1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He's been the log jam holding up moving everybody down a position on the defensive spectrum for too long. He should honestly be traded if the Sox are under .500 in early August.

And it's his fault that's all the Sox drafted?

5 minutes ago, Quin said:

1. Re-sign Abreu.
2. Cold April.
3. Ron makes thread about Abreu's age / performance as Father Time is undefeated.
4. Abreu begins to warm up in May.
5. Someone bumps Ron's thread.
6. Abreu gets red hot in June.
7. All of us: "Yeah, we have a log jam, but like, we need this bat."
8. Repeat the cycle until Abreu gets a number retirement ceremony, statue, etc.
9. Begin cycle anew with Andrew Vaughn and the next White Sox first baseman.

Probably a guy they drafted to play another position and realize they are bad at catching a baseball.    

16 minutes ago, Squirmin' for Yermin said:

You have to let him walk assuming our current roster construction.  We have 4 DH/1B.  Eloy you can't trade cuz his value has plummeted, Vaughn you wouldn't trade cuz his value is high.  Grandal you are likely stuck with the contract, and Abreu is 2 years from retirement/falling off a cliff.  I'd let him go and bring someone in that helps us balance more.

Yes but how many of those DH/1B players are performing anywhere near as good as Abreu? Getting rid of one of the few productive bats on the grounds that other lesser players play in his position strikes me as odd. Vaughn may well produce better in time but at the moment Abreu is worth another year, because Eloy may well never find it and Grandal is a worse hitter, appears to be fading and more injury prone.

1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said:

He's been the log jam holding up moving everybody down a position on the defensive spectrum for too long. He should honestly be traded if the Sox are under .500 in early August.

Maybe he is a defensive 'log jam' but he is one of the few Sox bats that has produced regularly (except in April), if he would DH next season I would definitely have him back. I would rather see him DH ing than some of the players TLR has trotted out at DH this season.

There are three reasons to move Jose: 

1. Great trade value to get quality prospects that can help us down the road, especially since Jose is on a hot steak! 

2. He will be 36 next season. At what point does his production go down? Do you wait until you get little or nothing back for him or worst case he leaves as a free agent and we get nothing? Now is the time to make the trade while we can get some good prospects back. The fact is Jose is on target to hit 21 HR's and 77 RBI's which would be his lowest totals in his 10 seasons here, other than the 2020 pandemic 60 game season. 

3. We are already playing two first baseman out of position. It's about Andrew Vaughn plays full time at first base. 

 

15 minutes ago, Chimpton said:

Maybe he is a defensive 'log jam' but he is one of the few Sox bats that has produced regularly (except in April), if he would DH next season I would definitely have him back. I would rather see him DH ing than some of the players TLR has trotted out at DH this season.

I agree, problem is Jose refuses to DH full time or even part time. And yet the Sox have built a roster that almost requires him to full time DH in order to get the most out of it. So yea, it's a shit situation, one they shouldn't be in, but there is seemingly no chance of him agreeing to be a full time DH and he's going to be a FA; if the squad isn't competitive for the division with ~60 or so games left, get what you can for him and retool for next year.

Edited July 5, 20223 yr by chitownsportsfan

The argument for keeping Abreu is that you can hide Vaughn in LF and Jimenez at DH. 

I'd still let Abreu go and go:

Sheets-1B

Vaughn-LF 

Jimenez-DH

Edited July 5, 20223 yr by Jack Parkman

Yes, on a year-to-year basis. 

If we find ourselves in a position to trade him later this month, I would probably ask him if he would like the chance to finish the season with a contender and then talk in the off-season.

5 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

The argument for keeping Abreu is that you can hide Vaughn in LF and Jimenez at DH. 

I'd still let Abreu go and go:

Sheets-1B

Vaughn-LF 

Jimenez-DH

If I’m moving on from Abreu, it’s not to fit Sheets into the lineup that is for sure.

Edited July 5, 20223 yr by Bob Sacamano

5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

If I’m moving on from Abreu, it’s not fit Sheets into the lineup that is for sure.

I agree, but it still gives the option for Vaughn to play 1B or LF. 

Whatever Abreu costs would be better spent on someone like Nimmo. 

Also, we have to be prepared for Pollock to be back next year on his $10M player option. Hopefully they can trade him in a month or so. 

The point is, there are better ways to allocate payroll than on Abreu, when they have 4 players that are capable at 1B/DH in Vaughn, Burger, Jimenez and Sheets(if he keeps up his improvements since returning from Charlotte) 

Edited July 5, 20223 yr by Jack Parkman

9 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I agree, but it still gives the option for Vaughn to play 1B or LF. 

Whatever Abreu costs would be better spent on someone like Nimmo. 

Also, we have to be prepared for Pollock to be back next year on his $10M player option. Hopefully they can trade him in a month or so. 

The point is, there are better ways to allocate payroll than on Abreu, when they have 4 players that are capable at 1B/DH in Vaughn, Burger, Jimenez and Sheets(if he keeps up his improvements since returning from Charlotte) 

I think Pollock coming back is becoming more likely. He’s prob not gonna reject 1 year $11-12M ($1M escalators every 50 PA starting with 400) unless he has a huge 2nd half, even with the $5M buyout. Best case is he catches fire and a multi year deal starts to look realistic, but we’re a ways away from that right now. 

I love Pito and his loyalty to this shitty org shouldn't just be tossed to the curb.  But at his age he has to know his days as an everyday player are numbered.  He is welcome back with open arms, but its only fair he's paid he would get on the open market.  Year to year at low dollars, I think there is a spot for him.  Beyond that I just don't know.

Abreu may be able to hit for another 5 years.  That said, it's probably time to move on. Corner infield isn't in short supply in this org.

Re FAs, the problem is that they sign FAs for ancillary spots, like utility infielder and relief pitching.  These are spots that successful org. fill mostly internally; and for sure they WhiteSox could fill their utility positions internally.  They would have some trouble filling a pen internally, which is unfortunate considering the  draft capital the FO spends on relief pitching. 
And the other problem with FA, is that  the White Sox signed few objectively good players in their prime.    Grandal's done okay; Dunn failed.  Keuchel was ?able when signed (and clearly past his peak), and he did have 1 good season for the Sox. But there haven't been many.  When you sign 2nd and 3rd tier talent, that's what you will get.

Edited July 5, 20223 yr by GreenSox

He's only going to get older.

If Abreu is back, Vaughn will never develop defensively at 1B. Abreu barely DH's as it is and likely won't or refuse in the future. 

5 minutes ago, GreenSox said:

Abreu may be able to hit for another 5 years.  That said, it's probably time to move on. Corner infield isn't in short supply in this org.

Re FAs, the problem is that they sign FAs for ancillary spots, like utility infielder and relief pitching.  These are spots that successful org. fill mostly internally; and for sure they WhiteSox could fill their utility positions internally.  They would have some trouble filling a pen internally, which is unfortunate considering the  draft capital the FO spends on relief pitching. 
And the other problem with FA, is that  the White Sox signed few objectively good players in their prime.    Grandal's done okay; Dunn failed.  Keuchel was ?able when signed (and clearly past his peak), and he did have 1 good season for the Sox. But there haven't been many.  When you sign 2nd and 3rd tier talent, that's what you will get.

Corner infielders who can hit on the other hand are.

Edited July 5, 20223 yr by Bob Sacamano

I voted yes, but perhaps the question should be would he even want to come back after his 9th year of team failure, despite personal excellence. Abreu's current and any future salary is not the issue here. He is still a top performer on this team, and one of the few who will never let you down with lack of effort or gutting out injuries.

Why gut one of the few players the fans love? I have to support Jerry on this one in terms of offering a reasonable deal  ($s & 1-2 years) like he did Konerko after all he has given this franchise.

The Sox need to attempt to keep the influx of 2022 season ticket holders signed in Aug-Oct of 2021 on the basis of coupling with 2021 playoff tickets. You need Abreu back unless he wants to hang up his cleats.

Edited July 6, 20223 yr by South Side Hit Men

No have many others who can play 1st

6 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Corner infielders who can hit on the other hand are.

hit, hit for power, defend and/or bat left-handed to be more specific.

29 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I voted yes, but perhaps the question should be would he even want to come back after his 9th year of team failure, despite personal excellence. Abreu's current and any future salary is not the issue here. He is still a top performer on this team, and one of the few who will never let you down with lack of effort or gutting out injuries.

Why gut one of the few players the fans love? I have to support Jerry on this one in terms of offering a reasonable deal  ($s & 1-2 years) like he did Konerko after all he has given this franchise.

The Sox need to attempt to keep the influx of 2022 season ticket holders signed in Aug-Oct of 2021 on the basis of coupling with 2021 playoff tickets. You need Abreu back unless he wants to hang up his cleats.

The Twins have done just fine without Nelson Cruz.

And there's not quite the same fan connection with Abreu as Konerko due to 2005.  Almost.  I'm not sure a contract extension for anyone on the current team other than maybe Tim Anderson would move the meter much at all.

That said, with Pito the bigger question is how important is the continued presence of Abreu to Moncada/Robert/Grandal and Colas/Vera to a lesser extent?

7 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

He's only going to get older.

As are we all but there is a difference between older and old and past it, a one or two year extension if he was prepared to DH would be ok but he is unlikely to want to DH

ITT people imagine a logjam that doesn't exist unless you consider Abreu a Redwood and everyone else a twig.

Bad defense never hits until June. Another year older. We've already got multiple 1st basemen. There isn't a doubt 

in my mind he'll be back next year though. Jerry loves him and that's all that matters.

The first question to figure out is going to be whether he wants to be traded to a contender at the end of July. He’s definitely hitting well enough this year to be movable, and I think it’s obvious that you only move him if he’s ready to go.

What could we get for him this month? His departure would solve a couple of immediate problems.