Change in tune from Hahn's late May press conference.

Sounds like there is resignation that this season is over after losing 4 of 6 out west, not to mentioned continued attrition with the roster.

Vinnie Duber providing the 411.

https://allchgo.com/2023/06/19/white-sox-trade-deadline-decisions-will-depend-on-ability-to-compete-in-playoffs-not-just-for-al-central-crown/

Two Hahn quotes:

Quote

“Making the playoffs is important. But the goals are loftier than that. And when we judge ultimately what happens as we get much closer to Aug. 1 than we are now, how we project our ability to not only win the division but to make an impact in October is going to factor in.”

 

Quote

“In the end, it’s going to come down to an assessment of: How realistic are this club’s chances of getting to October and doing something? And then, what is the market? What is the return available to us if we make certain moves? Do they reinforce ‘24? Do they reinforce ‘25? How prudent it is to focus on those dates in the more distant future versus the more immediate?

 

Reinforce what exactly? 

They basically will be down to Robert Cease and Kopech... 

 

Not a matter of reinforcing but tearing down completely. 

But Hahn will never acknowledge that publicly. 

33 games before the deadline. The clock is ticking.

What record between now and the deadline would convince you this team could compete in October? 

33-0 might do it for me.

38 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Reinforce what exactly? 

They basically will be down to Robert Cease and Kopech... 

 

Not a matter of reinforcing but tearing down completely. 

But Hahn will never acknowledge that publicly. 

Exactly correct his ego and arrogance would never allow him to admit he flushed the rebuild right down the toilet. 

7 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Exactly correct his ego and arrogance would never allow him to admit he flushed the rebuild right down the toilet. 

Would admitting that publicly put him in a better or worst position to negotiate with other teams? Hey my guys are crap! Come get them!

17 minutes ago, Texsox said:

Would admitting that publicly put him in a better or worst position to negotiate with other teams? Hey my guys are crap! Come get them!

Well, nobody believes they're going to add a thing at the deadline. 

In that sense, Hahn's stubbornness (refusing to admit the rebuild is dead) is the only factor working as a counterbalance... and the fact that there will be many more buyers than sellers. 

I actually disagree with this. If you get in the playoffs, you can win the title. Any baseball team can go on a heater and win a title. Getting in is still the hard part. 

16 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I actually disagree with this. If you get in the playoffs, you can win the title. Any baseball team can go on a heater and win a title. Getting in is still the hard part. 

True, but getting in the playoffs this year in this division is a hell of a lot easier than getting in the playoffs from the AL East.  A shitty team from the AL Central will make the playoffs while a few decent to good teams will miss the playoffs because of their division.

20 minutes ago, hogan873 said:

True, but getting in the playoffs this year in this division is a hell of a lot easier than getting in the playoffs from the AL East.  A shitty team from the AL Central will make the playoffs while a few decent to good teams will miss the playoffs because of their division.

Exactly. And the ALC team will host a 3 game series to open the playoffs 

1 hour ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I actually disagree with this. If you get in the playoffs, you can win the title. Any baseball team can go on a heater and win a title. Getting in is still the hard part. 

I disagree with this. We’ve reached a point in the playoffs where teams that get hot for a couple rounds just get worn down, and a really good team always seems to knock them out in the end. When is the last time a team described by what you just wrote won a title? Maybe the Giants when they blew out Bumgarner to do it in 2014, and for them that was their third title in 5 years? After that, basically every team that has won has been really strong, winning 90 games and making the playoffs several times in a short stretch. 

If you have to go all the way back to the 06 Cardinals for an example, that shows how rare it is, and that team of course was extenuating circumstances- having won 100 games and making the NLCS the year before, and having two all stars who were injured but returned for the playoffs.

2021 Braves won 88 games but they’re an example. 

1 minute ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

2021 Braves won 88 games but they’re an example. 

They're also significantly better than any team that will come out of the central this year.

7 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

2021 Braves won 88 games but they’re an example. 

What place did the Braves finish at in the NL in 2022? What place are they in right now in 2023? 

12 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

2021 Braves won 88 games but they’re an example. 

The Sox will not win 88 games this year. I don't expect much at the deadline, either way.

4 minutes ago, Highland said:

The Sox will not win 88 games this year. I don't expect much at the deadline, either way.

Of course they won't. Neither will anyone else in the division though. 

9 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

What place did the Braves finish at in the NL in 2022? What place are they in right now in 2023? 

I don't believe that is relevant. The Braves are awesome. Variance is a thing though. Get in the playoffs and you can win the title. We can disagree. I don't really care. I'm not going to debate it though because neither of us are going to change our minds. 

I really don’t know what to think about trading and rebuilds. At a minimum, we should trade our 1-year rental assets (Giolito, Grandal, Middleton, Looez and Andrus… if they are tradable… lol). On one hand you could claim it weakens us and we are only 5.5 games out of deplorable Central lead. You could also make the other case that removal of any 1-yr assets on a losing team may not really impact the bottom line of a team that is 12-games below 0.500. 
 

Plus any trade of those 1-yr players that possibly returns a controllable Starter close to MLB may help next season. 
 

Where I get confused is whether we should try a complete rebuild. I wasn’t there given the state of the Central this year and projecting forward. But the only way we gain actual talent in trades that will help us move forward is considering Robert, Cease, Kopech, etc. guys with length of contract that outperform or at least perform to their contracts. I just have the sense that even if we back into the playoffs somehow this year, it’s going to be a quick elimination. 
 

The only thing I know that we all can agree on, is it shouldn’t be Hahn making those decisions at this point. 

2 hours ago, hogan873 said:

True, but getting in the playoffs this year in this division is a hell of a lot easier than getting in the playoffs from the AL East.  A shitty team from the AL Central will make the playoffs while a few decent to good teams will miss the playoffs because of their division.

I agree with Jimmy though that making the playoffs allows teams to have a new chance of making a run. Different sport, but we just saw Miami going to the Finals as an 8 seed with several key players injured. 

I would take getting into the world series and losing like the phillies did.

But anyway love how Hahn can be "realistic" in judging what his players can accomplish but has never been realistic about what the trash front office he has overseen for a decade can accomplish.

The exciting thing for hahn is he can save his father Jerry some money. He certainly won't bring in talent that will help us do s%*#.

Oscar Colas needs to be back in Right Field every day.  The Frazier/Sheets platoon has failed.

2 hours ago, hogan873 said:

True, but getting in the playoffs this year in this division is a hell of a lot easier than getting in the playoffs from the AL East.  A shitty team from the AL Central will make the playoffs while a few decent to good teams will miss the playoffs because of their division.

If MLB was interested in having the best six teams in the playoffs every year, the format would be different. The league is just not as interested in such an idea as building pretentious pennant races that create interest in as many teams as possible for as long as possible. Why do you think the two Central divisions exist?

And it does work whether you like it or not. Minnesota, Cleveland, Detroit, and the Sox would be buried in a different format as would a lot of NL Central teams. I think it encourages a lot of mediocrity but you never know, the playoffs are a new season, really.

The Braves did supply the blueprint a couple of years ago. Build what’s missing at the trade deadline. Of course, that won’t work for the Sox this year - nothing really to trade.

You absolutely should trade the 1 year control guys AND Anderson.  No sense in holding them.  It's not like this team has shown prior year success to where you can hope they turn it around.  They haven't shown that in the past, so why assume now.

4 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

I actually disagree with this. If you get in the playoffs, you can win the title. Any baseball team can go on a heater and win a title. Getting in is still the hard part. 

That might be a solid argument if the Sox were in a stronger division. The winner of the Central division has no respect from the betting sportsbooks.

Currently as of today, the odds to win the 2023 World Series from BetRivers:

Braves             +475
Dodgers          +525
Rays                +550
Astros             +625
Rangers        +1200
Yankees        +1400
Blue Jays       +1600
Padres          +2100
Twins            +2200
White Sox  +15000

Ok so the Sox got hot and won the Central, they would still be the last seeded team in the playoffs and worst odds of teams to win the World Series. It's absolutely not worth losing out on being sellers at the trade deadline and attempting to improve this horrible baseball roster. 

 

3 hours ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

Exactly. And the ALC team will host a 3 game series to open the playoffs 

Good point.  It's tough when we're this close to the mediocrity of this team.  We have a tendency to be much more critical and negative because we watch these guys daily.  It may not necessarily take lightning in a bottle to win the first series, but they would be going against the odds.