1 hour ago, Highland said:

 

Edited October 20, 20223 yr by Chick Mercedes

4 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

Not as if there are Cubans in the White Sox organization to worry about. Yeah I forgot about that.  Although the only Cubans left to worry about is Colas and Robert and (Vera)

 

Edited October 20, 20223 yr by Chick Mercedes

14 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said:

 

Moncada…

16 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Moncada…

? 

 

Honestly, even if all the Cubans weren’t any good, you don’t want to burn that bridge either. I like Ozzie, but he likely can’t overcome the Castro thing in this organization.

Has Sandy Alomar Jr even been mentioned as a possible candidate? Or is it assumed he’s staying in Cleveland as the successor to Francona?

 

Id also really to see Matt Quatraro brought in for an interview 

Edited October 20, 20223 yr by TheFutureIsNear

 

4 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

I'm not going to actively hate on Katz to nearly the extent of the manager himself, but a handful of names that worked well doesn't necessarily prove what you want it to.

In 2021, the White Sox's pitching staff was excellent, in no small part thanks to Rodon. In 2022, the White Sox's pitching staff as a whole was meh - they were 10th in fWAR and that sums them up pretty well. One guy who was really good, a couple of reliable relievers, a couple of starters who overperformed, and a couple of starters who underperformed.

But when we look at it a certain way - the White Sox had the 3rd highest bullpen payroll in the league, and were 8th in bullpen fWAR. That's a little disconcerting. 

They were 11th in salary going to their starters (Lynn, Giolito, Keuchel) but were 15th in terms of fWAR from their starters. That's not particularly good. And if we really want to go for this...this team would have had a below average starting staff if they weren't bailed out by Cueto being available when Lynn got hurt - a normal offseason with no lockout and they would have been genuinely screwed.

If I were to take this as harshly as I could, they were a solidly paid pitching staff and an extremely highly paid bullpen that came out mediocre on average, they clearly disappointed and were a part of the underperformance in 2022. 2021 was a strong sales pitch for this pitching coach, 2022 was a clear disappointment particularly in the context of how expensive the staff was. 

If an incoming manager wants to replace the pitching coach, I'm not going to raise an alarm about it based on 2022. If the manager wants to keep this pitching coach, I will also gladly judge the manager and pitching coach based on how they perform, in a context like this one. 

Not enough context in here.

Did Katz fail Keuchel? Well we got to see him go to his former coach afterward and was even worse then DFAd, then to Texas which has revived older pitchers of late and was even worse and promptly DFAd.

The other half of this is the atrocious depth facing any injuries to the bullpen or rotation. The remaining 40 man pitchers were routinely over 8 ERA in Charlotte. 
 

When Crochet and Bummer go down, when starters miss a start, they were grabbing from pitchers that couldn’t make other teams minor league rosters.

Despite that he got a 3 ERA out of a pitcher with a 9 ERA in Lambert and got strong production out of a pitcher jumping from AA in Martin.

Vince Velazquez had his best year in 4 years.

The Sox had a number of pitchers that were negative performing in Bennett Sousa, Keuchel, Ryan Burr, Jose Ruiz and Jake Diekman, whom they still all needed 145 innings from all that.

That’s a lot of bad talent failing to not be bad for all the budget it took up.

Thats where “10th in WAR despite first in spend” ends up

This managerial search.

"Offshore Betting Favorite" 

I love how Sox twitter sucks this nonsense up.  No one has any clue what's happening inside JR's brain right now. 

 

Edited October 21, 20223 yr by HOFHurt35

Hire Timo Perez you fucking cowards.

1 minute ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Hire Timo Perez you fucking cowards.

Well, he does speak Spanish.

4 hours ago, Highland said:

Any kind of so-called cancel culture has nothing to do with Ozzie. If he had said those things about Castro when he was manager of the White Sox, the controversy would have faded in time. But he said them in Miami, and the political situation there is drastically different. There was the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis. Professional politicians watch what they say in Southern Florida. Ozzie got in over his head because of his big mouth.

There was the bad way he left the Sox, and the Marlins couldn't get rid of him fast enough. Don't forget his dumb sons.  Ozzie forgot it is the team that matters, not his ego. He was not a victim. He did this to himself. Plus he was a lousy manager the last year he was with the Sox. Enough of Ozzie already.

Every time Ozzie comes up as a manager back with the Sox we explain what you outlined to Greg again and again, but just like the “Pacific Ocean…it (he) has no memory.”

Can't they at least dispatch Frank M.?

Edited October 21, 20223 yr by GreenSox

9 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

Thought things were supposed to pick up this week….beginning of the week was busy but quiet since.

 

2 hours ago, maloney.adam said:

 

Joe Espada is a serious candidate for this job. If it ultimately ends up being him, it's going to be awhile. Would he even be hired prior to the GM meetings? Astros are probably going to the World Series. 

Ozzie will never manage the Sox again, at least as long as Kenny Williams is around. I agree the bench coach of the Astro’s  would be a good choice. BUT if Dusty blows it or decides to retire at the end of the season, he’ll get the job. Right now watching the Astro’s, he’d be my choice. Not the bench coach from KC, we need someone from a winning organization, not a last place team.

I originally thought Bochy was the way to go but we need to go younger. 

57 minutes ago, bmags said:

Not enough context in here.

Did Katz fail Keuchel? Well we got to see him go to his former coach afterward and was even worse then DFAd, then to Texas which has revived older pitchers of late and was even worse and promptly DFAd.

The other half of this is the atrocious depth facing any injuries to the bullpen or rotation. The remaining 40 man pitchers were routinely over 8 ERA in Charlotte. 
 

When Crochet and Bummer go down, when starters miss a start, they were grabbing from pitchers that couldn’t make other teams minor league rosters.

Despite that he got a 3 ERA out of a pitcher with a 9 ERA in Lambert and got strong production out of a pitcher jumping from AA in Martin.

Vince Velazquez had his best year in 4 years.

The Sox had a number of pitchers that were negative performing in Bennett Sousa, Keuchel, Ryan Burr, Jose Ruiz and Jake Diekman, whom they still all needed 145 innings from all that.

That’s a lot of bad talent failing to not be bad for all the budget it took up.

Thats where “10th in WAR despite first in spend” ends up

Not enough context in here.

Vince Velasquez put up a 4.78 ERA, while that was his best in 4 years it is literally the difference between 4.78 and 4.85 in a year when offense is down. He was worth 0.4 WAR in 2022 and 0.4 WAR in the shortened 2020 season by B-R. Basically they took a guy who was an unreliable starter who has an ERA just below 5, put him in the bullpen, and got an ERA just below 5. Bragging rights!

You say “when pitchers go down” as though their training and response have nothing to do with that. Like the day where they sent Kopech out to pitch after he was already hurt during warmups. The pitching coach somehow didn’t notice that his pitcher couldn’t go? Come on.

Aaron Bummer specifically, in addition to Giolito, is a guy who has gone significantly backwards since Katz arrived. 1.50 WHIP this year. If he was actually hurt, why was he pitching? 

With Keuchel…so other people weren’t better, but that isn’t exactly a selling point for this guy?

The overall setup is still the same. Getting an ERA of 4.76 out of Velasquez is not a selling point. For the amount of resources put into this pen and this rotation, their performance isn’t in any way exceptional. It could well be acceptable, but “this guy is tolerable” isn’t an argument for why he must be kept at all costs.

 

40 minutes ago, AJ'S Cousin said:

Ozzie will never manage the Sox again, at least as long as Kenny Williams is around. I agree the bench coach of the Astro’s  would be a good choice. BUT if Dusty blows it or decides to retire at the end of the season, he’ll get the job. Right now watching the Astro’s, he’d be my choice. Not the bench coach from KC, we need someone from a winning organization, not a last place team.

I originally thought Bochy was the way to go but we need to go younger. 

I think Dusty is returning in Houston 

47 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

 

Joe Espada is a serious candidate for this job. If it ultimately ends up being him, it's going to be awhile. Would he even be hired prior to the GM meetings? Astros are probably going to the World Series. 

If offered both jobs, do you think he’d choose the Sox over Miami?

6 hours ago, Highland said:

Any kind of so-called cancel culture has nothing to do with Ozzie. If he had said those things about Castro when he was manager of the White Sox, the controversy would have faded in time. But he said them in Miami, and the political situation there is drastically different. There was the Bay of Pigs and the Cuban Missile Crisis. Professional politicians watch what they say in Southern Florida. Ozzie got in over his head because of his big mouth.

There was the bad way he left the Sox, and the Marlins couldn't get rid of him fast enough. Don't forget his dumb sons.  Ozzie forgot it is the team that matters, not his ego. He was not a victim. He did this to himself. Plus he was a lousy manager the last year he was with the Sox. Enough of Ozzie already.

I disagree on some of this but respect your take. Really a shame at how his mouth doomed him. With one WS title at a young age he might have done enough as a skipper to be a Hall of Famer someday. One title young; great fit in Chicago. But inexplicably the mouth that roared and his kids were so spoiled they didn't realize they needed to stay away to save dad. They coulda settled for front row seats but had to get chummy with the press and visit the locker room. Sad his kids helped doom him when they coulda helped him reach great heights by staying in the stands not the press.

Sox better hurry up and hire the guy from the Astros.

Edited October 21, 20223 yr by greg775

13 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

If offered both jobs, do you think he’d choose the Sox over Miami?

I would imagine so but I don't know for sure. 

14 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

If offered both jobs, do you think he’d choose the Sox over Miami?

Yes. There are other benefits being in a large market city. 

25 minutes ago, SoxBlanco said:

If offered both jobs, do you think he’d choose the Sox over Miami?

Depends on how much of his contract will be deferred. 

42 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I think Dusty is returning in Houston 

I think this will very much depend on how the season ends. Dusty with a ring could easily make a different decision.

3 hours ago, HOFHurt35 said:

"Offshore Betting Favorite" 

I love how Sox twitter sucks this nonsense up.  No one has any clue what's happening inside JR's brain right now. 

 

Sadly not even JR knows what is happening either!

1 hour ago, kitekrazy said:

Yes. There are other benefits being in a large market city. 

Miami is not exactly a small market. It’s pretty big down here… and growing.

Edited October 21, 20223 yr by soxfaninfl