Kimbrel traded for AJ Pollock

[SoxBlanco]

I’ll set the fake line for Kimbrel’s saves at 36.5. 

You guys taking the over or under?

[Harold's Leg Lift]

2 minutes ago, bmags said:

Pollock’s name is Allen Lorenz Pollock but goes by AJ. Curious.

Allen Junior

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

I’ll set the fake line for Kimbrel’s saves at 36.5. 

You guys taking the over or under?

Under

[tray]

1 hour ago, Dick Allen said:

So the Dodgers were offering Bellinger? 

 

Do you think the Dodgers considered Bellinger untouchable? LaD have Mookie in RF. Bellingers had a down year and a slow ST and there here have been rumors about the Dodgers possibly wanting to trade Bellinger for over a year.

Thus deal worked out financially for the Dodgers who took about as much off the books as they are putting back.

Hahn probably felt he had to make a move before the season started figuring that Kimbrel could destroy his value with a couple of weak performances or an arm injury.  

There is some irony in disposing Kimbrel with a similar logic than that used to acquire him - a similar hope than an aging player has enough juice left to put the WSox over the top. That is the same strategy used to acquire James Shields. The final piece to a puzzle is often elusive.

[CentralChamps21]

11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Under

I agree. Dodgers figure to have a lot of games where they're ahead by so much it's not a save situation.

[Two-Gun Pete]

14 hours ago, JTB said:

No you won’t.

Nah, I will. A year ago in ST, I doubted the previous 2-legged Hippo Carlos Rodon to take care of his body and to throw strikes. I was wrong about that, and thats fine.

 

With Pollock, I think some here are being a bit irrationally exuberant. Yes, Pollock can play OF, but he's a LF/CF, not a RF. He's oft-injured, and he's old. So while its "better" that he's here than Kimbrel being here, he's not exactly an ideal fit.

 

So, will others currently throwing roses at RH's feet for this move likewise eat crow if/when Pollock plays poorly, or his a poor fit, or gets injured?

We'll see.

[ptatc]

9 minutes ago, tray said:

Do you think the Dodgers considered Bellinger untouchable? LaD have Mookie in RF. Bellingers had a down year and a slow ST and there here have been rumors about the Dodgers possibly wanting to trade Bellinger for over a year.

Thus deal worked out financially for the Dodgers who took about as much off the books as they are putting back.

Hahn probably felt he had to make a move before the season started figuring that Kimbrel could destroy his value with a couple of weak performances or an arm injury.  

There is some irony in disposing Kimbrel with a similar logic than that used to acquire him - a similar hope than an aging player has enough juice left to put the WSox over the top. That is the same strategy used to acquire James Shields. The final piece to a puzzle is often elusive.

This is a little revionist history. Kimbrel was not an aging player with the hope he could squeeze a little more out of him at the trade deadline last year. He was by far the best relief pitcher on the market.

[Chick Mercedes]

12 minutes ago, tray said:

 

There is some irony in disposing Kimbrel with a similar logic than that used to acquire him - a similar hope than an aging player has enough juice left to put the WSox over the top. That is the same strategy used to acquire James Shields. The final piece to a puzzle is often elusive.

At least it finally became old for old. The Sox/Hahn aren’t good at this. I vote that they stop trying, and keep their powders dry.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

1 hour ago, Chick Mercedes said:

Madrigal would have been having decent seasons and helping win playoffs series for 10+ years.. There is no way to fix this mess, just try to mitigate damage. 

Yeah that didn’t happen when he was here at least. Him booting that ball in game 2 in Oakland was a big reason why the Sox lost that game (and subsequently the series). Not to mention he seemingly can’t stay healthy. Obviously it wasn’t a good trade but some of you act like is a star. He is not.

[SoxBlanco]

2 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Nah, I will. A year ago in ST, I doubted the previous 2-legged Hippo Carlos Rodon to take care of his body and to throw strikes. I was wrong about that, and thats fine.

 

With Pollock, I think some here are being a bit irrationally exuberant. Yes, Pollock can play OF, but he's a LF/CF, not a RF. He's oft-injured, and he's old. So while its "better" that he's here than Kimbrel being here, he's not exactly an ideal fit.

 

So, will others currently throwing roses at RH's feet for this move likewise eat crow if/when Pollock plays poorly, or his a poor fit, or gets injured?

We'll see.

Many people here thought it was stupid to pick up Kimbrel’s option. For those people, anything Pollock gives us should be a bonus. 

Of course, those people will counter by saying they would have signed a better RF after declining Kimbrel’s option. So we should be comparing Pollock’s numbers to Conforto’s or Castellanos’ or Suzuki’s numbers and then compare the contracts of all of them. 

Also, if one of our prospects (Colas, Cespedes, etc) is playing RF in 2024, then we should compare his stats and contract to the numbers of the RF that was preferred.

[Marqhead]

44 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Honestly, meh.  He wouldn’t have closed here, and he was terrible in his short tenure, so it honestly doesn’t bother me if he’s successful elsewhere.  I’m also not overly attached to Madrigal as to be upset by the trade any longer.  I’m just relieved that I never have to watch Kimbrel blow another game in the 8th for my favourite team. 

I was a little more attached to Madrigal than most and hated the trade at the time for that reason, but yeah in general that ship has sailed. 
 

I am also relieved to never have to watch him on our team again, but it will sting a little if he suddenly returns to form. I will be slightly rooting against him for that reason. Though to be honest I never really liked him before he got here. 

[Chick Mercedes]

5 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Yeah that didn’t happen when he was here at least. Him booting that ball in game 2 in Oakland was a big reason why the Sox lost that game (and subsequently the series). Not to mention he seemingly can’t stay healthy. Obviously it wasn’t a good trade but some of you act like is a star. He is not.

I call it an asset wasted. The Sox do have a lot of assets, but they aren’t that team with an endless pipeline enough so they can be this frivolous. 

[Texsox]

47 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

There's no number because that prop doesn't really exist so its pretty much a blanket statement.

While we're at it taking fake lines, I'll take kimbrels postseason era over. 

More fake lines. I'll take Kimbrels total postseason innings over Liam's total postseason innings. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

 

 

With Pollock, I think some here are being a bit irrationally exuberant. Yes, Pollock can play OF, but he's a LF/CF, not a RF. He's oft-injured, and he's old. So while its "better" that he's here than Kimbrel being here, he's not exactly an ideal fit.

 

I don't think it's irrational exuberance. For one, some people, like me, didn't want to move Hendriks to any other role. Plus I thought that the Kiimbrel move was to dump his salary , get very little in return then try to fix RF. Hahn did it in one fell swoop. They traded a guy without a position to do his best for a similarly aged player who fits better as a RF than Kimbrel does as a set up guy.

If it the ideal fit ? No, but it's a fit that brings a professional hitter who is still pretty good and increases OF depth and team depth especially in light of the Vaughn injury for the early part of the season. It also reduces Leury ,Vaughn and Sheet's OF roles. So while Pollock may not have the arm for RF he is still probably a better defensive OF than what was going to be trotted out there.

[Two-Gun Pete]

22 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Many people here thought it was stupid to pick up Kimbrel’s option. For those people, anything Pollock gives us should be a bonus. 

Of course, those people will counter by saying they would have signed a better RF after declining Kimbrel’s option. So we should be comparing Pollock’s numbers to Conforto’s or Castellanos’ or Suzuki’s numbers and then compare the contracts of all of them. 

Also, if one of our prospects (Colas, Cespedes, etc) is playing RF in 2024, then we should compare his stats and contract to the numbers of the RF that was preferred.

I was one of those people who thought it was stupid to trade for him in the first place, and then to pick up his option.

I also don't care what Colas or Cespedes do or don't do in the future, because I believe that this competitive window lasts only as long as Giolito is here. (IOW, through 2023.)

So, yes, they could have gotten a better-fitting player who is young enough to not be a serious injury/age-related decline risk. And, for not much more on an AAV basis.

 

We'll see.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Two-Gun Pete

[Two-Gun Pete]

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

1. I don't think it's irrational exuberance. 

2. If it the ideal fit ?

3. So while Pollock may not have the arm for RF he is still probably a better defensive OF than what was going to be trotted out there.

1. I think that posters' relief at not having Kimbrel here is overstating the positive here. We've seen old man acquisitions fall on their faces every year since Edwin Encarnacion. We've seen NL types forget how to hit when they come here. We've seen oft-injured guys remain injured. So, that's why I'm "meh" about this.

2. No, it isn't. For roughly the same AAV, there could have been a better fit. For less cash, there could have been a better fit. It was ill-conceived to acquire Kimbrel in the first place, and it was ego that drove them to pick up his option.

3. Sure. Hes at least an OF, so there's that. But everyone faster than Konerko will run on him, that is, as long as he stays healthy.

[YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES!]

11 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

I call it an asset wasted. The Sox do have a lot of assets, but they aren’t that team with an endless pipeline enough so they can be this frivolous. 

They shouldn’t have drafted him at all. His ceiling simply isn’t high enough for a #4 pick.

[Dick Allen]

15 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

Many people here thought it was stupid to pick up Kimbrel’s option. For those people, anything Pollock gives us should be a bonus. 

Of course, those people will counter by saying they would have signed a better RF after declining Kimbrel’s option. So we should be comparing Pollock’s numbers to Conforto’s or Castellanos’ or Suzuki’s numbers and then compare the contracts of all of them. 

Also, if one of our prospects (Colas, Cespedes, etc) is playing RF in 2024, then we should compare his stats and contract to the numbers of the RF that was preferred.

Should be, but remember they would have had $15 million to play with. It's not a bad return especially since the clock was ticking.

[Dick Allen]

20 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

Yeah that didn’t happen when he was here at least. Him booting that ball in game 2 in Oakland was a big reason why the Sox lost that game (and subsequently the series). Not to mention he seemingly can’t stay healthy. Obviously it wasn’t a good trade but some of you act like is a star. He is not.

His last 20 gamezwith the Sox his wrc+ was 171. Total cherry picking, but he was coming along pretty nicely.

[Dick Allen]

31 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

Nah, I will. A year ago in ST, I doubted the previous 2-legged Hippo Carlos Rodon to take care of his body and to throw strikes. I was wrong about that, and thats fine.

 

With Pollock, I think some here are being a bit irrationally exuberant. Yes, Pollock can play OF, but he's a LF/CF, not a RF. He's oft-injured, and he's old. So while its "better" that he's here than Kimbrel being here, he's not exactly an ideal fit.

 

So, will others currently throwing roses at RH's feet for this move likewise eat crow if/when Pollock plays poorly, or his a poor fit, or gets injured?

We'll see.

How come you aren't bitching about Lance Lynn? He's older than Kimbrel.

[southsider2k5]

1 hour ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

I don't bet on baseball but if I did I'd bet the house on the over on Kimbrel saves.  

Yeah, I have zero doubt that Kimbrel has a big season and a significant portion of Sox fans is pissed about it at some point. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

10 minutes ago, Two-Gun Pete said:

1. I think that posters' relief at not having Kimbrel here is overstating the positive here. We've seen old man acquisitions fall on their faces every year since Edwin Encarnacion. We've seen NL types forget how to hit when they come here. We've seen oft-injured guys remain injured. So, that's why I'm "meh" about this.

2. No, it isn't. For roughly the same AAV, there could have been a better fit. For less cash, there could have been a better fit. It was ill-conceived to acquire Kimbrel in the first place, and it was ego that drove them to pick up his option.

3. Sure. Hes at least an OF, so there's that. But everyone faster than Konerko will run on him, that is, as long as he stays healthy.

Look I know you wanted Suzuki but let it go, just like you should let go of picking up Kimbrel's option . I agree with you there. I thought it was about pride and would take a few different moves to make that work. But in the end it made the team better defensively and depth wise. Kimbrel,. in a bad role didn't accomplish any of those things.

For less cash a better fit ? Like who ? This better fit was what , LH, younger , cost less ,had a good arm,played RF more in the past, doesn't get hurt and could play good defense ? Because that's what you are suggesting.

Edited April 2, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[Chick Mercedes]

32 minutes ago, YouCanPutItOnTheBoardYES! said:

They shouldn’t have drafted him at all. His ceiling simply isn’t high enough for a #4 pick.

Maybe not conceptually, but in context, that draft wasn’t a good one. Seemed like a 3 and a half player draft at the top. Madrigal having a fairly high enough floor at 4 was considerable. Kelenic was an upside roll of the dice I liked. Carter Stewart had the exiting spin rate. India didn’t fit the profile you are looking for either. Again, Madrigal’s floor was considerable in a meh draft.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Chick Mercedes

[Two-Gun Pete]

2 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

How come you aren't bitching about Lance Lynn? He's older than Kimbrel.

When he was acquired, I was stupid enough to believe RH's bullshit about "multiple championships;" I assumed he was either telling us the truth, or speaking about WS championships, not ALC championships. 

 

That said, there was a need for Lynn in the rotation, and he was good at his job when he was acquired. For Kimbrel, apart from a few lucky months in the 1st half of 21, Kimbrel had generally sucked at baseball with the scrubs. There also was zero need for him, whatsoever.

So, they're nothing alike.

 

That said, I'll admit that I'm ageist with respect to professional athletes. I never want to acquire any player who is >32 years old; I'm comfortable with the risk of missing once or twice, rather than acquiring Encarnacion/Eaton/Harrison.

[Chicago White Sox]

10 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

How come you aren't bitching about Lance Lynn? He's older than Kimbrel.

He calls him a “fat fuck” all the time and thinks his knees are going to breakdown any second.