7 minutes ago, Quin said:

And even with all the ifs.

• If Fedde or Soroka are dealing at the deadline, you should probably trade them.
• If DeJong or Lopez are playing well and teams want defenders up the middle, you should trade them.
• If Yoan, Eloy, or Benintendi are playing well and teams are willing to their contracts? Trade.
• Stassi? Depends on Quero.

What if we are leading the division by 5 games?

8 minutes ago, Quin said:

And even with all the ifs.

• If Fedde or Soroka are dealing at the deadline, you should probably trade them.
• If DeJong or Lopez are playing well and teams want defenders up the middle, you should trade them.
• If Yoan, Eloy, or Benintendi are playing well and teams are willing to their contracts? Trade.
• Stassi? Depends on Quero.

Yup, none of these acquisitions are long term pieces. If any of them are playing well and are desirable deadline pieces, flip them for prospect depth. 

1 minute ago, poppysox said:

What if we are leading the division by 5 games?

This statement is all I need to know that you're not taking this seriously.

17 minutes ago, poppysox said:

What if we are leading the division by 5 games?

LOL.  That's ridiculous!

19 minutes ago, poppysox said:

What if we are leading the division by 5 games?

LOL no chance

22 minutes ago, poppysox said:

What if we are leading the division by 5 games?

Now that it's a contract year, I expect Yoan to play through pain, and be committed to his craft, particularly at the plate. 

I expect him to play well and be flipped at the deadline. Ramos should be ready by then.

56 minutes ago, poppysox said:

Yeah...around here it always comes down to glass half empty vs glass half full.

No, I think some of us are just being realistic with expectations.  2024 will likely be ugly and that’s ok as long as we see progress from some of the young guys in AAA and eventually the majors.  But if you’re expecting a much better year than last season from a W-L perspective, then I’d prepare to be disappointed.

31 minutes ago, poppysox said:

If Yoan, Eloy, or Benintendi are playing well and teams are willing to their contracts? Trade.

I guess I'm being argumentative with this, but if Benintendi is playing 2 bWAR baseball, why trade him? We have no OF depth, he's not blocking anybody, and that's probably fair value for his contract. 

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

Grandal, Bummer, Kelley, Graveman, Lynn, Gio, and Anderson...all gone thank God!

Clevenger was OK and Hendriks didn't contribute.

DeJong/Mongomery, Lopez/new guy, Stassi/lee, Fedde are all better than who they replaced.

So far, I think Getz has done a good job of clearing the dead wood and improving the defense and chemistry until help arrives.  New coaches and Bannister are also positives.  Some health for Moncada, Eloy, Benintendi, etc. would help a lot.  No way will this 2024 squad lose 100...especially when the offseason moves have been completed.

This is basically what we are looking at for SP to start the year and their FIP last season..

Cease (3.72 FIP)

Fedde (?? Unknown)

Soroka (6.56 FIP)

Kopech (6.46 FIP)

Toussaint (4.95 FIP)

Scholtens (5.31 FIP)

This is bad, doesn't matter if Paul DeJong and Nicky Lopez are behind them.

If/When Cease is traded, the rotation is arguably the worst in baseball. The offense last season was 25th in AVG, 30th in OBP, 26th in SLG, and 29th in OPS.

The White Sox had a .238 team average and a .675 team OPS. None of those additions you named even meet those figures.

Someone else said this in a post and I don't remember where, but it was a great post and it was something like this. Basically, instead of the Sox losing 9-3 they are going to lose 6-3.

5 minutes ago, T R U said:

This is basically what we are looking at for SP to start the year and their FIP last season..

Cease (3.72 FIP)

Fedde (?? Unknown)

Soroka (6.56 FIP)

Kopech (6.46 FIP)

Toussaint (4.95 FIP)

Scholtens (5.31 FIP)

This is bad, doesn't matter if Paul DeJong and Nicky Lopez are behind them.

If/When Cease is traded, the rotation is arguably the worst in baseball. The offense last season was 25th in AVG, 30th in OBP, 26th in SLG, and 29th in OPS.

The White Sox had a .238 team average and a .675 team OPS. None of those additions you named even meet those figures.

Someone else said this in a post and I don't remember where, but it was a great post and it was something like this. Basically, instead of the Sox losing 9-3 they are going to lose 6-3.

They don't just give you #30 in the rankings. You are expected to go out and earn it. No free lunch.

5 minutes ago, T R U said:

This is basically what we are looking at for SP to start the year and their FIP last season..

With Chris Getz and AA basically having an open line between them, I'm surprised the White Sox weren't in on Marco Gonzalez. I still think they're a couple of warm bodies away from a finished rotation. 

It seems this whole offseason is about stock-piling capable options who won't be blocking anybody. 

9 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

With Chris Getz and AA basically having an open line between them, I'm surprised the White Sox weren't in on Marco Gonzalez. I still think they're a couple of warm bodies away from a finished rotation. 

It seems this whole offseason is about stock-piling capable options who won't be blocking anybody. 

Its because they know they are going to be bad, even if they don't want to come out and say it, and it looks like the priority right now is to acquire some players we may be able to flip at the deadline.

No moves that have been made so far indicate at all they are trying to compete this season.

21 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I guess I'm being argumentative with this, but if Benintendi is playing 2 bWAR baseball, why trade him? We have no OF depth, he's not blocking anybody, and that's probably fair value for his contract. 

Well, hopefully you get at least one OF prospect back for Cease. And if you can get out from his contract, that's future money that be spent improving the team, clearing space for other prospects that may need to move to a corner spot, etc.

He's dead weight for this team's future, so there's no reason to keep him if someone wants him.

1 minute ago, T R U said:

No moves that have been made so far indicate at all they are trying to compete this season.

Yeah, Marco Gonzalez wouldn't be a move to compete. It's a move to keep Jesse Scholtens out of the rotation, and perhaps have a guy to tweak and flip, though I think we throw that concept around pretty freely. I want to be positive about Soroka, but he could end up being 3rd inning mop up by the end of April. I've always felt Getz has to stock-pile 10-12 rotation arms between AAA and the big club. 

Players could still be dumped or added, but in terms of current roster:

• Position Players: 12/10/23  > 2023 Roster 
• Rotation: March - July 2023 > 12/10/23 > Aug-Oct 2023
• Bullpen: March - July 2023 > 12/10/23 = Aug-Oct 2023

Hard to tell until their payroll is known, but if they keep Cease to start the year and can pan out one or two starter projects and two to three reliever projects, they have a good shot at 70-75 wins. 

Two other positives is Getz isn’t doing stupid s%*#, he brought in substantial outside help to assess and develop talent, and they got rid more bad apples (Boston and Clevinger) and poorly performing players.

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

What if we are leading the division by 5 games?

White Sox fans have enjoyed this scenario for a total of 411 days under Jerry Reinsdorf.

• 1983 (54 days) 8/2; 8/11-10/2
• 1993 (23 days) 8/1; 8/30-9/8; 9/22-10/3
• 2000 (110 days) 6/14-10/1
• 2005 (113 days) 4/25; 5/12-5/15; 5/17-5/26; 5/31; 6/10; 6/12-6/13; 6/15-9/14; 10/1-10/2
• 2008 (6 days) 6/8-6/13
• 2016 (9 days) 5/7-5/15
• 2021 (96 days) 6/13; 7/1-10/3

 

7 minutes ago, South Side Hit Men said:

White Sox fans have enjoyed this scenario for a total of 411 days under Jerry Reinsdorf.

• 1983 (54 days) 8/2; 8/11-10/2
• 1993 (23 days) 8/1; 8/30-9/8; 9/22-10/3
• 2000 (110 days) 6/14-10/1
• 2005 (113 days) 4/25; 5/12-5/15; 5/17-5/26; 5/31; 6/10; 6/12-6/13; 6/15-9/14; 10/1-10/2
• 2008 (6 days) 6/8-6/13
• 2016 (9 days) 5/7-5/15
• 2021 (96 days) 6/13; 7/1-10/3

 

Out of how many possible days, do that too.. or not, I think we all know the results anyways.

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

Yeah, Marco Gonzalez wouldn't be a move to compete. It's a move to keep Jesse Scholtens out of the rotation, and perhaps have a guy to tweak and flip, though I think we throw that concept around pretty freely. I want to be positive about Soroka, but he could end up being 3rd inning mop up by the end of April. I've always felt Getz has to stock-pile 10-12 rotation arms between AAA and the big club. 

The moves are fine, needed, and will move the franchise forward on the long and hard road of building (again) a core of guys you can rely on to sustain success. I just wish the franchise realized that the few remaining fans are almost all die hards and you don't have to try and sell this as a retool. Just admit failure and move on.

2 hours ago, Tnetennba said:

Yup, none of these acquisitions are long term pieces. If any of them are playing well and are desirable deadline pieces, flip them for prospect depth. 

So, you mean none of these guys are going to be a part of the next "Championship Window"? Their loss!

 

Just now, Saufley said:

So, you mean none of these guys are going to be a part of the next "Championship Window"? Their loss!

 

Somewhere RV chuckles quietly to himself.

2 minutes ago, T R U said:

Out of how many possible days, do that too.. or not, I think we all know the results anyways.

Players service time over the season is 172 per year. (172 X 43 = 7,396)

(411 / 7369 = 5.55%)

You would have to back out the lockout / strike days (1981, 1994, 1995, 2020) that let’s face it Jerry has been largely responsible for to get the exact count, but under 6% is the answer even accounting for subtracting these days.

If I’m ambitious I’ll calculate the Sox total against the other 30 teams (29 + Montreal).

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I guess I'm being argumentative with this, but if Benintendi is playing 2 bWAR baseball, why trade him? We have no OF depth, he's not blocking anybody, and that's probably fair value for his contract. 

To get out of that awful contract. Even if he's plays well next season, why not let someone else deal with the back end of the deal? Especially for a penny pinching org like the Sox. It's not like light hitting mediocre left fielders are hard to come by. 

23 minutes ago, Saufley said:

So, you mean none of these guys are going to be a part of the next "Championship Window"? Their loss!

 

Is there a window and door company named Championship Windows doing work at Sox Park? Cuz that's as close as any of these guys are gonna get.

1 hour ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Players could still be dumped or added, but in terms of current roster:

• Position Players: 12/10/23  > 2023 Roster 
• Rotation: March - July 2023 > 12/10/23 > Aug-Oct 2023
• Bullpen: March - July 2023 > 12/10/23 = Aug-Oct 2023

Hard to tell until their payroll is known, but if they keep Cease to start the year and can pan out one or two starter projects and two to three reliever projects, they have a good shot at 70-75 wins. 

Two other positives is Getz isn’t doing stupid s%*#, he brought in substantial outside help to assess and develop talent, and they got rid more bad apples (Boston and Clevinger) and poorly performing players.

Interestingly, Clevinger's name starting to pop up more and more on the periphery of top tier FA targets with teams like the Mets Yankees Dodgers.

3 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

Players could still be dumped or added, but in terms of current roster:

• Position Players: 12/10/23  > 2023 Roster 
• Rotation: March - July 2023 > 12/10/23 > Aug-Oct 2023
• Bullpen: March - July 2023 > 12/10/23 = Aug-Oct 2023

Hard to tell until their payroll is known, but if they keep Cease to start the year and can pan out one or two starter projects and two to three reliever projects, they have a good shot at 70-75 wins. 

Two other positives is Getz isn’t doing stupid s%*#, he brought in substantial outside help to assess and develop talent, and they got rid more bad apples (Boston and Clevinger) and poorly performing players.

For the Position players to be better - the changes so far are Sheets is the starting RF, Nicky Lopez is the starting 2b, Stassi is the starting C, and DeJong is the starting SS. Burger is also gone. The only spot that looks like an actual upgrade is, and this is pretty amazing - Nicky Lopez is better than what the White Sox ran out at 2b last year. Sheets was awful and hasn't been replaced. Anderson was awful and was replaced by a guy who was almost as bad. Stassi and Grandal were equally bad. I'd actually take last year's lineup solely because of Burger being present for part of the year, as of now.