Kimbrel traded for AJ Pollock

[michelangelosmonkey]

2 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

I think if both Cespedes and Colas can both play at an MLB level that will really help us free up cash for extending the window. That would actually be an elite defensive OF too. You could also then slide Eloy to DH and keep him out of the field entirely with Vaughn at first. 

It's just an issue of whether we only need this 1 yr bridge or if it will take longer

There is this suggestion that Cespedes was TERRIBLE last year.  He put up an .800+ OPS, stole 18 bases in half a season and has a cannon of an arm (60 grade).  He had missed nearly two years of playing baseball and It was his first time in the US and we had this COVID craziness going on and he did pretty darn good.  OK, he was terrible in the AFL..but that was a dozen and a half games.   He strikes out way too often...but pedigree and history suggests he could be coming soon.  And Colas??  Man read some of the scouting stuff from Getz and Barkett "He’s got some explosive power, some big-time, upper-deck, light-tower power. He can do it to all fields".  He's our lefty.  Even Keith Law said nice things about him.   OK, prospects flame out but these guys are about extending the window.  Imagine this outfield with Robert, Cespedes and Colas each plus defenders, each with cannons, each hitting 30 home runs.   Dream about your Comforto's and his past with the Mets...this is what I like to dream of.    

[SoxAce]

Bellinger looks completely broken. I would've probably taken Pollock over him anyways.

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, FoxForce2 said:

And yes, the extension/new contract on Manaea is the trick isn't it? I like Burger but I'd say he's just Sox-blocked at this point. Sheets LHB is pretty valuable to this team, tough to let him go at this point. Burger+?? might be worth at least a look  by both sides.

I’d trade one of them plus other things for Manaea, but just not both of them when it’s still very likely one of them could see a decent amount of playing time this year.  And I think both is a massive overpay relative to what other rentals have gone for IMO.

[SoCalChiSox]

1 minute ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

There is this suggestion that Cespedes was TERRIBLE last year.  He put up an .800+ OPS, stole 18 bases in half a season and has a cannon of an arm (60 grade).  He had missed nearly two years of playing baseball and It was his first time in the US and we had this COVID craziness going on and he did pretty darn good.  OK, he was terrible in the AFL..but that was a dozen and a half games.   He strikes out way too often...but pedigree and history suggests he could be coming soon.  And Colas??  Man read some of the scouting stuff from Getz and Barkett "He’s got some explosive power, some big-time, upper-deck, light-tower power. He can do it to all fields".  He's our lefty.  Even Keith Law said nice things about him.   OK, prospects flame out but these guys are about extending the window.  Imagine this outfield with Robert, Cespedes and Colas each plus defenders, each with cannons, each hitting 30 home runs.   Dream about your Comforto's and his past with the Mets...this is what I like to dream of.    

The best part is the AAV for that OF would be like 13.5m in total combined for a few years. Three positions filled with good offensive and defensive players and basically no money would be so huge, esp since we aren't going to go into the tax.

[michelangelosmonkey]

5 minutes ago, SoCalChiSox said:

The best part is the AAV for that OF would be like 13.5m in total combined for a few years. Three positions filled with good offensive and defensive players and basically no money would be so huge, esp since we aren't going to go into the tax.

Plus they are all born within 12 months of each other...Robert being the old man of the group at 24.  They won't even be ENTERING their prime for three years...a point where half Soxtalk thinks our window will be over.    

[FoxForce2]

8 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I’d trade one of them plus other things for Manaea, but just not both of them when it’s still very likely one of them could see a decent amount of playing time this year.  And I think both is a massive overpay relative to what other rentals have gone for IMO.

Heh - considering how Moncada has looked this spring...
But no - Manaea as a rental is a different matter than Manaea as a 3-5 guy.

[VAfan]

1 hour ago, michelangelosmonkey said:

Is Sheets the Dane Dunning of position players?   Succeeded with SSS in favorable situations.  No amazing tools...but young and promising.   Doesn't really fit in the long term picture (Colas is the LH bat at a position we need).  When/if he gets traded Soxtalk will lose their minds.   

NO.  Sheets put up a 143 wRC+ as a rookie against right handers last year.  He's cheap and controlled, and one of the few lefty power guys the Sox have.  Maybe pitchers figure him out, but it seems more likely he's going to continue to improve.   

[soxfan3530]

If it's truly a bidding war for Manaea, I think I would just go into the season with what he have (Gio, Lynn, Cease, Kopech, Kuechel, using ReyLo when needed) and waiting til later in the season. Once we get closer to the deadline, more pitchers will become available and I just don't like the idea of giving up a lot of bullets for a guy like Manaea. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by soxfan3530

[Chick Mercedes]

4 hours ago, Baron said:

Well our outfield just got alot better. He hasn't spent much time in RF but he's been serviceable in the outfield in general the past few years.

Not a right field arm tho

[chw42]

4 minutes ago, soxfan3530 said:

If it's truly a bidding war for Manaea, I think I would just go into the season with what he have (Gio, Lynn, Cease, Kopech, Kuechel, using ReyLo when needed) and waiting til later in the season. Once we get closer to the deadline, more pitchers will become available and I just don't like the idea of giving up a lot of bullets for a guy like Manaea. 

Manaea isn't worth overpaying for, IMO. If it's the right price, we should take it. But if it's gonna be well over his value in terms of asking price, we should move on. 

[Chick Mercedes]

4 hours ago, Quin said:

Rick Hahn finally getting revenge for not getting to hire Hinch. I like to imagine he was prepared to roll with internal options for right field, heard TLR's comments and just went "oh, fuck off."

Tony gets to be proven wrong at least 100 games this season. And that’s  just about right field

[michelangelosmonkey]

4 minutes ago, VAfan said:

NO.  Sheets put up a 143 wRC+ as a rookie against right handers last year.  He's cheap and controlled, and one of the few lefty power guys the Sox have.  Maybe pitchers figure him out, but it seems more likely he's going to continue to improve.   

Dunning was also cheap and controllable.  I think Dane Dunning will figure it out too.  I just don't think he's going to be a star and we traded him for a player that is one.   I'm not sure how Sheets fits in long term...yes he's a lefty but Vaughn is your long term 1B guy, Eloy long term DH and Colas your long term lefty bat.   I don't mind him sticking with him as lefty off the bench but if you can use him to get a really solid left handed starter...I'm ok with that.   

[pcq]

Keuchel hitless so far. 

[FoxForce2]

8 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Manaea isn't worth overpaying for, IMO. If it's the right price, we should take it. But if it's gonna be well over his value in terms of asking price, we should move on. 

Why won't this site allow a simple deletion of a post?

Edited April 1, 2022 by FoxForce2

[SoCalChiSox]

4 minutes ago, chw42 said:

Manaea isn't worth overpaying for, IMO. If it's the right price, we should take it. But if it's gonna be well over his value in terms of asking price, we should move on. 

I really don't want to give up Sheets, Ramos and Thompson in what fathom was suggesting. Ramos could be very valuable by the deadline and actually could be the future 2B not too long from now.

[FoxForce2]

10 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

Not a right field arm tho

Pollock has at least competent range, vision and glove in the OF - he should be able to hit cut-off men with some velocity and accuracy. Engel is clearly a better fielder. Some kind of platoon might just work.

[GermanSoxFan]

I heard from a dodgers fan who gets some info here and there that a Bellinger for Kimbrel swap had legs, so in that sense I am disappointed lol.

But this is an amazing move that will help the Sox a lot, even if you only get 100ish games out of Pollock.

[mqr]

13 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

Not a right field arm tho

He has a better arm than Vaughn and Sheets surely.

Having a cannon in right is much more a "nice to have" than the "must have" people tend to make it seem. 

Edited April 1, 2022 by mqr

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, mqr said:

He has a better arm than Vaughn and Sheets surely.

Fangraphs graded Vaughn's year last year in LF as having a better throwing arm than any of Pollock's previous 3 seasons in LF.

He's been a worse LF than Vaughn last year and a decent CF outside of a horrid 2019. I'll let you figure out how that works.

[FoxForce2]

3 minutes ago, mqr said:

He has a better arm than Vaughn and Sheets surely.

Having a cannon in right is much more a "nice to have" than the "must have" people tend to make it seem. 

Pollock = good bat. OK field.
Engel = very good field. OK bat.

Works for me. Until it doesn't.

[KipWellsFan]

Team	G	PA	HR	R	RBI	SB	BB%	K%	ISO	BABIP	AVG	OBP	SLG	wOBA	wRC+	BsR	WAR
ZiPS DC	120	518	24	65	86	8	6.2%	20.7%	.216	.295	.268	.321	.484	.339	114	0.6	2.2
THE BAT X	110	430	21	63	65	6	7.1%	20.7%	.227	.299	.271	.331	.498	.351	122	0.1	2.1
THE BAT	110	430	22	63	65	6	7.1%	20.5%	.229	.292	.267	.328	.496	.348	120	0.2	2.0
ATC	110	430	21	57	65	7	6.9%	20.2%	.221	.296	.270	.328	.491	.347	119	0.1	1.8
FGDC	120	518	24	68	81	8	6.5%	20.6%	.216	.291	.265	.320	.480	.338	113	0.2	2.0
Steamer	120	466	22	64	68	7	6.9%	20.5%	.215	.287	.261	.320	.476	.337	113	-0.2	1.4
ZiPS	108	405	19	51	67	6	6.2%	20.7%	.216	.295	.268	.321	.484	.339	114	0.5	1.7

Edited April 1, 2022 by KipWellsFan
All the projections for AJP in 2022 from Fangraphs.

[mqr]

1 minute ago, FoxForce2 said:

Pollock = good bat. OK field.
Engel = very good field. OK bat.

Works for me. Until it doesn't.

Pretty much, you're gonna see a lot of Adam Engel in the 8th and 9th

[FoxForce2]

1 minute ago, KipWellsFan said:

Team	G	PA	HR	R	RBI	SB	BB%	K%	ISO	BABIP	AVG	OBP	SLG	wOBA	wRC+	BsR	WAR
ZiPS DC	120	518	24	65	86	8	6.2%	20.7%	.216	.295	.268	.321	.484	.339	114	0.6	2.2
THE BAT X	110	430	21	63	65	6	7.1%	20.7%	.227	.299	.271	.331	.498	.351	122	0.1	2.1
THE BAT	110	430	22	63	65	6	7.1%	20.5%	.229	.292	.267	.328	.496	.348	120	0.2	2.0
ATC	110	430	21	57	65	7	6.9%	20.2%	.221	.296	.270	.328	.491	.347	119	0.1	1.8
FGDC	120	518	24	68	81	8	6.5%	20.6%	.216	.291	.265	.320	.480	.338	113	0.2	2.0
Steamer	120	466	22	64	68	7	6.9%	20.5%	.215	.287	.261	.320	.476	.337	113	-0.2	1.4
ZiPS	108	405	19	51	67	6	6.2%	20.7%	.216	.295	.268	.321	.484	.339	114	0.5	1.7

I looked at that earlier. All but ZiPS have Pollock getting more PA than last year, or any of the past three years for that matter. Not sure what the reasoning is on that.

[Chick Mercedes]

6 minutes ago, mqr said:

He has a better arm than Vaughn and Sheets surely.

Having a cannon in right is much more a "nice to have" than the "must have" people tend to make it seem. 

Ill need to think about that.
 

At least subbing for Eloy in late innings becomes easier plugging in Engel and shifting AJ into left

[chw42]

2 minutes ago, mqr said:

Pretty much, you're gonna see a lot of Adam Engel in the 8th and 9th

Engel in RF, Pollock moves to LF for Eloy.