Perspective Desperately Needed

[soxfaninfl]

2 hours ago, Melton1972 said:

I am mad and depressed as it is and this topic isn't helping matters. The revenues from some of these sun belt states are not that great. Do you think Reinsdorf regrets that the White Sox didnt move to St. Pete? The Rays and the Marlins arent doing that well financially as the White Sox. Didnt anybody notice the White Sox World Series parade in 2005.? If the White Sox can play championship style baseball for a few years then they will dominate the Chicago market. Let the Pittsburgh Pirates or Detroit Tigers move to Charlotte or Portland.

Agreed and sorry. This post was just a matter of catharsis for me, realizing there was a worse time to be a Sox time.

But, hey, two years after that dreadful time in 1988, Frank Thomas showed up and the Sox had their best 15-year run in the modern era of baseball. Always hope. It’s baseball.

Edited August 29, 2022 by soxfaninfl

[TheBlackSox8]

7 hours ago, hi8is said:

I wish we lived in 1988 again… the world was better without the internet and all I cared about at that time was a combination of waffles, bugs, dirt, dogs, a bike, and Saturday morning cartoons.

Modern life is an insane hell relative to simpler times.

I wanna use this team to escape modern life's stresses and complexities, but they just make the insane hell even worse...

[Melton1972]

34 minutes ago, soxfaninfl said:

Agreed and sorry. This post was just a matter of catharsis for me, realizing there was a worse time to be a Sox time.

But, hey, two years after that dreadful time in 1988, Frank Thomas showed up and the Sox had their best 15-year run in the modern era of baseball. Always hope. It’s baseball.

I understand and appreciate your passion for White Sox baseball brother. As I has stated in an earlier post I had joined Soxtalk because I needed a place to share my frustrations with this team. Misery loves company and as a Sox fan for 52 years I have had my share. My first year as a fan the team had a 56w 106L season so I should have known what I was getting into. Like you say Always hope.

[hi8is]

11 minutes ago, TheBlackSox8 said:

I wanna use this team to escape modern life's stresses and complexities, but they just make the insane hell even worse...

That is usually the case but when it doesn’t happen we have to b**** and pine away elsewhere.

[joejoesox]

I think everyone on this board knows that the deep rooted problems start with Ownership and Management. Talented players are great but if you can't keep them steered in the right direction, then you're just another average MLB team. all 30 teams have talent, it's the ones who do the little things right, year in and year out who are worth a damn

LAD, HOU, TB (One tier below that would be STL, CLE, and perhaps the current NYY)

Ignore the payrolls and try to emulate those clubs, and you'll find success.  I feel like the Sox don't even know what the hell they're doing 90% of the time tbh

 

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, soxfaninfl said:

Agreed and sorry. This post was just a matter of catharsis for me, realizing there was a worse time to be a Sox time.

But, hey, two years after that dreadful time in 1988, Frank Thomas showed up and the Sox had their best 15-year run in the modern era of baseball. Always hope. It’s baseball.

1990 to 2006 was certainly a very good run. 12 winning seasons, three playoffs appearances (even though two were elimination very quickly) and a World Series title.

But I'd suggest the "Golden Age" of White Sox baseball was 1951-1967. 17 straight winning seasons, seven years 90+ wins (and remember from 1951-1960 you only played 154 games), outdrew the Cubs in 16 of those 17 years, got the lions share of local media publicity, had Hall of Fame caliber players Aparicio, Fox, Minoso, Wynn, Pierce, Wilhelm, manager Al Lopez,  70 All-Star selections in those 17 seasons, won the 1959 A.L. pennant.

Only reason they didn't make the playoffs more often was because baseball didn't have expanded playoffs until 1969.

Those were very good times to be a Sox fan unlike what basically has gone on since the start of the 2007 season.

 

[soxfaninfl]

29 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

1990 to 2006 was certainly a very good run. 12 winning seasons, three playoffs appearances (even though two were elimination very quickly) and a World Series title.

But I'd suggest the "Golden Age" of White Sox baseball was 1951-1967. 17 straight winning seasons, seven years 90+ wins (and remember from 1951-1960 you only played 154 games), outdrew the Cubs in 16 of those 17 years, got the lions share of local media publicity, had Hall of Fame caliber players Aparicio, Fox, Minoso, Wynn, Pierce, Wilhelm, manager Al Lopez,  70 All-Star selections in those 17 seasons, won the 1959 A.L. pennant.

Only reason they didn't make the playoffs more often was because baseball didn't have expanded playoffs until 1969.

Those were very good times to be a Sox fan unlike what basically has gone on since the start of the 2007 season.

 

I can be accused of hyperbole at times. My father would remember those days much better than I but your point is more than valid.

[Greg Hibbard]

Here’s my new perspective: they said it couldn’t be done, but 2022 is the year we put everything else second to prioritize the truly important things: such as making absolutely certain Gavin Sheets got enough at bats to almost be a replacement level major league player

[soxfaninfl]

2 hours ago, Melton1972 said:

I understand and appreciate your passion for White Sox baseball brother. As I has stated in an earlier post I had joined Soxtalk because I needed a place to share my frustrations with this team. Misery loves company and as a Sox fan for 52 years I have had my share. My first year as a fan the team had a 56w 106L season so I should have known what I was getting into. Like you say Always hope.

My first year (I was 7) was 1972. Pretty good team - Allen, May, and Wood. Didn’t last long, though, but fun times. A poster in this thread reminded me of the ‘50s and  ‘60s teams. Those teams never really won (a pennant in ‘59) but you still sense the pride. It is baseball. It’s frustrating. It’s maddening. But there is always next season and it’s about playing the game right which the current team is struggling to do.

But how many in 2004 and in the off-season before 2005, looked at the trades with the Brewers and the Yankees and thought, ‘these are the final pieces we need to be a contender!’ ?? You just never know.

Edited August 29, 2022 by soxfaninfl

[South Side Hit Men]

3 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

1990 to 2006 was certainly a very good run. 12 winning seasons, three playoffs appearances (even though two were elimination very quickly) and a World Series title.

But I'd suggest the "Golden Age" of White Sox baseball was 1951-1967. 17 straight winning seasons, seven years 90+ wins (and remember from 1951-1960 you only played 154 games), outdrew the Cubs in 16 of those 17 years, got the lions share of local media publicity, had Hall of Fame caliber players Aparicio, Fox, Minoso, Wynn, Pierce, Wilhelm, manager Al Lopez,  70 All-Star selections in those 17 seasons, won the 1959 A.L. pennant.

Only reason they didn't make the playoffs more often was because baseball didn't have expanded playoffs until 1969.

Those were very good times to be a Sox fan unlike what basically has gone on since the start of the 2007 season.

Bill Veeck is the only White Sox Owner who won more pennants than expected based on the number of teams he competed against. Beyond breaking out Charles Comiskey's ownership separate from his children, he is the only owner of the four groups who have a positive contribution to White Sox Baseball over 120 seasons.

Meanwhile, Jerry Reinsdorf and Family would surpass the Comiskey Family's ineptitude for worst ownership group in the history of the Chicago White Sox if they continued to own the Sox through 2032 without the Sox winning a second pennant.

Expected American League Pennants vs. Actual American League Pennants by Chicago White Sox Ownership:

1. +0.281 Bill Veeck (Actual Pennants 1, Expected Pennants .719)
2. -1.400 Pennants Arthur & John Allyn (Actual Pennants 0, Expected Pennants 1.400)
3. -1.890 Pennants Jerry Reinsdorf (Actual Pennants 1, Expected Pennants 2.890)
4. -2.625 Pennants Comiskey Family (Actual pennants 4, Expected Pennants 6.625)

Methodology:

Minus 2.625 Pennants: Comiskey Family (Charles 1901-1931; J. Louis 1931-1939; G. Comiskey 1940-1956; Dorothy Comiskey 1957-1958): Four Actual Pennants (1901, 1906, 1917, 1919) vs. 6.625 Expected Pennants (53 seasons / 8 teams per season)

Positive .281 Pennants: Bill Veeck (1959-1961 & 1976-1980): One Actual Pennant (1959) vs. 6.625 Expected Pennants (2 seasons / 8 teams per season + 1 Season / 10 teams + 1 Season / 12 teams + 4 Seasons / 14 teams )

Minus 1.4 Pennants: Arthur and John Allyn (1962-1975): (14 seasons / 10 teams / 0 Pennants)

Minus 1.89 Pennants: Jerry Reinsdorf (1981 - 2021): One Pennant vs. 2.89 Expected Pennants (32 Seasons / 14 teams + 9 Seasons / 15 teams) - Through 2021.

American League Pennants as a Percentage of Chicago White Sox Ownership Seasons:

1. 12.5% Bill Veeck (Actual Pennants 1 / Number of Seasons 8)
2. 6.9% Comiskey Family (Actual pennants 4 / Number of Seasons 58)
3. 2.4% Jerry Reinsdorf (Actual Pennants 1 / Number of Seasons (41) through 2021)
4. 0.0% Arthur & John Allyn (Actual Pennants 0 / Number of Seasons 14)

 

[The Mighty Mite]

6 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Bill Veeck is the only White Sox Owner who won more pennants than expected based on the number of teams he competed against. Beyond breaking out Charles Comiskey's ownership separate from his children, he is the only owner of the four groups who have a positive contribution to White Sox Baseball over 120 seasons.

Meanwhile, Jerry Reinsdorf and Family would surpass the Comiskey Family's ineptitude for worst ownership group in the history of the Chicago White Sox if they continued to own the Sox through 2032 without the Sox winning a second pennant.

Expected American League Pennants vs. Actual American League Pennants by Chicago White Sox Ownership:

1. +0.281 Bill Veeck (Actual Pennants 1, Expected Pennants .719)
2. -1.400 Pennants Arthur & John Allyn (Actual Pennants 0, Expected Pennants 1.400)
3. -1.890 Pennants Jerry Reinsdorf (Actual Pennants 1, Expected Pennants 2.890)
4. -2.625 Pennants Comiskey Family (Actual pennants 4, Expected Pennants 6.625)

Methodology:

Minus 2.625 Pennants: Comiskey Family (Charles 1901-1931; J. Louis 1931-1939; G. Comiskey 1940-1956; Dorothy Comiskey 1957-1958): Four Actual Pennants (1901, 1906, 1917, 1919) vs. 6.625 Expected Pennants (53 seasons / 8 teams per season)

Positive .281 Pennants: Bill Veeck (1959-1961 & 1976-1980): One Actual Pennant (1959) vs. 6.625 Expected Pennants (2 seasons / 8 teams per season + 1 Season / 10 teams + 1 Season / 12 teams + 4 Seasons / 14 teams )

Minus 1.4 Pennants: Arthur and John Allyn (1962-1975): (14 seasons / 10 teams / 0 Pennants)

Minus 1.89 Pennants: Jerry Reinsdorf (1981 - 2021): One Pennant vs. 2.89 Expected Pennants (32 Seasons / 14 teams + 9 Seasons / 15 teams) - Through 2021.

American League Pennants as a Percentage of Chicago White Sox Ownership Seasons:

1. 12.5% Bill Veeck (Actual Pennants 1 / Number of Seasons 😎
2. 6.9% Comiskey Family (Actual pennants 4 / Number of Seasons 58)
3. 2.4% Jerry Reinsdorf (Actual Pennants 1 / Number of Seasons (41) through 2021)
4. 0.0% Arthur & John Allyn (Actual Pennants 0 / Number of Seasons 14)

 

Bill Veeck basically inherited the 1959 White Sox when Dorothy Rigney sold her 54% of the team to Barnum Bill, the team was built by Frank Lane and Chuck Comiskey with guys like Fox, Aparicio, Pierce, Wynn, Rivera, Shaw and Donovon  already in place and managed by Al Lopez. They win the pennant and then Veeck decides to trade away future stars Johnny Callison, Norm Cash, John Romano, Don Mincher and Earl Battey for aging vets Roy Sievers, Gene Freese and Minnie Minoso, horrible trades even though it was great to see Minnie back in a Sox uniform and after a nice 1960 season he was fading fast and traded again in 1962.

Edited August 29, 2022 by The Mighty Mite

[WBWSF]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Bill Veeck basically inherited the 1959 White Sox when Dorothy Rigney sold her 54% of the team to Barnum Bill, the team was built by Frank Lane and Chuck Comiskey with guys like Fox, Aparicio, Pierce, Wynn, Rivera, Shaw and Donovon  already in place and managed by Al Lopez. They win the pennant and then Veeck decides to trade away future stars Johnny Callison, Norm Cash, John Romano, Don Mincher and Earl Battey for aging vets Roy Sievers, Gene Freese and Minnie Minoso, horrible trades even though it was great to see Minnie back in a Sox uniform and after a nice 1960 season he was fading fast and traded again in 1962.

Fox. Aparicio, Pierce and Wynn liked Veeck as a person. They thought Veecks trading of Mincher, Cash, Battey, Romano and Callison was wrong  They knew  that all of those players were talented. All of those traded players  had All Star years. The media  always liked Veeck. I never understood it. I thought he was a terrible owner.

[Highland]

23 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

Fox. Aparicio, Pierce and Wynn liked Veeck as a person. They thought Veecks trading of Mincher, Cash, Battey, Romano and Callison was wrong  They knew  that all of those players were talented. All of those traded players  had All Star years. The media  always liked Veeck. I never understood it. I thought he was a terrible owner.

Veeck had his failures as well as successes, but he understood the average fan and what kind of fun the fan wanted to have at the ballpark. Never would have wanted him making trades, but he did what he could to make the game fun. JR didn't understand the average on buying the team, and he doesn't now. There's the difference. 

[JoshPR]

20 hours ago, hi8is said:

I wish we lived in 1988 again… the world was better without the internet and all I cared about at that time was a combination of waffles, bugs, dirt, dogs, a bike, and Saturday morning cartoons.

Modern life is an insane hell relative to simpler times.

Couldn't agree more. Other than a couple things I wouldn't wanna go through from those times, yes I wish that too. 

[JoshPR]

12 hours ago, TheBlackSox8 said:

I wanna use this team to escape modern life's stresses and complexities, but they just make the insane hell even worse...

Yup. Made the summer suck even more

[bmags]

One of the problems with Reinsdorf is he is a long time owner.

I'm not sure of any other current hands-on owners have been around for 40 years. In the 80s, major league baseball was still fresh with the memory of an actual franchise bankruptcy in the seattle pilots. League health was a real concern, and even worse in his other franchise the NBA. Your location was everything. Jerry bought into the white sox as a baseball franchise, but was also buying into the MLB.

And 40 years later I'm sure a lot of the ridiculous work he did to shore up the MLB leads to today's game. Your location is not near as important as it once was. National revenues, MLBAM at one point, and revenue sharing give every franchise an easy floor. Basic new owners are buying fun toys that may lose them some cash in any given year but have a steady appreciating asset that makes it no high-stakes purchase that will dent their wealth. Look no further than the LA dodgers sale earlier this decade, used and abused by a ridiculous owner in dire financial straights and divorce, forced to sell, somehow breaks all records and sells for 4 billion. Smart new owners are realizing they can use the power of the local popularity of sports teams to add layers of commerce and retail around their stadium like LIberty Media has done.

But Jerry's focus has, since the mid-80s, prioritized "league health" (/sarcasm) over his own franchises competitive edge. He'll collude with other owners to keep salaries down. He'll go hard against the union and destroy one of his teams best chance at a world series and cancel a season. He'll refuse to let his org set markets on player contracts. He'll dictate to his org that they must not go over the recommended slot bonuses for the mlb draft. He won't let his team go big on international market until the new system was set, while, for instance, today's Rays were built on an incredible haul in 2014.

And an owner whose teeth were cut seeing franchises actually get in trouble by overpaying for unproductive talent knows you don't overpay for 16 year olds. Stay out of that game. Millions for a high schooler? Remember Kris Honel? No, no, the game is won by ignoring the trends and just focusing on getting those tried and true productive players at your price.

It's possible the league enters a different place at some point. That sports is no longer the holy grail of live viewing and gets split to death like all other content. And maybe then the current owners will turn to the wisdom of a JR.

But instead it's just sox fans paying the price for an extremely outdated owner who is extremely arrogant about how excess can lead to pain for a franchise. Whose pain? Well the owners pain. Not really the fans.

[HOFHurt35]

19 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I lived through the times in the late 60's / 70's when rumors were rampant...the Sox are moving to Milwaukee...to Seattle...to Denver...to New Orleans...even to Toronto.

Didn't happen.

They have a stadium lease that runs (I think) to the early 30's plus I seriously doubt the American League would cede the third largest TV market in the country to the National League. Just my opinion. If somehow this franchise did move at some point in the future (which I doubt) Chicago would get a relocated franchise or an expansion team.  

How is this even relevant in today's game? 

The two separate leagues are basically non-existent at this point.   

[bmags]

the league is more likely to just expand. Oakland/Tampas situation more likely to get resolved as leverage. It's just not a thing that the white sox will move.

[Balta1701]

 

[Sarava]

On 8/28/2022 at 12:44 PM, soxfaninfl said:

Everyone is mad and frustrated. Me too. We were promised better and, yet, here we are, fielding teams that probably would not beat our teams in the rebuilding years. A lot of that anger is directed at LaRussa and Hahn and rightfully so. This team has been mismanaged and the way the team conducts business needs to change. Unfortunately, that has been an ongoing problem for the Sox since, well, forever. Really, I became a fan when Bill Veeck still owned the team.

But I can't buy into this 'sell the team' or 'burn it down' mantra and we need some sense of perspective before this all goes to hell. We are fans of the second team in the second city. In other words, the perpetual underdogs, the gang that can't shoot straight. We had a pretty good run in the Frank Thomas years but still had some bumps in that road too. Honestly, it's the Sox. As a fan, I like the building part, the dreaming part, the hoping part. It's all about hoping for a better team and the frustration that has completely boiled over now has led to some non-sensible reactions.

Sell the team? What new owner would pay the price and still keep this team in Chicago? I lived through the 1988 season when JR threatened to move to St. Pete. I was living in Madison at the time and had an interview in Chicago since I graduated earlier in May. The date was 6/30/1988. We were having another sub-par year and all the news on the radio was the Sox were gone, the new stadium bill was dead, and 'Florida White Sox' tees were already being sold in St. Pete. I actually pondered whether I should stop and buy a Cubs hat on my way home or maybe a Brewers hat when I returned home. I didn't do either, but, oh, the agony. (Side note: yeah, no Amazon, MLB.com or Fanatics or even an internet connection on the road.)

However, this is the agony of being a Sox fan. I have no illusions. The chances of the Sox always being in Chicago are slim. The only chance is to build a team that can consistently compete with a Cubs team and show Chicago is still a viable two-team town. The temperature surrounding the Southside right now indicates otherwise. Put the blame where it lies - TLR, Hahn, and even JR - but hope for JR to realize the mistakes and BE BETTER! Outside of a young nucleus that can't stay healthy right now, everything else about this team is a complete mess - from the draft to the minors and development to acquiring needs to keeping players healthy. TLR and Hahn need to go, yes. In my opinion, so does KW. The team needs a new perspective but we need to keep ours. You should have a real fear that we are seeing the final years of the Sox in Chicago. I do. Selling the team and burning it down just feeds into that narrative. Sometimes I even think that may be JR's master plan anyway - to sell at a premium with an exciting young club. Well, that took a hit this year. Until then, though, I don't want to wrestle with buying a Cubs or Brewers hat again and I don't want to see 'Carolina White Sox' tees popping up in stores in Charlotte.

Thanks for reading through my diatribe. This may not be popular but hell, it made me feel better.

Go Sox!

The Sox aren't going anywhere. If a new owner came in and did what the Bears are about to do in moving the team to a new stadium in the burbs, the team and its value would go through the roof. They would stand to make way more money staying here than moving to another town like Las Vegas or wherever.

And look at the Bears now. It's recently been reported that their franchise value has increased by 42% to 5.8 billion dollars, pretty much solely due to the pending Arlington Heights land purchase and stadium.

[soxfaninfl]

2 hours ago, Sarava said:

The Sox aren't going anywhere. If a new owner came in and did what the Bears are about to do in moving the team to a new stadium in the burbs, the team and its value would go through the roof. They would stand to make way more money staying here than moving to another town like Las Vegas or wherever.

And look at the Bears now. It's recently been reported that their franchise value has increased by 42% to 5.8 billion dollars, pretty much solely due to the pending Arlington Heights land purchase and stadium.

I don't necessarily disagree. I just wrote for two reasons: to cool my frustration and, yeah, sound a warning. If you want JR to sell, there is a good chance an ownership group from another area will attempt to buy. It's happened before.

However, I also know a couple of other things make it more unlikely. The Sox payroll is not near the bottom and neither is attendance. I now live in Miami. Talk about a dead stadium and, possibly, franchise. A lot more Mets and Yankees fans here than Marlins. I do travel to Chicago to take in games. My kids still live there and we go to a few every year and the atmosphere is mostly good. I appreciate the frustration and anger. I would hate to see it boil over to a point it affects these advantages. After all, I have been to games at Comiskey in the not too distant past that didn't feel all that different than Marlins Park.

[bmags]

2 hours ago, soxfaninfl said:

I don't necessarily disagree. I just wrote for two reasons: to cool my frustration and, yeah, sound a warning. If you want JR to sell, there is a good chance an ownership group from another area will attempt to buy. It's happened before.

However, I also know a couple of other things make it more unlikely. The Sox payroll is not near the bottom and neither is attendance. I now live in Miami. Talk about a dead stadium and, possibly, franchise. A lot more Mets and Yankees fans here than Marlins. I do travel to Chicago to take in games. My kids still live there and we go to a few every year and the atmosphere is mostly good. I appreciate the frustration and anger. I would hate to see it boil over to a point it affects these advantages. After all, I have been to games at Comiskey in the not too distant past that didn't feel all that different than Marlins Park.

It's very likely at these prices an ownership group will be a hodgepodge of money investors from all over, but recently an owner rep will be brought in to lead group/fundraise (a la jeter). But since Seattle-> OKC in basketball, we have seen a lot of owner groups that initially were rumored to one franchise end up with another, and it has not led to movement. Frankly an org will move if the league wants it to move. It's unlikely the league would rather move 2 teams from chicago than deal with it's bigger problem franchises in Tampa/Oakland.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

On 8/28/2022 at 7:52 PM, joesaiditstrue said:

I think everyone on this board knows that the deep rooted problems start with Ownership and Management. Talented players are great but if you can't keep them steered in the right direction, then you're just another average MLB team. all 30 teams have talent, it's the ones who do the little things right, year in and year out who are worth a damn

LAD, HOU, TB (One tier below that would be STL, CLE, and perhaps the current NYY)

Ignore the payrolls and try to emulate those clubs, and you'll find success.  I feel like the Sox don't even know what the hell they're doing 90% of the time tbh

 

JR is a good owner for the investors in his corporation but a lousy owner for a sports team in a big market.

He's never cared or understood the big picture and fans are just pawns to maneuver.

The big picture is to run a quality franchise from top to bottom you have to hire people from winning organizations who held positions of power and helped mold those franchises into winners. Every level of the franchise must be given near equal importance.

The Sox are top heavy, built on a weak foundation always capable of collapse even when you don't think it's possible.

[greg775]

On 8/28/2022 at 12:44 PM, soxfaninfl said:

Everyone is mad and frustrated. Me too. We were promised better and, yet, here we are, fielding teams that probably would not beat our teams in the rebuilding years. A lot of that anger is directed at LaRussa and Hahn and rightfully so. This team has been mismanaged and the way the team conducts business needs to change. Unfortunately, that has been an ongoing problem for the Sox since, well, forever. Really, I became a fan when Bill Veeck still owned the team.

But I can't buy into this 'sell the team' or 'burn it down' mantra and we need some sense of perspective before this all goes to hell. We are fans of the second team in the second city. In other words, the perpetual underdogs, the gang that can't shoot straight. We had a pretty good run in the Frank Thomas years but still had some bumps in that road too. Honestly, it's the Sox. As a fan, I like the building part, the dreaming part, the hoping part. It's all about hoping for a better team and the frustration that has completely boiled over now has led to some non-sensible reactions.

Sell the team? What new owner would pay the price and still keep this team in Chicago? I lived through the 1988 season when JR threatened to move to St. Pete. I was living in Madison at the time and had an interview in Chicago since I graduated earlier in May. The date was 6/30/1988. We were having another sub-par year and all the news on the radio was the Sox were gone, the new stadium bill was dead, and 'Florida White Sox' tees were already being sold in St. Pete. I actually pondered whether I should stop and buy a Cubs hat on my way home or maybe a Brewers hat when I returned home. I didn't do either, but, oh, the agony. (Side note: yeah, no Amazon, MLB.com or Fanatics or even an internet connection on the road.)

However, this is the agony of being a Sox fan. I have no illusions. The chances of the Sox always being in Chicago are slim. The only chance is to build a team that can consistently compete with a Cubs team and show Chicago is still a viable two-team town. The temperature surrounding the Southside right now indicates otherwise. Put the blame where it lies - TLR, Hahn, and even JR - but hope for JR to realize the mistakes and BE BETTER! Outside of a young nucleus that can't stay healthy right now, everything else about this team is a complete mess - from the draft to the minors and development to acquiring needs to keeping players healthy. TLR and Hahn need to go, yes. In my opinion, so does KW. The team needs a new perspective but we need to keep ours. You should have a real fear that we are seeing the final years of the Sox in Chicago. I do. Selling the team and burning it down just feeds into that narrative. Sometimes I even think that may be JR's master plan anyway - to sell at a premium with an exciting young club. Well, that took a hit this year. Until then, though, I don't want to wrestle with buying a Cubs or Brewers hat again and I don't want to see 'Carolina White Sox' tees popping up in stores in Charlotte.

Thanks for reading through my diatribe. This may not be popular but hell, it made me feel better.

Go Sox!

I appreciate your post. I read it all. It's worth discussion that's for sure. Your sentence: "You should have a real fear that we are seeing the final years of the Sox in Chicago. I do," makes me stop and pause. OK, yes at least we have a team and we should be thankful it's here. I don't  think a new owner would move it. I may be naive but the Sox are still very very valuable $$ wise according to Forbes. As far as being thankful with what we have, I agree that's a healthy attitude. However this year is a misnomer, it's anti Sox. I can never (hyperbole I guess) remember a Sox team I've disliked more than this one. Granted some of it has to do with the fact baseball won't let its starting pitchers develop personlities by going more than 5 2/3 or 5 1/3 innings. It's taken away the fun of pitching. It's just horrible watching the parade of relievers. Also the shift is maddening and disgusting and the dead ball this year very very annoying. And the Sox lack of hustle and appearing to care and all the injuries make this season a misnomer for Sox fans used to GOOD HARD baseball at least.

In other words ... I can't just be thankful we have a team. Not because of the disgusting product that has made me so mad as a Sox fan this year. (I don't think Sox are moving anytime soon).

[ThirdGen]

It will depend on what happens when the lease is up in 2029.  I don't see the Sox staying on the south side. Its just too difficult to get to from their fan base, particularly on weeknights. They used to draw heavily from the factory workers on the south side attending after work, those jobs and people are long gone. The Sox didn't want to be there in the first place, and its only gotten worse over the the 30 + years. The Southside jerseys are cool, but what percentage of the attendance is actually Southside residents?  25 maybe?

Worth noting that of all the original multiple team cities since 1901- Chicago, New York, Boston, Philadelphia, St Louis (1902), only Chicago has its original teams. Doesn't matter how big your market is if the other team is selling 2.5 million plus tickets ever year and the TV market is split.

And yes, decisions are made supposedly in the best interests of MLB. AL and NL are irrelevant.