Obviously cleaning house in the FO should be the first priority, but how should they move forward from here? I'm at a loss. 

Edited July 24, 20232 yr by baseballgalaly

There are no good answers here.  The organizational rot goes all the way to the top.  A new GM, VP baseball ops, whatever, still has to work for JR.  The farm is barren, the FO can't identify talent, draft, and or develop, an the chairman likely wants to cut costs.  I can't remember a time when fan apathy has been at this level, at least not since the White Flag trade.  Attendance will be down, as well as eyeballs watching on tv.  They did this all to themselves, and of course they have no clue how to fix it, but even if they did, how would they?

I foresee trading of rentals & short term assets for near ready "prospects", signing of stopgaps, and a whole lot of hot air from the FO about the window still being open, and liking what they have, and their ability to compete for the division.  All while they struggle to win 60 games next season and still face zero accountability.

It is going to be ugly.

10 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

There are no good answers here.  The organizational rot goes all the way to the top.  A new GM, VP baseball ops, whatever, still has to work for JR.  The farm is barren, the FO can't identify talent, draft, and or develop, an the chairman likely wants to cut costs.  I can't remember a time when fan apathy has been at this level, at least not since the White Flag trade.  Attendance will be down, as well as eyeballs watching on tv.  They did this all to themselves, and of course they have no clue how to fix it, but even if they did, how would they?

I foresee trading of rentals & short term assets for near ready "prospects", signing of stopgaps, and a whole lot of hot air from the FO about the window still being open, and liking what they have, and their ability to compete for the division.  All while they struggle to win 60 games next season and still face zero accountability.

It is going to be ugly.

Yeah and they can't even pick top 6 in consecutive years, which would functionally mean they're unable to pick top 10. They're going to have to draft, internationally sign and develop their way out of this and there's not a lot of hope on that front.

Even though Montgomery and Schultz look really promising, Hernandez and Reyes (top international signings) look like a disaster. 

They also really did a 180 in the draft department, which makes no sense after seeing the early success of Montgomery/Schultz. 

Edited July 24, 20232 yr by baseballgalaly

Yeah there's no path forward. Too bad I live in Denver and the Rockies are an even worse organization somehow.

Tanking is definitely an option and probably a likely option now, not sure why it’s being dismissed. Doesn’t matter if you intended to rebuild it if you have to rebuild it

Ideally, here is what the future looks like as is.. I will also assume we trade Giolito and some bullpen arms for some sort of re-enforcement for next year and beyond. Possibly a trade of TA.

The starting pitching is going to be the biggest issue, but assume with Lynn and Clevinger out they take that $30 ish million and use it to bring in two pitchers in the 10-12 million range.

A competent front office and coaching staff can probably be competitive in this division next season. Obviously a lot changes happen if guys like Cease and Robert get dealt.

 

C - Need to sign or trade

1B - Andrew Vaughn

2B - Need to sign or trade (Maybe Remillard, Sosa, Gonzalez, Rodriguez?)

3B - Yoan Moncada / Jake Burger

SS - Tim Anderson (Stop gap & Colson Montgomery late 2024? if Tim is traded or option declined)

LF - Andrew Benintendi

CF - Luis Robert

RF - Oscar Colas

DH - Eloy Jimenez

 

SP - Dylan Cease

SP - Michael Kopech

SP - Need to sign or trade

SP - Need to sign or trade

SP - Need to sign or trade

13 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Tanking is definitely an option and probably a likely option now, not sure why it’s being dismissed. Doesn’t matter if you intended to rebuild it if you have to rebuild it

Unless I'm really fucking up at reading the CBA rules (possible) and have been spamming them across the board incorrectly, if the Sox get a top 6 pick this year, they can't get higher than 10 next year.

Tanking next year would only save Jerry money and nothing else.

3 minutes ago, Quin said:

Unless I'm really fucking up at reading the CBA rules (possible) and have been spamming them across the board incorrectly, if the Sox get a top 6 pick this year, they can't get higher than 10 next year.

Tanking next year would only save Jerry money and nothing else.

Sounds like you made the correct pitch to Jerry

26 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Tanking is definitely an option and probably a likely option now, not sure why it’s being dismissed. Doesn’t matter if you intended to rebuild it if you have to rebuild it

This. It was a fun idea and all that the CBA introduced, but tanking is not just trying to get high picks in the draft as much as trading short term assets for longterm assets. The draft is one avenue, it's not the only one. 

41 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

There are no good answers here.  The organizational rot goes all the way to the top.  A new GM, VP baseball ops, whatever, still has to work for JR.  The farm is barren, the FO can't identify talent, draft, and or develop, an the chairman likely wants to cut costs.  I can't remember a time when fan apathy has been at this level, at least not since the White Flag trade.  Attendance will be down, as well as eyeballs watching on tv.  They did this all to themselves, and of course they have no clue how to fix it, but even if they did, how would they?

I foresee trading of rentals & short term assets for near ready "prospects", signing of stopgaps, and a whole lot of hot air from the FO about the window still being open, and liking what they have, and their ability to compete for the division.  All while they struggle to win 60 games next season and still face zero accountability.

It is going to be ugly.

You nailed it. This is exactly what will happen. The Sox ownership and front office live in an alternate reality. They will go back to the hope everything goes right and catch lighting in a bottle approach.  No one is getting fired. No one will be held accountable. There will be no more Sox Fests. These guys will simply go back into their shells and hide for a few years.  

1 hour ago, baseballgalaly said:

Obviously cleaning house in the FO should be the first priority, but how should they move forward from here? I'm at a loss. 

I think a better question is how does the fan base move forward?

The answer to me and I'm not being facetious is to take care of yourself...watch what you eat/drink, see your doctor, exercise and hope to be around when new ownership takes over as it must at some point in time.

Seriously because nothing is really going to significantly change until ownership does.

This organization is so incompetent, dysfunctional and inept that whatever they do will probably be half-assed and blow up in their faces.

When you have as many serious issues as this franchise has in so many different areas...from talent, depth, unwillingness to take risks, poor development at all levels, "baseball-stupid" players and self-imposed financial limitations in the name of "fiscal responsibility" I don't see any way out with the current individuals running things.  

5 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I think a better question is how does the fan base move forward?

The answer to me and I'm not being facetious is to take care of yourself...watch what you eat/drink, see your doctor, exercise and hope to be around when new ownership takes over as it must at some point in time.

Lol. I was thinking about doing a health challenge. Something like no drinking, or working out every day until the Sox are .500 again. 

1 minute ago, DoUEvenShift said:

Lol. I was thinking about doing a health challenge. Something like no drinking, or working out every day until the Sox are .500 again. 

You should be in line for a very sober 2023, then.

29 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Tanking is definitely an option and probably a likely option now, not sure why it’s being dismissed. Doesn’t matter if you intended to rebuild it if you have to rebuild it

Oh they are going to be very bad, intentional or not.  We are in for a very long and ugly period of being very bad with every attempt at a quick fix thrown at the chasm they have dug for themselves.

1 hour ago, baseballgalaly said:

Yeah and they can't even pick top 6 in consecutive years, which would functionally mean they're unable to pick top 10. They're going to have to draft, internationally sign and develop their way out of this and there's not a lot of hope on that front.

Even though Montgomery and Schultz look really promising, Hernandez and Reyes (top international signings) look like a disaster. 

They also really did a 180 in the draft department, which makes no sense after seeing the early success of Montgomery/Schultz. 

They drafted younger players because they believed they’d be in contention and could extend the window by drafting youth. Now that they realize they aren’t - they want older players who can quickly contribute.

Pain. 

14 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

I think a better question is how does the fan base move forward?

The answer to me and I'm not being facetious is to take care of yourself...watch what you eat/drink, see your doctor, exercise and hope to be around when new ownership takes over as it must at some point in time.

Seriously because nothing is really going to significantly change until ownership does.

This organization is so incompetent, dysfunctional and inept that whatever they do will probably be half-assed and blow up in their faces.

When you have as many serious issues as this franchise has in so many different areas...from talent, depth, unwillingness to take risks, poor development at all levels, "baseball-stupid" players and self-imposed financial limitations in the name of "fiscal responsibility" I don't see any way out with the current individuals running things.  

It made sense to me when beer marketing was drink responsibly....then they changed it to live responsibly....do I really need my beer to tell me that?....and now I have to live even more responsibly so I can hopefully see another World Series on the South Side.....c'mon man!!!

11 minutes ago, DoUEvenShift said:

Lol. I was thinking about doing a health challenge. Something like no drinking, or working out every day until the Sox are .500 again. 

I tried the first option about 1000 times. never lasted an entire 3 game series.

1 hour ago, Tnetennba said:

There are no good answers here.  The organizational rot goes all the way to the top.  A new GM, VP baseball ops, whatever, still has to work for JR.  The farm is barren, the FO can't identify talent, draft, and or develop, an the chairman likely wants to cut costs.  I can't remember a time when fan apathy has been at this level, at least not since the White Flag trade.  Attendance will be down, as well as eyeballs watching on tv.  They did this all to themselves, and of course they have no clue how to fix it, but even if they did, how would they?

I foresee trading of rentals & short term assets for near ready "prospects", signing of stopgaps, and a whole lot of hot air from the FO about the window still being open, and liking what they have, and their ability to compete for the division.  All while they struggle to win 60 games next season and still face zero accountability.

It is going to be ugly.

Also if the new GM is Getz there’s a good chance he’s worse than the old GM.

59 minutes ago, T R U said:

Ideally, here is what the future looks like as is.. I will also assume we trade Giolito and some bullpen arms for some sort of re-enforcement for next year and beyond. Possibly a trade of TA.

The starting pitching is going to be the biggest issue, but assume with Lynn and Clevinger out they take that $30 ish million and use it to bring in two pitchers in the 10-12 million range.

A competent front office and coaching staff can probably be competitive in this division next season. Obviously a lot changes happen if guys like Cease and Robert get dealt.

 

C - Need to sign or trade

1B - Andrew Vaughn

2B - Need to sign or trade (Maybe Remillard, Sosa, Gonzalez, Rodriguez?)

3B - Yoan Moncada / Jake Burger

SS - Tim Anderson (Stop gap & Colson Montgomery late 2024? if Tim is traded or option declined)

LF - Andrew Benintendi

CF - Luis Robert

RF - Oscar Colas

DH - Eloy Jimenez

 

SP - Dylan Cease

SP - Michael Kopech

SP - Need to sign or trade

SP - Need to sign or trade

SP - Need to sign or trade

Your post is on target. I'm hoping that Colas and Burger have a good August and September. That would solve some of the problems in the future.  I noticed that the Cardinals want to trade Willson Contreras. I don't know what they would want for him but he would upgrade the teams catching here.

There are many jobs to protect. This is serious stuff. I would blame the fans for not supporting the team and bringing negative sign energy to the park when they do come out. Perhaps a petition for self-contraction would be in order.

Trade Giolito, Lynn, Kelly, Lopez, Middleton and Yaz to the highest bidders the next week.

Fire the entire front office this offseason.  Hire completely un-White Sox related individuals.  Let them decide if Pedro deserves another chance, and let them try to reshape the roster for 2024.  

That's about the only way forward.  The 2nd line is never happening though - even if they fire Hahn (I will believe it when I see it), its going to be the same dudes running this mess until JR moves on.  

Edited July 24, 20232 yr by ChiSox59

It's never going to change until one of two things happens:  Jerry either passes away and the team is sold, or Jerry shocks the world and fires the entire front office and he actually goes to the outside and hires a GM from a winning org that actually knows how to build a winning franchise, by excelling in scouting, drafting and developing talent in the minors. Then Jerry needs to drop his stubborn ego and make this new GM President of the entire White Sox baseball operations. Most importantly, Jerry would need to stay 100 percent out of his way and allow this new Pres to hire his own people from outside this trainwreck White Sox org.

Unfortunately I've accepted the harsh reality, that I will have to just be patient and wait until this POS demented, stubborn and arrogant owner passes away. Then we hope a good ownership group comes in, that actually wants to make winning the #1 priority at all costs. 

1 hour ago, Quin said:

Unless I'm really fucking up at reading the CBA rules (possible) and have been spamming them across the board incorrectly, if the Sox get a top 6 pick this year, they can't get higher than 10 next year.

Tanking next year would only save Jerry money and nothing else.

This. 

I thought it was just that large market teams couldn't pick top 6 in consecutive years but if it's top 10 it's even worse. 

This is why tanking isn't a real option. 

Edited July 24, 20232 yr by baseballgalaly

1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

Tanking is definitely an option and probably a likely option now, not sure why it’s being dismissed. Doesn’t matter if you intended to rebuild it if you have to rebuild it

It's because they either can't pick top 6 or top 10(not sure) in consecutive seasons.