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Your 2023 Off-Season Plan


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2 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I'm sure Sean Burke is who they're relying on even if I don't think it's a good idea.

So the answer is no. No AAA SP depth whatsoever. The Sox system needs sooo much pitching. That's pretty much why they drafted so many pitchers. Charlotte is a particularly awful mess.

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Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So the answer is no. No AAA SP depth whatsoever. The Sox system needs sooo much pitching. That's pretty much why they drafted so many pitchers. Charlotte is a particularly awful mess.

What the Sox were running out as upper minors pitching depth last season was a total embarrassment. I'm with you. They need to address it. It went overlooked, but Charlotte was regularly running out 2 or 3 bullpen games per week because the Sox weren't willing or able to build a viable AAA rotation.

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9 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

I'm sure Sean Burke is who they're relying on even if I don't think it's a good idea.

Burke turned it on quite a bit over his last eight starts for the Barons (14.2 K/9 | 3.03 FIP) and may be closer than many here think.  I think it would be nuts to enter the season with him as our #7 starter, but I think he’s fine a spot or two below.

Edited by Chicago White Sox
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2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

So the answer is no. No AAA SP depth whatsoever. The Sox system needs sooo much pitching. That's pretty much why they drafted so many pitchers. Charlotte is a particularly awful mess.

The lower minors is loaded in pitching, it’s the upper minors that is the problem.

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4 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Burke turned it on quite a bit over his last eight starts for the Barons (14.2 K/9 | 3.03 FIP) and may be closer than many here think.  I think it would be nuts to enter the season with him as our #7 starter, but I think he’s fine a spot or two below.

Burke is definitely an interesting arm, but I think there are very few orgs if any who would have already had him in AAA and someone they're counting on as ML depth so quickly after being drafted.

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6 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Highly doubtful. He hadn't even reached that status I laid out  before he was hurt and hasn't pitched since late season 2021.

He threw a few innings last year coming back from a surgery. Hopefully he can progress fine and can be some kind of depth.

Edited by Bob Sacamano
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17 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

He threw a few innings last year coming back from a surgery. Hopefully he can progress fine and can be some kind of depth.

You're right. I missed the 3 IP with Charlotte late in the season in 2022.  I'm hoping he can pitch a full year at Charlotte and build his arm back up. Anything more than that though or a stint as SP depth for the White Sox in 2023 seems a bit of a long shot.

Edited by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
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25 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

The lack of progression from a lot of the lower level arms was concerning. We've seen a ton of guys stagnate or regress even if Vera and Mena took steps forward.

True, but adding Schultz, Pallette, & Cannon helps a ton and we’re also getting McDougal back.  That’s four legit arms on top of Vera & Mena.  Simas is a semi interesting prospect and I’m not counting out Thompson or Kelley just yet.

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7 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

True, but adding Schultz, Pallette, & Cannon helps a ton and we’re also getting McDougal back.  That’s four legit arms on top of Vera & Mena.  Simas is a semi interesting prospect and I’m not counting out Thompson or Kelley just yet.

I hope the Sox pitching development improves to a point where they can maximize young arms like that. The recent returns on starters the Sox have drafted hasn't been good.

It seems to me like there is a disconnect between what Katz is teaching in the majors vs what pitchers hear in the minors. Hopefully it's been cleaned up, but I remember during Stiever's breakout season Fegan had some quotes from him where he was saying what was being taught in Kanny vs Winston was radically different and better/different instruction is what caused him to take this huge step forward. Stuff like that doesn't happen in the best player dev organizations where they hear the same message all the way through.

Edited by maxjusttyped
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28 minutes ago, maxjusttyped said:

Burke is definitely an interesting arm, but I think there are very few orgs if any who would have already had him in AAA and someone they're counting on as ML depth so quickly after being drafted.

That’s totally fair, but he only made two starts in AAA.  I seriously doubt they would have started him in AA again after the way he finished off the season.  Again, I don’t think he should be counted as critical depth, but I think he did enough last year to be our #8 or #9 SP.

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1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Right outside of Davis Martin can anyone name a AAA SP pitcher the Sox have who can actually average 4+innings per start and still have an ERA below 5.00 ?

Martin is a meh flash in the pan. Not to rely upon. 

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4 minutes ago, pcq said:

Martin is a meh flash in the pan. Not to rely upon. 

He’s worth a shot as a swingman or 6th/7th starter, but when you stack him as the 6th man up against the depth the Guardians have or against the 6th and later guys for the Yankees and Astros, on paper it’s a major difference. If you pretended the White Sox had a lot still to spend you would totally want more depth there, but for the White Sox it’s probably the best they can do.

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1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Right outside of Davis Martin can anyone name a AAA SP pitcher the Sox have who can actually average 4+innings per start and still have an ERA below 5.00 ?

Which is why I said we need to add arms for AAA depth. Doesn’t change the fact that another legit MLB starter isn’t signing to pitch out of our bullpen as an emergency option. Search for another Cueto like arm…obviously easier said than done, but as you said, we have room to take multiple shots.

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BA's writeup on Burke is really interesting. Not only is he ranked 5 overall and the 2nd best pitching prospect behind Schultz, but they also gave his fastball and curveball 60 grades a piece. He seems like a super interesting arm for the Sox. I think people get too hung up on his ERA, but his underlying advanced stats has a lot to like. I don't think he is ready yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him called upon later in the season.

Edited by CWSpalehoseCWS
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9 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Thompson and Kelley took steps this year. 

Don't forget that. They're not quite there yet, but they took massive leaps from 2021. 

There was a point in May of last year where Keuchel, Martin, and Velasquez were all getting starts, and that was after Cueto was called up. Are those guys ready to give you 3 or 4 quality starts in late April if a couple guys get sick or have various muscle pulls? If they’re not, then this is absolutely a concern as having 2 guys hurt at once on a pitching staff is pretty much expected.

Again the White Sox may be in such a bad spot that they just have to tolerate this and whine about how no one could have expected it when it happens, but it’s not unfair to point it out now.

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9 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

Thompson and Kelley took steps this year. 

Don't forget that. They're not quite there yet, but they took massive leaps from 2021. 

Kelley still doesn’t impress me. He still walks way too many guys to be anything more than a future bullpen arm. Which, yeah there is *some* value there, but for being a second round pick he has been extremely disappointing IMO. Walks and conditioning continue to hold him back.

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11 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

BA's writeup on Burke is really interesting. Not only is he ranked 5 overall and the 2nd best pitching prospect behind Schultz, but they also gave his fastball and curveball 60 grades a piece. He seems like a super interesting arm for the Sox. I think people get too hung up on his ERA, but his underlying advanced stats has a lot to like. I don't think he is ready yet, but I wouldn't be surprised to see him called upon later in the season.

One of the big writers was really big on him too IIRC>

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