https://www.illinoispolicy.org/30-years-later-taxpayers-still-on-the-hook-for-white-sox-stadium/

[Thesieve30]

Also, it is important to note that Reinsdorf made a great deal.

If the White Sox attendance falls below a certain level, the Illinois Sports Authority has to make up the difference to protect Reinsdorf from losing money. So in effect, horrible attendance protects them from losing money, except of course, for concessions and other things. So, as I understand it, if no fans showed up, he would still be made whole, and only lose whatever he would’ve sold in concessions and Parking.

Edited May 13, 2023 by Thesieve30

[Dick Allen]

1 minute ago, Thesieve30 said:

Also, it is important to note that Reinsdorf made a great deal on the taxpayers backs. If the White Sox attendance falls below, a certain level, the taxpayers kick in so in effect, horrible attendance protects them from losing money, except of course, for concessions and other things.

That was the landscape back then. Look at the Bears, the city owes much more than it borrowed over 20 years ago to rehab Soldier Field. Except for some infrastructure, teams know they aren’t getting public funds from cities who have already been burned by the process. 

[Thesieve30]

Just now, Dick Allen said:

That was the landscape back then. Look at the Bears, the city owes much more than it borrowed over 20 years ago to rehab Soldier Field. Except for some infrastructure, teams know they aren’t getting public funds from cities who have already been burned by the process. 

 

[Thesieve30]

You are totally right, but what I’m saying is that Reinsdorf does not have to be overly concerned with attendance, which certainly would reduce the sense of urgency of winning to draw crowds if it’s only the money for him

[caulfield12]

"The year 2008 marked the end of the organization’s 18-year rent-free agreement with Illinois. The team would only pay a standard clear-cut $1.5 million in property taxes. Reinsdorf was allowed to keep all money grossed in concessions, parking, tickets and so on. This new deal negotiated the terms that the White Sox would begin to pay a base rent to the state of Illinois. The amount they would pay was agreed to be based on annual attendance number. If 1.9 million fans or more attended, Reinsdorf would have to pay somewhere between $3-9 per ticket sold that year."

https://southsideshowdown.com/2019/02/22/white-sox-exposing-jerry-reinsdorf/

 

Note: they did have to pay the state of Illinois back last year for selling over 1.9 million tickets...it was just over 2 million, but they will do lucky to get 1.5 million this year and it might even fall into the 1.40-1.45 million range, compared to 1.6 million in 2021. 

Before 2008, there was a clause in the contract to pay the Sox if attendance fell below 800,000... but that was never collected upon.

Also, a $6.9 million bill for the Stadium Club restaurant subsidized by taxpayers. 

Edited May 13, 2023 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

16 minutes ago, Thesieve30 said:

You are totally right, but what I’m saying is that Reinsdorf does not have to be overly concerned with attendance, which certainly would reduce the sense of urgency of winning to draw crowds if it’s only the money for him

It's not because of past deals... it's because payroll is too high again compared to attendance.  Granted, the #12 payroll in baseball has been terribly misallocated.  Not the fault of fans when the team isn't even close to mediocre. 

They have one of the best sweetheart media rights deals in MLB in terms of per game revenues (partly due to owning their network), but are really suffering in terms of sponsorships and selling ads based upon projected 2021-22 playoff/contending seasons (and the forecasted generation of much higher tv ratings than the lows faced from 2016-2019 during the rebuild.) 

Edited May 13, 2023 by caulfield12

[Milkman delivers]

2 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

"The year 2008 marked the end of the organization’s 18-year rent-free agreement with Illinois. The team would only pay a standard clear-cut $1.5 million in property taxes. Reinsdorf was allowed to keep all money grossed in concessions, parking, tickets and so on. This new deal negotiated the terms that the White Sox would begin to pay a base rent to the state of Illinois. The amount they would pay was agreed to be based on annual attendance number. If 1.9 million fans or more attended, Reinsdorf would have to pay somewhere between $3-9 per ticket sold that year."

https://southsideshowdown.com/2019/02/22/white-sox-exposing-jerry-reinsdorf/

 

Note: they did have to pay the state of Illinois back last year for selling over 1.9 million tickets...it was just over 2 million, but they will do lucky to get 1.5 million this year and it might even fall into the 1.40-1.45 million range, compared to 1.6 million in 2021. 

Before 2008, there was a clause in the contract to pay the Sox if attendance fell below 800,000... but that was never collected upon.

Also, a $6.9 million bill for the Stadium Club restaurant subsidized by taxpayers. 

Am I misunderstanding this, or are you saying that there’s incentive to keep the attendance under 1.9 million?

[South Side Fireworks Man]

2 hours ago, Thesieve30 said:

Also, it is important to note that Reinsdorf made a great deal.

If the White Sox attendance falls below a certain level, the Illinois Sports Authority has to make up the difference to protect Reinsdorf from losing money. So in effect, horrible attendance protects them from losing money, except of course, for concessions and other things. So, as I understand it, if no fans showed up, he would still be made whole, and only lose whatever he would’ve sold in concessions and Parking.

Reinsdorf is scum.

[dohnut]

15 minutes ago, Milkman delivers said:

Am I misunderstanding this, or are you saying that there’s incentive to keep the attendance under 1.9 million?

[Thesieve30]

3 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

It's not because of past deals... it's because payroll is too high again compared to attendance.  Granted, the #12 payroll in baseball has been terribly misallocated.  Not the fault of fans when the team isn't even close to mediocre. 

They have one of the best sweetheart media rights deals in MLB in terms of per game revenues (partly due to owning their network), but are really suffering in terms of sponsorships and selling ads based upon projected 2021-22 playoff/contending seasons (and the forecasted generation of much higher tv ratings than the lows faced from 2016-2019 during the rebuild.) 

Thank you very much for the explanation

[Balta1701]

2 hours ago, Milkman delivers said:

Am I misunderstanding this, or are you saying that there’s incentive to keep the attendance under 1.9 million?

The more they pack in the more they make, but they are protected from losing much money if attendance plummets by this sweetheart deal.

[Balta1701]

On the subject of this agreement, the big issue is we are roughly 5 years from it being over, and the whole organization is in such a terrible state that it may well spend those 5 years below .500 and out of the playoffs again.

This scenario seemed possible a few years ago but was hopefully unlikely, now the path to it happening seems clear.

The deal ends in 2028 or 2029 (I think they could extend it for a year). When that happens, the Sox will have a 35 year old ballpark and have a genuine case for a new one. But, between the current political state in Illinois and the lack of excitement around the White Sox, when the Reinsdorf group asks for money for a new stadium and another sweetheart deal they will be laughed out of Springfield.

This looks an awful lot like the Oakland situation. There will be some effort to keep them around, but the state won’t want to put up nearly the deal they put up last time and the team won’t want to accept a deal that makes them way less money. The odds of Reinsdorf willingly paying for a privately financed ballpark are less than zero. The obvious path then becomes them struggling for a few years with a half empty ballpark and no deal, bad press, angry politicians, rumors about what might happen suppressing attendance, and eventually they find a deal somewhere else.

This path wouldn’t be so obvious if all they had done was win a few baseball games.

[Lip Man 1]

2 hours ago, Balta1701 said:

On the subject of this agreement, the big issue is we are roughly 5 years from it being over, and the whole organization is in such a terrible state that it may well spend those 5 years below .500 and out of the playoffs again.

This scenario seemed possible a few years ago but was hopefully unlikely, now the path to it happening seems clear.

The deal ends in 2028 or 2029 (I think they could extend it for a year). When that happens, the Sox will have a 35 year old ballpark and have a genuine case for a new one. But, between the current political state in Illinois and the lack of excitement around the White Sox, when the Reinsdorf group asks for money for a new stadium and another sweetheart deal they will be laughed out of Springfield.

This looks an awful lot like the Oakland situation. There will be some effort to keep them around, but the state won’t want to put up nearly the deal they put up last time and the team won’t want to accept a deal that makes them way less money. The odds of Reinsdorf willingly paying for a privately financed ballpark are less than zero. The obvious path then becomes them struggling for a few years with a half empty ballpark and no deal, bad press, angry politicians, rumors about what might happen suppressing attendance, and eventually they find a deal somewhere else.

This path wouldn’t be so obvious if all they had done was win a few baseball games.

I would be very surprised if JR is still around in five years time.

[Green Line]

This is anti White Sox propaganda.

[caulfield12]

16 minutes ago, Green Line said:

This is anti White Sox propaganda.

Isn’t their play this season the same, anti-Sox?  What could be more of a turnoff for fans?

[JoshPR]

Same gonna happen in NY with the Bills new Stadium. You would think this fuckwad would ar least have competitive teams. But no he loses no money. So who cares if we suck, no skin off my back

[GreatScott82]

I remember reading an article in 2013 stating that Reinsdorf told his son Michael to sell the White Sox and keep the Bulls at the time of his death. That was 10 years ago, the game has changed and revenue streams are much different. So who knows if Michael will still honor that? The sweetheart stadium lease expires after the 2029 season, but the White Sox can extend it one season thru 2030. So the Sox have 6 (maybe 7) more seasons at the GRate. I think if a new ownership group eventually buys out  Reinsdorf and his old timer ownership group, the time to buy will be between 2026 and 2027. It usually takes 2-3 years to design and build a new stadium 🏟️. There is no way the state of Illinois will finance another stadium to Reinsdorf or the new ownership group whomever and whenever they come onto the scene. 
One can only hope whoever does purchase the White Sox, can privately finance a new stadium and keep them in the Chicagoland area. It’s a shame the inevitable end of the Jerry reign as white Sox majority owner is taking a turn for the worse. The direction and hope for this franchise is the lowest I can ever remember. 

[ron883]

10 hours ago, Milkman delivers said:

Am I misunderstanding this, or are you saying that there’s incentive to keep the attendance under 1.9 million?

[Quin]

1 hour ago, ron883 said:

t

The excitement of this season is bringing people back!

[Lip Man 1]

3 hours ago, GreatScott82 said:

I remember reading an article in 2013 stating that Reinsdorf told his son Michael to sell the White Sox and keep the Bulls at the time of his death. That was 10 years ago, the game has changed and revenue streams are much different. So who knows if Michael will still honor that? The sweetheart stadium lease expires after the 2029 season, but the White Sox can extend it one season thru 2030. So the Sox have 6 (maybe 7) more seasons at the GRate. I think if a new ownership group eventually buys out  Reinsdorf and his old timer ownership group, the time to buy will be between 2026 and 2027. It usually takes 2-3 years to design and build a new stadium 🏟️. There is no way the state of Illinois will finance another stadium to Reinsdorf or the new ownership group whomever and whenever they come onto the scene. 
One can only hope whoever does purchase the White Sox, can privately finance a new stadium and keep them in the Chicagoland area. It’s a shame the inevitable end of the Jerry reign as white Sox majority owner is taking a turn for the worse. The direction and hope for this franchise is the lowest I can ever remember. 

On the rare occasions he has publicly spoken on this he has been consistent that his family should keep the Bulls and sell the Sox. He's said it to the Chicago Tribune and he said it to Bob Sirott on "Chicago Tonight" in 2004. 

This is from my State of the Sox story which came out in November from a source:

“JR has told his family he does not want any of his sons owning the team when he is gone. The Bulls are fine he said because they make Michael (Reinsdorf) money but baseball just doesn’t allow you to do that. (no salary cap)” (Author’s Note: Was told by an individual who knew some of the minority owners that “The Sox haven’t lost money in a long time.” A second source agreed with that statement. Seems to be a conflict doesn’t it? Maybe JR isn’t making enough money to suit him vis a vis the Sox?)

“In October 2005 some investors asked JR to sell and get out while the going was good, but he wouldn’t.”

“Andrew Berlin, twice tried to buy the Sox around 2008 but wasn’t successful.” (Author’s Note: Berlin, grew up a Sox fan and is now the owner of the Cubs farm team in South Bend, Indiana.)

 

[caulfield12]

Athletics MIGHT have a stadium by 2027 in LV according to the current timeline which has already been met with some challenges in Vegas planning... 

[oldsox]

A's should make a deal with Rockies and move to Denver, which can support both teams.

[caulfield12]

8 minutes ago, oldsox said:

A's should make a deal with Rockies and move to Denver, which can support both teams.

Want to see how far they can push the gambling angle in Vegas…JR already hinted at it recently.