their hat and trade for an SP and sign conforto but nothing will make me believe they aren't among the worst front offices in baseball anymore. Rodon at $18 million Escobar at $10 million vs. Harrison at $5.5 million Leury at $5.5 million Kimbrel at $16 million The fact that we took the 2nd option is baffling. This doesn't even include the other bullpen signings. These signings are basically interchangeable money-wise. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 minute ago, chw42 said: Rodon at $18 million Escobar at $10 million vs. Harrison at $5.5 million Leury at $5.5 million Kimbrel at $16 million The fact that we took the 2nd option is baffling. This doesn't even include the other bullpen signings. These signings are basically interchangeable money-wise. Even if they didn't want Rodon at $18, the idea that the "inefficient overpay" that would lead them to not want them at that price is funny when they pay $11mill to leury and harrison for production that absolutely should be able to be replaced with in-house talent. But they can't because they get less draft picks than the non-comp bal teams, get less INTL budget, and so...back to point A it's really important you either spend yourself to an advantage or be wise and get the extra picks back when you can! Analytics are helpful on the field, but they are super helpful in where to allocate time and money in your team building strategies and you can see how miserable hahn and co are at that year after year after year after year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, chw42 said: Rodon at $18 million Escobar at $10 million vs. Harrison at $5.5 million Leury at $5.5 million Kimbrel at $16 million The fact that we took the 2nd option is baffling. This doesn't even include the other bullpen signings. These signings are basically interchangeable money-wise. At the very least, you have the pick back in compensation for Rodon and that money to spend as you see fit… But I guess the club prefers us to believe they agreed NOT to attach it out of the goodness of JR’s heart. That seems hard to believe after how we abused Carlos all season long. I’m shocked that Boras didn’t make any noise about it, but the SFG contract must have been enough to get over it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 23 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Just came to concede that the Sox aren’t getting Conforto. It’s been hard for me to accept the levels of incompetence with this organization, but after witnessing them ruining their relationship with their best pitcher over $50k, it’s very clear that either Rick Hahn is way over his head as GM, Tony has too much influence on roster decisions, or Jerry is meddling too much in baseball decisions (or some combo of the three). Regardless, the Sox seem totally content with the core they have in place and instead of supplementing with impact talent would prefer spending like drunk sailors on ancillary pieces. It’s an absolute shame that we will be rocking such a high payroll and haven’t really moved the needle. What a bizarre and epic failure of an offseason. You aren't fooling me, this is your try at the reverse jinx isn't it ? " Once I conceded It's bound to happen !!!! " 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 minute ago, bmags said: Even if they didn't want Rodon at $18, the idea that the "inefficient overpay" that would lead them to not want them at that price is funny when they pay $11mill to leury and harrison for production that absolutely should be able to be replaced with in-house talent. But they can't because they get less draft picks than the non-comp bal teams, get less INTL budget, and so...back to point A it's really important you either spend yourself to an advantage or be wise and get the extra picks back when you can! Analytics are helpful on the field, but they are super helpful in where to allocate time and money in your team building strategies and you can see how miserable hahn and co are at that year after year after year after year Or they just looked at our past record with supplemental/second round draft choices and decided it was better not to even try…that even seems like a bridge too far, but we seem to have the same consistent philosophy about the intl. draft pool money on a yearly basis. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ShoeLessRob Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 22 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: At this point, I think it would take an injury to an outfielder (or Abreu) for the Sox to be seriously interested. Nah Nick Williams is still available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 1 minute ago, Bob Sacamano said: At this point, I think it would take an injury to an outfielder for the Sox to be seriously interested. Probably, it’s just appalling that we’ve gotten worst in baseball production out of RF for two straight years and are simply throwing a bunch of crap at the position and hoping for the best. It’s appalling that we traded a cost-controlled, 2 to 3 win 2B and are replacing him with a 34 year old UT infielder who hits from the right side. It’s appalling that we are doing nothing whatsoever to address our clear weakness against good RHP. It’s appalling that we are afraid to make long-term commitments to impact talent but have given out two of three total 3+ year contracts to relievers and utility guys this offseason. It’s appalling that we are going to lose a 5 win pitcher and think we can think we can replace his production with no external additions. It’s appalling we think we can rely on Dallas Keuchel to be 1/5 of our rotation despite deteriorating stuff and a K rate that is quickly approaching 5 per 9. It’s appalling that we think spending $50M on relievers is somehow a good allocation of our limited resources. And ultimately, it’s appalling that these clowns might squander an amazing opportunity to bring another championship to the south side. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Probably, it’s just appalling that we’ve gotten worst in baseball production out of RF for two straight years and are simply throwing a bunch of crap at the position and hoping for the best. It’s appalling that we traded a cost-controlled, 2 to 3 win 2B and are replacing him with a 34 year old UT infielder who hits from the right side. It’s appalling that we are doing nothing whatsoever to address our clear weakness against good RHP. It’s appalling that we are afraid to make long-term commitments to impact talent but have given out two of three total 3+ year contracts to relievers and utility guys this offseason. It’s appalling that we are going to lose a 5 win pitcher and think we can think we can replace his production with no external additions. It’s appalling we think we can rely on Dallas Keuchel to be 1/5 of our rotation despite deteriorating stuff and a K rate that is quickly approaching 5 per 9. It’s appalling that we think spending $50M on relievers is somehow a good allocation of our limited resources. And ultimately, it’s appalling that these clowns might squander an amazing opportunity to bring another championship to the south side. Jerry doesn’t care about winning. That is the sad but honest truth. The Sox will never win anything until he’s gone. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: You aren't fooling me, this is your try at the reverse jinx isn't it ? " Once I conceded It's bound to happen !!!! " It’s the onset of the official acceptance phase. ”But Kimbrel is ranked as the 8th best reliever, ahead of Chapman and Jansen!!” Let’s prove to all the naysayers we can make a square peg fit into a round hole (especially after all the quotes from TLR at the end of the Astros’ series). Knowing the White Sox, they might end of messing up Hendriks, too. You know he isn’t going to be happy if he blows 2-3 saves in April and May and starts hearing whispers. Might as well just convert him back to starting pitcher, while they’re doing more dumb things. I honestly think Liam would voluntarily cede the spot to Kimbrel, but boy what a mess that would be if Craig flopped again as closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said: You aren't fooling me, this is your try at the reverse jinx isn't it ? " Once I conceded It's bound to happen !!!! " No, they’ve officially broken me. I really thought we turned a corner when we starting acquiring players like Grandal & Lynn and pursued guys like Wheeler & Burnes. Felt like Rick Hahn had learned from his past mistakes and would focus his limited resources on acquiring impact talent. Instead, we just squandered $46M on relievers & utility guys and have completely ignored multiple major needs. Again, not sure if it’s Hahn or Tony/Jerry, but something is broken and we are blowing an amazing opportunity here. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: Probably, it’s just appalling that we’ve gotten worst in baseball production out of RF for two straight years and are simply throwing a bunch of crap at the position and hoping for the best. It’s appalling that we traded a cost-controlled, 2 to 3 win 2B and are replacing him with a 34 year old UT infielder who hits from the right side. It’s appalling that we are doing nothing whatsoever to address our clear weakness against good RHP. It’s appalling that we are afraid to make long-term commitments to impact talent but have given out two of three total 3+ year contracts to relievers and utility guys this offseason. It’s appalling that we are going to lose a 5 win pitcher and think we can think we can replace his production with no external additions. It’s appalling we think we can rely on Dallas Keuchel to be 1/5 of our rotation despite deteriorating stuff and a K rate that is quickly approaching 5 per 9. It’s appalling that we think spending $50M on relievers is somehow a good allocation of our limited resources. And ultimately, it’s appalling that these clowns might squander an amazing opportunity to bring another championship to the south side. At least now you know why I wanted Rodon so much. I figured he was one of a few FA's with high upside who could be had in the Reinsdorf price range. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 5 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: It’s the onset of the official acceptance phase. ”But Kimbrel is ranked as the 8th best reliever, ahead of Chapman and Jansen!!” Let’s prove to all the naysayers we can make a square peg fit into a round hole (especially after all the quotes from TLR at the end of the Astros’ series). Knowing the White Sox, they might end of messing up Hendriks, too. You know he isn’t going to be happy if he blows 2-3 saves in April and May and starts hearing whispers. Might as well just convert him back to starting pitcher, while they’re doing more dumb things. I honestly think Liam would voluntarily cede the spot to Kimbrel, but boy what a mess that would be if Craig flopped again as closer. I truly believe Kimbrel is a good reliever, but spending $16M on him and $16.5M on Graveman & Kelly doesn’t make any sense. It’s really fucking stupid when those dollars could be used on a left handed bat or SP. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 2 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: No, they’ve officially broken me. I really thought we turned a corner when we starting acquiring players like Grandal & Lynn and pursued guys like Wheeler & Burnes. Felt like Rick Hahn had learned from his past mistakes and would focus his limited resources on acquiring impact talent. Instead, we just squandered $46M on relievers & utility guys and have completely ignored multiple major needs. Again, not sure if it’s Hahn or Tony/Jerry, but something is broken and we are blowing an amazing opportunity here. I need a "sad" emoji for this post. I feel bad for you. Empathy , man, empathy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted March 23, 2022 Share Posted March 23, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said: Jerry doesn’t care about winning. That is the sad but honest truth. The Sox will never win anything until he’s gone. Just wait until we start hearing all the whispers about various logical but completely unsentimental reasons why we can’t make 32/33 year old Tim Anderson a lifetime White Sox entering the 2024 season…that’s the next shoe to drop after Giolito. It’s Mark Buehrle all over again. The irony is that his contract from the Marlins was only $4 million more over four seasons than his previous Sox contract. But we’ll probably keep sending Grandpa Abreu out there with $15-18 million contracts on a yearly basis in his late 30s. Vaughn might never get to play his natural position. Edited March 23, 2022 by caulfield12 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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