Kimbrel traded for AJ Pollock

[southsider2k5]

54 minutes ago, Polar Bear said:

What i don't get, why make this trade in the immediate aftermath of Crochet needing TJ...

Because Kimbrel was getting traded no matter what.

[Two-Gun Pete]

2 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

everyone would... but who is to say we'd have Suzuki if we never picked up Kimbrel.

And this is why I'm "Meh" about the whole thing. Yes, Pollock is better at RF than Kimbrel. And yes, Pollock is better at RF than Sheets/Vaughn. But none of these things should have been an option, IMO.

I, like many others here, hated the Kimbrel idea BEFORE he was acquired, while he was here, and when they stupidly picked up the option.

 

Spending time, money, and assets on things you don't need tends to fuck up your team, and your ability to improve it. For $2MM more than what Pollock would get if he performs well, they could have secured a proper RFer who is in his prime, rather than a grandpa who we HOPE will continue to kick Father Time's Ass.

 

We'll see. And, if Pollock does well, I'll gladly eat crow. If he sucks/gets injured, I'll continue beating the drum for everyone in the FO to get fired.

[turnin' two]

nevermind.

Edited April 1, 2022 by turnin' two

[southsider2k5]

44 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Yeah...I'm not sure I want to trade for another Oakland pitcher who's from the Chicago Suburbs. The last one didn't work out real well for us. 

Yeah, but the other was from Valpo, so screw him.

[michelangelosmonkey]

1 hour ago, ChiSox59 said:

Certainly will be a cohort of Sox talk that will lose their mind if Sheets is involved.

I'd love to keep Sheets around myself, but recognize Sox probably don't have the bullets to get it done without him.  Would still try to pry him loose without Sheets, but just seems like an A's guy to me. 

Is Sheets the Dane Dunning of position players?   Succeeded with SSS in favorable situations.  No amazing tools...but young and promising.   Doesn't really fit in the long term picture (Colas is the LH bat at a position we need).  When/if he gets traded Soxtalk will lose their minds.   

[chw42]

18 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Did Pollock even get injured 2 years ago?  I have no clue, but he played 55 games in the shortened season.

I don't think so. He was healthy all of 2020. 

[FoxForce2]

Almost all of the FG projections (excepting ZiPS), have 2022 Pollock PA above the numbers he put in each of the three seasons as a Dawjah. I'm not sure what they're basing the projections on.
2019-PA 342
2020-PA-210
2021-PA-422

AJ Pollock
Injuries 2018-2021 (From FoxSports)

09/04/2021	Hamstring	10-Day Injured List
08/20/2021	Back	Day-To-Day
05/14/2021	Hamstring	10-Day Injured List
05/07/2021	Hamstring	Day-To-Day
09/27/2019	Knee	Day-To-Day
08/05/2019	Groin	Day-To-Day
04/30/2019	Elbow	60-Day Injured List
05/15/2018	Fractured Left Thumb	10-Day Injured List
04/20/2018	Right Hand	Day-To-Day

Edited April 1, 2022 by FoxForce2

[Chicago White Sox]

45 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

I do like the possiblities this presents with AV in LF, Pollock in RF and Eloy at DH though.  Sox won't do it on a regular basis, but they should. 

Yes, but Pollock in LF & Engel in RF means no Vaughn in the lineup as Eloy would be the DH.  Engel should not be starting over Vaughn on a regular basis.

[Tnetennba]

13 minutes ago, mqr said:

Let's also not act like Conforto is without his warts

True.  And the mystery shoulder injury is a bit of a red flag too IMO.

Edited April 1, 2022 by Tnetennba

[ChiSox59]

Just now, Chicago White Sox said:

Yes, but Pollock in LF & Engel in RF means no Vaughn in the lineup as Eloy would be the DH.  Engel should not be starting over Vaughn on a regular basis.

Yes, we're on the same page.  In no event do I think AV should be anything less than a regular.  I just hope he gets a good amount of time in LF and Eloy at DH.  

[caulfield12]

6 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Sometimes the median is a better story teller than the mean. 

If someone plays 70%+ of his teams games in 4 seasons and 50% in one season, it's more likely he hits the 70% number than the 50% number. 

Who has any idea what Seiya Suzuki is going to do? How much have you watched him play? Maybe he turns out amazing, but I'm not going to act like I know much about him or that I've seen him play a lot and know how he projects. The last Japanese outfielder with a ton of hype that the Cubs signed to a long term deal went on to be bad, and if we're being honest... the history of Japanese position players in the US isn't all that great. 

But there was a three year age difference, and Suzuki is not a prototypical slappy looking hitter (neither was Fukudome, for that matter).  Totally different style of player.

But it always come down to the ability of Japanese players to adjust to 95-102 MPH pitching...when the average over there is upper 80s and low 90s.

And it did take Ohtani some time for  everything to click.  We don't have those two years to wait around.

Edited April 1, 2022 by caulfield12

[southsider2k5]

6 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why is Manaea going to cost considerably more than Bassitt or Gray?

Ding.

[chw42]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why is Manaea going to cost considerably more than Bassitt or Gray?

Supply and demand. Oakland pretty much holds the last 2 starting pitchers you can get. We really should have moved on Bassitt. 

[fathom]

14 minutes ago, mqr said:

Let's also not act like Conforto is without his warts

Did he get those at the bachelor party also?

[Chicago White Sox]

41 minutes ago, Baron said:

I mean...how much value does Burger actually have? 

Burger is projected as a 2 win player right now by ZiPS, so I’d argue a decent amount.  I mean the kid missed a ton of development and still came back with big numbers despite skipping two leagues.  Plus he got his body into shape where he can play a solid 3B.  He is not some throw in and you certainly don’t trade both him and Sheets for one year of a 3 win pitcher.

[mqr]

3 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

But there was a three year age difference, and Suzuki is not a slappy looking hitter.  Different style of player.

But it always come down to the ability of Japanese players to adjust to 95-102 MPH pitching...when the average over there is upper 80s and low 90s.

And it did take Ohtani some time for  everything to click.  We don't have those two years to wait around.

Suzuki will have to be 90% as good in MLB as he was in Japan to match Pollock's 2021. 

I don't like those odds.

Suzuki is just sexy because we haven't seen him. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mqr

[caulfield12]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Yes, but Pollock in LF & Engel in RF means no Vaughn in the lineup as Eloy would be the DH.  Engel should not be starting over Vaughn on a regular basis.

That would be worse than the Crochet pitching plan.  Let's try not to mess up every single first round draft pick this decade (well, other than Anderson).

[caulfield12]

1 minute ago, fathom said:

Did he get those at the bachelor party also?

Ewwww. TMI.

[maloney.adam]

 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

But there was a three year age difference, and Suzuki is not a slappy looking hitter.  Different style of player.

But it always come down to the ability of Japanese players to adjust to 95-102 MPH pitching...when the average over there is upper 80s and low 90s.

And it did take Ohtani some time for  everything to click.  We don't have those two years to wait around.

Suzuki isn't Ohtani; it's not even worth mentioning in the same breath or sentence. Ohtani was a generational talent that everyone knew was going to be a mega star from the time he was 16-17 years old. 

Suzuki is a guy putting up numbers that are slightly better than Kosuke's, albeit at a younger age, and don't get me wrong they are elite numbers. It just doesn't always directly translate to MLB success and there is certainly risk there. He could be great, but I'm not going to pretend that I know one way or another.

[Two-Gun Pete]

5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Sometimes the median is a better story teller than the mean. 

If someone plays 70%+ of his teams games in 4 seasons and 50% in one season, it's more likely he hits the 70% number than the 50% number. 

Who has any idea what Seiya Suzuki is going to do? How much have you watched him play? Maybe he turns out amazing, but I'm not going to act like I know much about him or that I've seen him play a lot and know how he projects. The last Japanese outfielder with a ton of hype that the Cubs signed to a long term deal went on to be bad, and if we're being honest... the history of Japanese position players in the US isn't all that great. 

Fair on the median v mean, but calling my post "misleading" is kinda BS. It is factual that Pollock has only averaged 107 games played over the past 5 years. And sure, he "possibly" could get healthier as he ages, but I doubt it.

 

And yes, while Suzuki is a gamble, so too is Pollock. For a mere $2MM more, I'll gamble on the guy whose bat profiles like Matsui [look it up], and who's won 5 Gold Gloves in Japan. If healthy, I think we can agree that defense would translate pretty easily from NPB to here. That alone would make him worth ~1.5 fWAR. If he approximates his ZIPs projections, he's a star.

And comparing the best position player to come over since Ichiro to Fukudome is silly. Suzuki is an absolute star, and 27; Fukudome was "good, but not a star," 30 years old, and pre-injured. The two are nothing alike.

[FoxForce2]

3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Burger is projected as a 2 win player right now by ZiPS, so I’d argue a decent amount.  I mean the kid missed a ton of development and still came back with big numbers despite skipping two leagues.  Plus he got his body into shape where he can play a solid 3B.  He is not some throw in and you certainly don’t trade both him and Sheets for one year of a 3 win pitcher.

But do you trade them both for 3-5 years of an extended Manaea?

Edited April 1, 2022 by FoxForce2

[southsider2k5]

2 minutes ago, maloney.adam said:

 

I will give the guy credit.  He kept his mouth shut and said all of the right things when he had to.

[Two-Gun Pete]

1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Suzuki isn't Ohtani; it's not even worth mentioning in the same breath or sentence. Ohtani was a generational talent that everyone knew was going to be a mega star from the time he was 16-17 years old. 

 Suzuki is a guy putting up numbers that are slightly better than Kosuke's, albeit at a younger age, and don't get me wrong they are elite numbers. It just doesn't always directly translate to MLB success and there is certainly risk there. He could be great, but I'm not going to pretend that I know one way or another.

Bull. Suzuki is putting up Matsui numbers, at 27 years old. He also comes with 5 gold gloves.

 

Comparing him to Fukudome is a stretch.

[chw42]

1 minute ago, FoxForce2 said:

But do you trade them both for 3-5 years of an extended Manaea?

Manaea can easily get the deal Eduardo Rodriguez got this off-season if he just pitches well this season. I don't seem him doing an extension with us, especially when Boras is his client.