White Sox vs. Orioles 8/23 6:05 CDT (Cease vs. Voth)

[Tomtom]

8 hours ago, MEANS said:

We need a bench clearing brawl or something to light a fire…🤷🏼‍♂️

They’d probably whiff on their punches!

[Tomtom]

10 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

They're hanging around and now the stretch of 19 against shitty teams begins

Oh wait 

They are a shitty team!

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 hours ago, maxjusttyped said:

You've watched the White Sox struggle this year and think walks and good defense are less valuable than WAR suggests? They aren't as flashy as hitting for a high average or power, but I've never read *anything* to support that being true.

edit - I should have mentioned that all evidence I've read suggests 1 pt of OBP is worth more than 1 pt of slug. That's why stats like wOBA/wRC+ are better at reflecting offensive value than OPS/OPS+ which weights OBP and SLG equally.

I'll answer this again too just so you know that you are arguing stats and I am arguing baseball sense. I'm not some anti sabremetrics guy. I value them as tools but that doesn't mean I follow them blindly and without thought or question the validity. I understand that questioning their validity might require an advanced degree in math which I don't have so the only way I argue is common sense.

Because the Sox lead the league in singles they are not as bad at getting on base as someone might think. I think we can all agree a single is better than a walk without me explaining why.

If I blindly look at the team OBP leaders I see the Sox are at 13 out of 30 at .315 so not even close to worst in the league. If I then look at each team's OBP there are only 10 teams above the White Sox. There are 3 other teams with the same .315  team OBP as the Sox ( Braves Mariners and Red Sox.) There are 3 other teams with a team OBP of .314 (Brewers, Guardians and Phillies). Lot's of good teams with the same or nearly the same OBP as the Sox.

If I look at team Slugging Percentage the Sox drop down to 18th at .385 (tied with the Guardians and Mariners)

If I check team HR's only 2 teams are worse then the White Sox (Guardians and Tigers). Team ISO is 29th .126 only Tigers worse.

For fielding I use the Fielding Bible which places the Sox 26th . They use team defensive runs saved as the measuring stick ,http://www.fieldingbible.com/TeamDefensiveRunsSaved

The only worse teams are Phillies, Royals, Reds, Giants and Nationals. 2 positions in particular hurt the Sox defensively SS ( -11) and RF (-11) where they are - 22 DRS. Since the Sox as a team are -19 that means the rest of the team positions players are not bad except for a -6 for the pitchers. They get an 8 over all on positioning in shifts and non shifts. The only other thing that sticks out is DRS saved by shifts . It appears the Sox are the 2nd worst with the Guardians being slightly worse. The Sox are a 6 while many teams are over 10 with the top team at 27. In non shifts the Sox are tied for 9th with a 2.

UZR has the Sox dead last by a large margin.

Basically its defense and ISO//lack of HR's hurting the Sox the most if you had to pick just 2 things they are the worst or near worst at. Team wRC+ is 100 which is 15th

Edited August 24, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[kgrittenburg]

10 hours ago, tray said:

Tough loss to a team that has been playing very well, especially at home.

Camden walls are a joke since they changed the dimensions.

Two balls hit to Left Center by Seby and Robert would have been HR in most parks.

 

wah wah wah, it aint fair, JHC grow a set

[soxfan49]

 

[joejoesox]

11 hours ago, Unknown said:

I don't understand how we struggle so much against mediocre teams. 

orioles have a better record and play in a tougher division lolol

they're absolutely better than this Sox team

Edited August 24, 2022 by joesaiditstrue

[Bob Sacamano]

10 hours ago, tray said:

Tough loss to a team that has been playing very well, especially at home.

Camden walls are a joke since they changed the dimensions.

Two balls hit to Left Center by Seby and Robert would have been HR in most parks.

 

Both home and away teams play with the same dimensions.

[PorkChopExpress]

1 hour ago, soxfan49 said:

 

That is bad.

[soxfaninfl]

5 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

And Carl Everett…two emotional leaders on that team.  Plus, Uribe was also beloved in the clubhouse. Those three, although Uribe stuck around longer due to Buehrle interceding with front office. 

And KW dumped on Frank Thomas.

[southsider2k5]

11 hours ago, MEANS said:

We need a bench clearing brawl or something to light a fire…🤷🏼‍♂️

They don't care enough to brawl.

[pcq]

2 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Both home and away teams play with the same dimensions.

The Sox shouldn't have to play Major League teams. The deck is stacked.

[hankchifan]

2 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

 

Wow, what a surprise.  I have been noticing Abreu pressing with RISP.  Much more impatient and less selective.  

[Balta1701]

4 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I'll answer this again too just so you know that you are arguing stats and I am arguing baseball sense. I'm not some anti sabremetrics guy. I value them as tools but that doesn't mean I follow them blindly and without thought or question the validity. I understand that questioning their validity might require an advanced degree in math which I don't have so the only way I argue is common sense.

Because the Sox lead the league in singles they are not as bad at getting on base as someone might think. I think we can all agree a single is better than a walk without me explaining why.

If I blindly look at the team OBP leaders I see the Sox are at 13 out of 30 at .315 so not even close to worst in the league. If I then look at each team's OBP there are only 10 teams above the White Sox. There are 3 other teams with the same .315  team OBP as the Sox ( Braves Mariners and Red Sox.) There are 3 other teams with a team OBP of .314 (Brewers, Guardians and Phillies). Lot's of good teams with the same or nearly the same OBP as the Sox.

If I look at team Slugging Percentage the Sox drop down to 18th at .385 (tied with the Guardians and Mariners)

If I check team HR's only 2 teams are worse then the White Sox (Guardians and Tigers)

For fielding I use the Fielding Bible which places the Sox 26th . They use team defensive runs saved as the measuring stick ,http://www.fieldingbible.com/TeamDefensiveRunsSaved

The only worse teams are Phillies, Royals, Reds, Giants and Nationals. 2 positions in particular hurt the Sox defensively SS ( -11) and RF (-11) where they are - 22 DRS. Since the Sox as a team are -19 that means the rest of the team positions players are not bad except for a -6 for the pitchers. They get an 8 over all on positioning in shifts and non shifts. The only other thing that sticks out is DRS saved by shifts . It appears the Sox are the 2nd worst with the Guardians being slightly worse. The Sox are a 6 while many teams are over 10 with the top team at 27. In non shifts the Sox are tied for 9th with a 2.

Something worth noting - the White Sox have a ballpark that is generally more conducive to offense than either Cleveland or Seattle. So, if you look at OPS, the White Sox are tied with the Guardians and Mariners. However, if you look at OPS+ which contains a ballpark adjustment for the slugging - the White Sox fall clearly behind those teams. 

In fact...the White Sox are tied for 20th with the Orioles in OPS+. Here's the kicker...no team worse than them is over .500. So their offense is basically "bare minimum for a team to be at .500". 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

Something worth noting - the White Sox have a ballpark that is generally more conducive to offense than either Cleveland or Seattle. So, if you look at OPS, the White Sox are tied with the Guardians and Mariners. However, if you look at OPS+ which contains a ballpark adjustment for the slugging - the White Sox fall clearly behind those teams. 

In fact...the White Sox are tied for 20th with the Orioles in OPS+. Here's the kicker...no team worse than them is over .500. So their offense is basically "bare minimum for a team to be at .500". 

Then there's my own made up  stat of how the Sox do in low scoring games which I define as: The winning team can't score more than 5 runs. I think at one point near the end of July the Sox were something like 30-17 in those games. In August they are 7-7 . That means in any game where the winning team scores more than 6 runs the Sox are around 13 games below .500. This is where they lose a lot in run differential. It also means that that trend of being above .500 in close games isn't working as well lately which has coincided with the HR drought in August. They have 15 now with 7 games to go. Their low for a month was 19 in April, June: 20, May: 22, July: 27

 

Edited August 24, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

[wrathofhahn]

This season we just seem cursed so many injuries to key players.

Sad because this team could have made a run

[Balta1701]

12 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Then there's my own made up  stat of how the Sox do in low scoring games which I define as: The winning team can't score more than 5 runs. I think at one point near the end of July the Sox were something like 30-17 in those games. In August they are 7-7 . That means in any game where the winning team scores more than 6 runs the Sox are around 13 games below .500. This is where they lose a lot in run differential. It also means that that trend of being above .500 in close games isn't working as well lately which has coincided with the HR drought in August. They have 15 now with 7 games to go. Their low for a month was 19 in April, June: 20, May: 22, July: 27

The White Sox have been at or near the top of the league in record in close games pretty much all of 2022, you're right that's one thing that has kept them afloat above .500.

https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/stat/win-pct-close-games?date=2022-08-24

However, the top 5 teams this year are Houston, Atlanta, ChiSox, NY Mets, San Diego. The top 5 teams in '21 were the Giants, Yankees, Seattle, St. Louis, and Boston. The Dodgers, Yankees, and Mariners were all top 10 two years in a row, but that amount of repetition should happen just by chance. This amount of turnover suggests to me that even if your team has a good bullpen, this is a stat that over time turns out very close to being a tossup, and if you've been doing well in this stat for one long stretch, you should expect that over the course of >1 season, that performance will not hold up.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

55 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

The White Sox have been at or near the top of the league in record in close games pretty much all of 2022, you're right that's one thing that has kept them afloat above .500.

https://www.teamrankings.com/mlb/stat/win-pct-close-games?date=2022-08-24

However, the top 5 teams this year are Houston, Atlanta, ChiSox, NY Mets, San Diego. The top 5 teams in '21 were the Giants, Yankees, Seattle, St. Louis, and Boston. The Dodgers, Yankees, and Mariners were all top 10 two years in a row, but that amount of repetition should happen just by chance. This amount of turnover suggests to me that even if your team has a good bullpen, this is a stat that over time turns out very close to being a tossup, and if you've been doing well in this stat for one long stretch, you should expect that over the course of >1 season, that performance will not hold up.

I can't find team ISO for the month but as I said HR's are down for this month and even worse are the amount of doubles.27 games in June 55 doubles, July, 25 games, 50 doubles. August so far in 22 games,32 doubles with 7 games left. 18 doubles behind July with 4 more games than in July.

Edit: Found the team ISO for August .109 lowest month of the season so far.

Edited August 24, 2022 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside