1 hour ago, The Kids Can Play said:

The highest chase rate is now becoming a joke because they have too many wild free swinging hitters who are too stubborn or stupid to make adjustments. I also put blame Grifol who hired the hitting coach Jose Castro, who obviously isn't working enough with these undisciplined hitters over video to help them make adjustments.

There’s just no way to know this though. For all we know, he’s putting in the work but the players, as you say, are just “too stubborn or stupid to make adjustments.”

2 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

The highest chase rate is now becoming a joke because they have too many wild free swinging hitters who are too stubborn or stupid to make adjustments. I also put blame Grifol who hired the hitting coach Jose Castro, who obviously isn't working enough with these undisciplined hitters over video to help them make adjustments.

Having a bullpen with an 6.30 ERA when their genius GM decided to go spend the #1 highest salary for a bullpen, at this point is just comical. 

This really bad Sox team is 7-14 and will probably get worse. Right now the Sox are 23rd in attendance at 19, 567. As this team continues to lose games, frustrate their fans and continue being a boring team to watch, I suspect the attendance will go down even further. 

I've literally never seen Moncada or Robert choke up on 2 strikes. Not one fucking time. Arrogance doesn't even begin to describe some of these guys. 

29 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

I've literally never seen Moncada or Robert choke up on 2 strikes. Not one fucking time. Arrogance doesn't even begin to describe some of these guys. 

That's a great point. That was the good old fashion fundamental approach in baseball that these two have no clue on and not only choke up but a shorter swing.

46 minutes ago, Snopek said:

There’s just no way to know this though. For all we know, he’s putting in the work but the players, as you say, are just “too stubborn or stupid to make adjustments.”

You're probably right. Assuming the Sox coaches are working with them, then it's even more frightening in how stubborn and stupid these guys really are. 

51 minutes ago, Snopek said:

There’s just no way to know this though. For all we know, he’s putting in the work but the players, as you say, are just “too stubborn or stupid to make adjustments.”

We also have no idea who had a hand in the coaching hires. 

6 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

https://www.espn.com/mlb/story/_/id/20778736/diving-walks-gap-us-born-latin-american-players

Yes all true. Also paying less in advance with contracts for still unproven players results in less money paid out, but it also steals motivation. Why work for your first big contract when you already got it?

Swing at anything and try to make the highlight reel back home. Move a runner over or bunt? Don't be ridiculous. I'm a star. Stars don't do that. They hit homers.

2 hours ago, joejoesox said:

I've literally never seen Moncada or Robert choke up on 2 strikes. Not one fucking time. Arrogance doesn't even begin to describe some of these guys. 

I don’t think I’ve ever seen any hitter do that since high school.

5 hours ago, The Kids Can Play said:

This really bad Sox team is 7-14 and will probably get worse. Right now the Sox are 23rd in attendance at 19, 567. As this team continues to lose games, frustrate their fans and continue being a boring team to watch, I suspect the attendance will go down even further. 

They are already resorting to $4.15 tickets (tax day sale) similar to $3 tickets during the tanking seasons, and Pepsi can B1G1 tickets post baseball lockout / white flag years.

You can also get into just about any remaining game (Cubs, Cards, Red Cubs and Yankees the exceptions) for $4-$8 on Stubhub plus $2-$3 fees (still less than White Sox Ticket Fees).

Lowest Comiskey Park II Attendance 1991-2022 (2020-2021 COVID restricted seasons not included?

1. 1.339M 1999 - Post White Flag
2. 1.391M 1998 - Post White Flag
3. 1.609M 2018 - Tanking
4. 1.610M 1995 - Post Lockout
5. 1.629M 2017 - Tanking
6. 1.650M 2019 - Tanking
7. 1.651M 2014 - 2013 63-99 record

A 90-100 loss plus season may or may not cause FO change, but it will certainly depress 2023-2024 attendance, and result in significant player sell offs and a 2024 player acquisition freeze.

1 hour ago, JoeC said:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen any hitter do that since high school.

Let me introduce you to Anthony Rizzo.

 

21 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

The White Sox give up too many hard hit balls and walks, their hitters have too few hard hit balls and walks.

White Sox Pitching Staff

• 30th WOBA on Contact (.428)
• 29th in Hard Hit % (45.3%), Launch Angle (15.9) and Walks (92)
• 28th in WOBA (.357)
• 25th in Exit Velocity (90.1)

White Sox Batters

• 29th in Launch Angle (9.1)  
• 26th in WOBA on Contact (.352)
• 25th in Exit Velocity (87.9), Hard Hit % (35.0) and Walks (54)
• 19th in WOBA (.315)

Source MLB Stat Cast / baseballsavant.mlb.com

 

Bullpens are fickle, especially with your #1 guy out, so I'm not reading too much into those numbers.

The hitters have been this way for a long time, through multiple hitting coaches. I can't imagine they're being taught to be such free swingers. I just think there are several guys who just can't seem to learn to lay off pitches (especially sliders) outside the zone.

Eloy, and especially Robert, need to be hitting much lower in the order until they learn.

19 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Let me introduce you to Anthony Rizzo.

 

I stand corrected.

How frequently is that done this day and age, do you think?

24 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

They are already resorting to $4.15 tickets (tax day sale) similar to $3 tickets during the tanking seasons, and Pepsi can B1G1 tickets post baseball lockout / white flag years.

You can also get into just about any remaining game (Cubs, Cards, Red Cubs and Yankees the exceptions) for $4-$8 on Stubhub plus $2-$3 fees (still less than White Sox Ticket Fees).

Lowest Comiskey Park II Attendance 1991-2022 (2020-2021 COVID restricted seasons not included?

1. 1.339M 1999 - Post White Flag
2. 1.391M 1998 - Post White Flag
3. 1.609M 2018 - Tanking
4. 1.610M 1995 - Post Lockout
5. 1.629M 2017 - Tanking
6. 1.650M 2019 - Tanking
7. 1.651M 2014 - 2013 63-99 record

A 90-100 loss plus season may or may not cause FO change, but it will certainly depress 2023-2024 attendance, and result in significant player sell offs and a 2024 player acquisition freeze.

And of course we'll be hearing comments from the organization about how since fans won't support them they can't spend. Always the fans fault you understand! 

1 hour ago, JoeC said:

I stand corrected.

How frequently is that done this day and age, do you think?

Probably not very often, but it should be.

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Let me introduce you to Anthony Rizzo.

 

I always admired that about Rizzo for chocking up with 2 strikes! Sometimes he even hit a few home runs from it. 

2 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

They are already resorting to $4.15 tickets (tax day sale) similar to $3 tickets during the tanking seasons, and Pepsi can B1G1 tickets post baseball lockout / white flag years.

You can also get into just about any remaining game (Cubs, Cards, Red Cubs and Yankees the exceptions) for $4-$8 on Stubhub plus $2-$3 fees (still less than White Sox Ticket Fees).

Lowest Comiskey Park II Attendance 1991-2022 (2020-2021 COVID restricted seasons not included?

1. 1.339M 1999 - Post White Flag
2. 1.391M 1998 - Post White Flag
3. 1.609M 2018 - Tanking
4. 1.610M 1995 - Post Lockout
5. 1.629M 2017 - Tanking
6. 1.650M 2019 - Tanking
7. 1.651M 2014 - 2013 63-99 record

A 90-100 loss plus season may or may not cause FO change, but it will certainly depress 2023-2024 attendance, and result in significant player sell offs and a 2024 player acquisition freeze.

I agree it may not change the pitiful FO, but I do hope it embarrasses the FO and Jerry and that the fans continue to reduce the attendance. 

1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said:

And of course we'll be hearing comments from the organization about how since fans won't support them they can't spend. Always the fans fault you understand! 

I hope they do blame the fans publicly and then hopefully the fans will take offense and treat such nonsense statements as a slap to their intelligence. If that ever did happened,  I pray the fans take that personally and once and for all stop going to games so the loser Owner and FO can watch their team play in an near empty stadium. 

Sounds like a Rick Hahn special

46 minutes ago, The Kids Can Play said:

I hope they do blame the fans publicly and then hopefully the fans will take offense and treat such nonsense statements as a slap to their intelligence. If that ever did happened,  I pray the fans take that personally and once and for all stop going to games so the loser Owner and FO can watch their team play in an near empty stadium. 

As you yourself said it won't make much if any different with the ungodly amount of money rolling in to MLB teams from domestic and international sources. And this organization has blamed fans before going back to Kenny's, "I can't spend a dollar if I only have .50 cents" comment years ago. 

Hasn't changed a thing. The organization is arrogant, incompetent, dysfunctional and inept and nothing changes until JR is gone. 

That's reality. 

 

It’s like this franchise is truly cursed…

7 hours ago, JoeC said:

I don’t think I’ve ever seen any hitter do that since high school.

 There are very few players that choke up and if they do it's part of their normal approach. Guys who choke up because of the count not in their favor is  even more rare. It's so rare in fact that I will challenge anyone to  give me a link to any MLB player who chokes up more than they normally would depending on count or situation (outside of Rizzo ).

I'm not saying it wouldn't help. There are articles out there that explain how it can be effective but I don't know how often it is taught. Barry Bonds choked up. There is  science to support it especially when it is necessary to make contact which may help with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs. When someone like Sosa comes up and struggles it does make you wonder if any of these hitting coachesactually even think about suggesting chooking upor just to have a 2 strike approach that doesn't ever include it.

https://tbonesbaseball.com/unlocking-the-power-of-choking-up-a-guide-for-baseball-players/

Edited April 24, 20232 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

If the highest chase rate is due to the players pressing because they are struggling to win, ok.  But if that is just who they are, I don't see how this team turns it around. Advanced scouting will see these guys coming and opposing pitching staffs will be licking their chops.

13 hours ago, joejoesox said:

I've literally never seen Moncada or Robert choke up on 2 strikes. Not one fucking time. Arrogance doesn't even begin to describe some of these guys. 

I haven’t seen 98% of major leaguers choke up

8 hours ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

 There are very few players that choke up and if they do it's part of their normal approach. Guys who choke up because of the count not in their favor is  even more rare. It's so rare in fact that I will challenge anyone to  give me a link to any MLB player who chokes up more than they normally would depending on count or situation (outside of Rizzo ).

I'm not saying it wouldn't help. There are articles out there that explain how it can be effective but I don't know how often it is taught. Barry Bonds choked up. There is  science to support it especially when it is necessary to make contact which may help with a runner on 3rd and less than 2 outs. When someone like Sosa comes up and struggles it does make you wonder if any of these hitting coachesactually even think about suggesting chooking upor just to have a 2 strike approach that doesn't ever include it.

https://tbonesbaseball.com/unlocking-the-power-of-choking-up-a-guide-for-baseball-players/

Thanks. Just making sure I wasn’t crazy for having not seen a big league player do that this millennium besides that Rizzo clip.

7 hours ago, wegner said:

If the highest chase rate is due to the players pressing because they are struggling to win, ok.  But if that is just who they are, I don't see how this team turns it around. Advanced scouting will see these guys coming and opposing pitching staffs will be licking their chops.

It isn’t because players are pressing.  This isn’t a new issue for this group of players