Lightly Folded Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 With all the commotion that has been spewed since Jerry’s visit to Springfield and the subsequent interview with Crain’s does anyone really think this thing still has any life left in it? Reinsdorf has been totally reamed by every facet of Chicago and social media to the extent that he’s down for the ten count and the referee is holding up nine fingers. I don’t see how he recovers from this. He’s gone over the last week from being characterized as a miserly old owner to what is now a miserable human being without any positive characteristics left whatsoever. In another note, I’m looking forward to see how badly Warren and/or the Bear ownership family are portrayed when they come out with their want of public funds, which they will, to build their new facility to house their god-awful product. And remember while Ricketts is being portrayed as a saint for using non public money he actually did ask for public money and tried hard to get it. They all do it but for some reason Reinsdorf doing it for some reason is now known as the cities worst person ever for trying what they all try. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Here's the straight up problem. Would it be normal for your city to not only do all those things, but to also literally pay 100% of Amazon's construction costs? You didn't say that or allege that, but that's basically the setup we're seeing. A $1-1.2 billion ballpark, with a $1-$1.2 billion subsidy for the ballpark, combined with an extra $600-$900 million that includes the TIF district and various other tax breaks already established. As far as I can tell, with what Reinsdorf has asked for, the state would be better off just buying the White Sox, building the new ballpark, then selling the White Sox for $1 billion more than they paid for it once the ballpark is complete. The ISFA is already an existing structure within Chicago. It exists specifically for this task, just like any of the other taxing bodies being used in any of these types of deals. You can argue "fairness", but these bodies do exist, and companies are taking advantage of them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, Lightly Folded said: With all the commotion that has been spewed since Jerry’s visit to Springfield and the subsequent interview with Crain’s does anyone really think this thing still has any life left in it? Reinsdorf has been totally reamed by every facet of Chicago and social media to the extent that he’s down for the ten count and the referee is holding up nine fingers. I don’t see how he recovers from this. He’s gone over the last week from being characterized as a miserly old owner to what is now a miserable human being without any positive characteristics left whatsoever. In another note, I’m looking forward to see how badly Warren and/or the Bear ownership family are portrayed when they come out with their want of public funds, which they will, to build their new facility to house their god-awful product. And remember while Ricketts is being portrayed as a saint for using non public money he actually did ask for public money and tried hard to get it. They all do it but for some reason Reinsdorf doing it for some reason is now known as the cities worst person ever for trying what they all try. Caleb Williams...cap space...another high first round draft pick, etc. The future of the Bears at the moment looks light years brighter, at least on the surface. Sox fans have practically lost all hope. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightly Folded Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Just now, caulfield12 said: Caleb Williams...cap space...another high first round draft pick, etc. The future of the Bears at the moment looks light years brighter, at least on the surface. Sox fans have practically lost all hope. Public funds should not be “awarded” because of a possible “bright future” on the field. Your’e either for public funds being used for new stadiums or against public funds being used for new stadiums. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 4 minutes ago, Lightly Folded said: Public funds should not be “awarded” because of a possible “bright future” on the field. Your’e either for public funds being used for new stadiums or against public funds being used for new stadiums. A lot more people would be upset in Chicago if the Bears moved to Nashville than the White Sox. Let Jerry have his son sell the White Sox to someone out of town for spite when he's dead. This clown actually said he can't compete in a division with Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota, and Kansas City because his almost free rent ballpark with upkeep paid for doesn't provide him with enough revenue. And he can't sell the team because he made too much, he'll get hit with too big of a tax bill. I used to actually like the guy, and have stuck up for him plenty. He. Is. An. Asshole. Edited February 23 by Dick Allen 1 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightly Folded Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 8 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: A lot more people would be upset in Chicago if the Bears moved to Nashville than the White Sox. Let Jerry have his son sell the White Sox to someone out of town for spite when he's dead. This clown actually said he can't compete in a division with Cleveland, Detroit, Minnesota, and Kansas City because his almost free rent ballpark with upkeep paid for doesn't provide him with enough revenue. And he can't sell the team because he made too much, he'll get hit with too big of a tax bill. I used to actually like the guy, and have stuck up for him plenty. He. Is. An. Asshole. Sound hypocritical. Using public funds to subsidize the building of the new Bear stadium as opposed to using that money to, let’s say, hire more police officers and using the Reinsdorf saga as a reason for allowing it to happen is not an argument but an excuse. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 31 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said: The ISFA is already an existing structure within Chicago. It exists specifically for this task, just like any of the other taxing bodies being used in any of these types of deals. You can argue "fairness", but these bodies do exist, and companies are taking advantage of them. Aren't there clearly 2 different teams competing for the same pool of money right now though? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 7 minutes ago, Lightly Folded said: Sound hypocritical. Using public funds to subsidize the building of the new Bear stadium as opposed to using that money to, let’s say, hire more police officers and using the Reinsdorf saga as a reason for allowing it to happen is not an argument but an excuse. I don't think either should get billions, but if giving billionaires money must happen, and you want to piss off fewer voters, the Bears would be the obvious choice. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 12 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: Caleb Williams...cap space...another high first round draft pick, etc. The future of the Bears at the moment looks light years brighter, at least on the surface. Sox fans have practically lost all hope. Don't lose hope. The 78 chatter has been a distraction created by the developer who stands to gain millions on that project, not the White Sox. Related already had TIF funding approval about 5 years ago for the 78 but did not proceed for some reason. Instead, they somehow came up with a revised plan to stuff a baseball stadium inside a high rise office park, ostensibly to secure more private/public funding and/or more tax breaks. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightly Folded Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, tray said: Don't lose hope. The 78 chatter has been a distraction created by the developer who stands to gain millions on that project, not the White Sox. Related already had TIF funding approval about 5 years ago for the 78 but did not proceed for some reason. Instead, they somehow came up with a revised plan to stuff a baseball stadium inside a high rise office park, ostensibly to secure more private/public funding and/or more tax breaks. What I’d give to be a fly on the wall in Related’s big boy meeting room to hear what their saying about this project now that it’s been torn to shreds (stadium funding wise) over this past week by every Chicago media outlet and internet groups. Maybe they’ll just scrap the whole thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 Lots of stories, columns today: https://awfulannouncing.com/radio/dan-bernstein-laurence-holmes-jerry-reinsdorf-white-sox-stadium-talks.html https://chicago.suntimes.com/the-watchdogs/2024/02/22/jerry-reinsdorf-united-center-parking-lots-purchasing-white-sox-south-loop-ballpark https://chicago.suntimes.com/city-hall/2024/02/22/reinsdorfs-save-the-sox-for-chicago-argument-has-familiar-ring The last column quotes a political rep who lived in Sarasota the last time JR made his stadium or move pitch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsider2k5 Posted February 23 Author Share Posted February 23 31 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: Aren't there clearly 2 different teams competing for the same pool of money right now though? Seemingly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, Lightly Folded said: What I’d give to be a fly on the wall in Related’s big boy meeting room to hear what their saying about this project now that it’s been torn to shreds (stadium funding wise) over this past week by every Chicago media outlet and internet groups. Maybe they’ll just scrap the whole thing. Related isn't scraping developing their land, they are just looking to develop it with other peoples' money as they have been doing for several years. They were pretty far down the road 5 years ago and something made them scrap that plan. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteSox2023 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 (edited) 17 minutes ago, tray said: Don't lose hope. The 78 chatter has been a distraction created by the developer who stands to gain millions on that project, not the White Sox. Related already had TIF funding approval about 5 years ago for the 78 but did not proceed for some reason. Instead, they somehow came up with a revised plan to stuff a baseball stadium inside a high rise office park, ostensibly to secure more private/public funding and/or more tax breaks. You don’t think the talk of a new ballpark is also a distraction caused by JR to keep fans excited in the team even though the Sox are coming off of an epic failure of a long rebuild and look like they are going to be a terrible team for the next few years? This all benefits our terrible owner as well. Edited February 23 by WhiteSox2023 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightly Folded Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 27 minutes ago, Dick Allen said: I don't think either should get billions, but if giving billionaires money must happen, and you want to piss off fewer voters, the Bears would be the obvious choice. I understand your statement but it just proves that the whole thing is hypocritical should the Bears get public funding simply because they are the Bears. Funding of state and city human being issues should outweigh the Royal family (Bears) needs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 2 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: You don’t think the talk of a new ballpark is also a distraction caused by JR to keep fans excited in the team even though the Sox are coming off of an epic failure of a long rebuild and look like they are going to be a terrible team for the next few years? This all benefits our terrible owner as well. Problem is, the last week has pissed off people even more at Jerry. I feel like I’m one of the few on here that want them to get a new stadium in the city no matter what, but the vitriol being expressed towards him in the media has only increased. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightly Folded Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said: You don’t think the talk of a new ballpark is also a distraction caused by JR to keep fans excited in the team even though the Sox are coming off of an epic failure of a long rebuild and look like they are going to be a terrible team for the next few years? This all benefits our terrible owner as well. I feel as though Jerry’s performance in Springfield and at Crain’s has pretty much let much of the oxygen out of our Sox fandom. The heavy cloud of a potential out of state move is a definite downer to the Sox psyche and I’m worried it’s only going to get worse. If Jerry’s aim was to distract us he succeeded but not towards the team but rather away from the them. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, fathom said: Problem is, the last week has pissed off people even more at Jerry. I feel like I’m one of the few on here that want them to get a new stadium in the city no matter what, but the vitriol being expressed towards him in the media has only increased. He deserves it! They could have been marketing this as a big positive, instead the only thing he's got is "Do this or the team may move and totally that won't be my fault". 5 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightly Folded Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 12 minutes ago, tray said: Related isn't scraping developing their land, they are just looking to develop it with other peoples' money as they have been doing for several years. They were pretty far down the road 5 years ago and something made them scrap that plan. I’d bet Related is in full panic mode right about now. Reinsdorf’s presentation at the Capital and at Crain’s was a complete flop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 4 minutes ago, fathom said: Problem is, the last week has pissed off people even more at Jerry. I feel like I’m one of the few on here that want them to get a new stadium in the city no matter what, but the vitriol being expressed towards him in the media has only increased. I am very pro new South Loop stadium, but goddamn do I not want JR to get one extra cent out of it. I know he will, but my loathe has only increased this week. It's a strange duality loving the team but hating the org and owner that runs it. I think the only way those of us that are for the new park will be totally happy is if JR & other investors foot the bill. And it's pretty much guaranteed that he won't. There will be negatives and downsides to a project of this scale. We just have to hope that this doesn't end up as another case of a billionaire owner getting even richer on the backs of working people. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tnetennba Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: He deserves it! They could have been marketing this as a big positive, instead the only thing he's got is "Do this or the team may move and totally that won't be my fault". The tone deaf jump from shiny new plans to give me my new playground or else was awfully quick. JR deserves every ounce of added bile. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soxfan18 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 32 minutes ago, tray said: Don't lose hope. The 78 chatter has been a distraction created by the developer who stands to gain millions on that project, not the White Sox. Related already had TIF funding approval about 5 years ago for the 78 but did not proceed for some reason. Instead, they somehow came up with a revised plan to stuff a baseball stadium inside a high rise office park, ostensibly to secure more private/public funding and/or more tax breaks. They were part of the Amazon HQ bid, then bid on the casino. There was also a pandemic in the middle of all that. I'd say they have pretty good reasons to not have started anything, but go on with your s%*# logic. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lightly Folded Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 6 minutes ago, Tnetennba said: The tone deaf jump from shiny new plans to give me my new playground or else was awfully quick. JR deserves every ounce of added bile. Jerry deep down is still that young punk kid growing up on the dirty streets of Brooklyn. It’s just his nature which is influenced by his being the product of a much rougher and gruffer generation. That doesn’t excuse though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tray Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 5 minutes ago, Balta1701 said: He deserves it! They could have been marketing this as a big positive, instead the only thing he's got is "Do this or the team may move and totally that won't be my fault". JR has never said that or implied that. Never forget, this all started with Related after they failed when trying to develop that property previously, even with TIF tax incentives. JR was virtually dragged into this by an over zealous developer. Of course he would build in Timbuktu with 2 Billion in public funding, but this whole thing was not his idea. At this point he would be wise to shut this nonsense down because it has been creating uncertainty out of thin air and depressing fans. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted February 23 Share Posted February 23 13 minutes ago, Lightly Folded said: I’d bet Related is in full panic mode right about now. Reinsdorf’s presentation at the Capital and at Crain’s was a complete flop. This was worth a shot from their side, but if they didn't have anyone tell them "Hey, this rich guy who people joke about having half the city hate him and having the feeling be mutual might not be the best marketing guy", such that they'd have some backup plans, then they deserve it too. It would have taken 5 minutes for us to explain to them, for free I should note, exactly what the risks were. If you're making billion dollar decisions involving the White Sox, maybe have someone on the team who understands the White Sox. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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