Sox looking at building in South Loop

[poppysox]

2 hours ago, baseball_gal_aly said:

I'm a Sox fan, but I do not want any billionaires getting a dime of public money for stadiums. They can finance them themselves or go pound sand. I'd rather they move than make us pay for it. It's infuriating when companies do it, but its unconscionable when sports owners do it. 

GRF is still not paid off. 

No owner should get a dime of public money for a stadium from anyone, anywhere. 

Pritzker was just talking about eliminating $1B in medical debt for Illinoisians and that is a MUCH better use of that money. 

Agreed!  Government should not be subsidizing any business over others.  Especially the entertainment business.

[Panerista]

1 minute ago, poppysox said:

Agreed!  Government should not be subsidizing any business over others.  Especially the entertainment business.

yeah it doesn't make any sense. The economic benefits of new stadium projects are not well understood. 

[Balta1701]

2 minutes ago, Panerista said:

yeah it doesn't make any sense. The economic benefits of new stadium projects are not well understood. 

They are actually super well understood. In general they’re not worth the money, especially if the entire stadium is publicly financed. They’re usually awful deals for taxpayers.

This concept is a little different from a normal one since it’s truly a blighted area that may not otherwise be developed. Some money going to put a stadium here is justified.

But not the government paying for the entire stadium and a large fraction of the rest if the development.

[Panerista]

1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

They are actually super well understood. In general they’re not worth the money, especially if the entire stadium is publicly financed. They’re usually awful deals for taxpayers.

This concept is a little different from a normal one since it’s truly a blighted area that may not otherwise be developed. Some money going to put a stadium here is justified.

But not the government paying for the entire stadium and a large fraction of the rest if the development.

Yeah I was being polite. The data that indicate there is some big economic boon is looking at only specific gains but not the big picture.

Edited February 24 by Panerista

[Dick Allen]

It was never Jerry’s or Kenny’s or Rick’s fault the Sox sucked. It was all on Bridgeport. So get this built as fast as you can. They can’t be good until they move. Don’t waste a year.

[soxfan18]

1 hour ago, joejoesox said:

from the way it was explained to me, there won't be any new taxes to IL residents to get what JR is asking for, it just extends the sunset period for the hotel tax another 30 yrs? is that what you guys are hearing?

f*** it, lets do it

(sounds like the bears are now in play for this property as well, so that probably kills any chance the sox get this done)

Sounds like from what? 

[joejoesox]

42 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I think Jerry absolutely has to convince the taxpayers since those are voters. Whether it’s a primary or a general election contest, if this deal is super unpopular then it will appear in campaign ads this year. The primary is March 19.

Im usually ok with a representative democracy as mostly I see direct democracy creating messes. Representation should involve people making trade offs and telling the voters why they got a good deal. So far everything tells Me this is a really bad deal on paper, and I’ve seen zero that shows me different in any coherent way.

Pritzker will be in office as long as he wants.  Dude will be able to out-spend every opponent, just like his first term.  I voted for Biss, who obviously had no chance in hell.

[Lightly Folded]

29 minutes ago, Panerista said:

Jerry Reinsdorf has been the owner of the White Sox my entire life and it turns out he doesn't actually value winning or the fans. 

The Allen Brothers who owned the team from 1961 to 1975 were the worst owners I ever witnessed. Actually John Allen screwed his brother out of his shares and took sole ownership from 1969 until the end in 1975. Sorry I called you a Cubs fan. Obviously your not.

[Panerista]

5 minutes ago, Lightly Folded said:

The Allen Brothers who owned the team from 1961 to 1975 were the worst owners I ever witnessed. Actually John Allen screwed his brother out of his shares and took sole ownership from 1969 until the end in 1975. Sorry I called you a Cubs fan. Obviously your not.

All good. sorry for the escalation.

[RTC]

2 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Getting revenge by us not ending up with a world class stadium and possibly losing the team?  Again, you guys care more about Jerry losing than the Sox winning.

Think about what that says about how a lot of people feel about this organization.  Think about what is driving those feelings, that they’re that crazy.  It’s THAT bad. 

[RTC]

2 hours ago, Lightly Folded said:

I guess being a Sox fan isn’t a lifetime commitment for everyone.

It is.  Which is why people will argue tooth and nail for a well-run organization.  This thread would be 2 pages if people didn’t care. 

[NO!!MARY!!!]

8 hours ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

If it comes to fruition is tbd, but there's a proposal for that spot in addition so....

The City has a chance to develop a plot of land around small business and residential -- no huge office space being wasted. How it's paid for really is semantical because there's no world that exists in which a huge project like this gets funded the way YOU want. That's just the truth.

Reading pages and pages of Sox fan fight against the betterment of the organization and its long term health, all in the name of principals that are only being applied to the White Sox, is truly baffling. The amount of people that want to see the org die on this forum is beyond odd.

It’s even worse on Facebook. People there are proudly proclaiming they should move, all because they don’t like the owner. They would rather lose the team because of that. It’s pathetic. 

[RTC]

2 hours ago, Lightly Folded said:

I’ve been a Sox fan since I was 5 years old which was 65 years ago. My father who was born in 1910 was a Sox Sox fan since he was knee high to a grasshopper. My grandfather was there when the Sox  played on Wentworth avenue  before old comiskey was built. That’s generational commitment.  You don’t quit a lifetime commitment because of a Jerry Reinsdorf. 

Agree 100%.  But you can be pissed as hell that JR poisoned your lifetime commitment.  Those two things are not mutually exclusive. 

Edited February 24 by RTC

[NO!!MARY!!!]

7 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

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Jesus Christ. 

[77 Hitmen]

1 hour ago, Balta1701 said:

If this is a win win, if the city and state are going to come out of this well; then where is the detailed set of tax and economic analyses that support this? Show that to Sox fans and to taxpayers. Let the plan market itself if it’s such a win.

What is Reinsdorf’s opening argument? “Give me all the money or your team walks”. First public interview, opening lines of the Crains article are a threat. 

If it’s a win-win, then you shouldn’t be threatening your fans and taxpayers. Again.

 

1 hour ago, ScootsMcGoots said:

While Jerry's strength is certainly not getting the public on his side...I honestly don't think it matters what the fans think. It doesn't matter what taxpayers think. All he has to do is convince the politicians (who are wealthy just like he is). Jerry's got connections and influence. And a lot of money. In the end, it doesn't matter what we think. He'll get what he wants. One way or another.

EDIT: it SHOULD be ultimately up to the people, though. I don't understand why this plan isn't put on some kind of ballot to be voted on by the citizens.

Maybe Jerry needs to hire a good PR guy to do all the talking to the public.  Every time he opens his mouth, he pisses off and alienates the fan base.  This is just who he is and he's been a walking PR disaster for 43 years.  The man is completely incapable of showing even an ounce of empathy to the fans.

I have to wonder if Related Midwest does a collective face palm every time they read another JR quote in the media.

As someone who hopes this new park gets built, I just hope Jerry is better at talking to the politicians than he is at talking to the fans.

[77 Hitmen]

16 minutes ago, NO!!MARY!!! said:

It’s even worse on Facebook. People there are proudly proclaiming they should move, all because they don’t like the owner. They would rather lose the team because of that. It’s pathetic. 

And the owner they hate turns 88 this weekend.  I can't stand him and what he's done this franchise either, but do people  really think he's still going to be the owner in 10 years?   

He's not going to be around forever.  But if the Sox move out of town, it will be forever.  So diehard Sox fans should be careful what they wish for and also shouldn't be so eager to tell their state reps they're fine with the Sox leaving town....in fact they prefer it!

 

Edited February 24 by 77 Hitmen

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, Lightly Folded said:

The Allen Brothers who owned the team from 1961 to 1975 were the worst owners I ever witnessed. Actually John Allen screwed his brother out of his shares and took sole ownership from 1969 until the end in 1975. Sorry I called you a Cubs fan. Obviously your not.

History lesson time:

First off the Sox had eight winning seasons (including back-to-back-back seasons from 63-65 with 90+ wins) and a .500 season under their watch.

Second John Allyn TWICE saved the franchise from being moved. Art had a handshake agreement with (Proud To Be Your) "Bud" Selig who was moving them to Milwaukee. John insisted that if Art wanted to do this he'd have to bring it up and get approval from the Artnell Company Board of Directors. Art decided not to do that (who knows why) and sold the team to him.

Then instead of selling the club to Seattle interests, who were going to move the franchise so that MLB would have the lawsuits settled from Washington State, King County and the city of Seattle over the Pilots move, he kept the club and sold it to Bill Veeck instead.

The original MLB plan was for the Sox to move to Seattle and Charlie Finley was bringing the A's to Chicago.

The Allyn's had their faults but they were far from the worst owners. 

 

 

[ron883]

1 hour ago, joejoesox said:

Pritzker will be in office as long as he wants.  Dude will be able to out-spend every opponent, just like his first term.  I voted for Biss, who obviously had no chance in hell.

The guy could be looking at a presidential run in 2028 if he wants. 

[Lip Man 1]

5 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

And the owner they hate turns 88 this weekend.  I can't stand him and what he's done this franchise either, but do people  really think he's still going to be the owner in 10 years?   

He's not going to be around forever.  But if the Sox move out of town, it will be forever.  So diehard Sox fans should be careful what they wish for and also shouldn't be so eager to tell their state reps they're fine with the Sox leaving town....in fact they prefer it!

 

As has been pointed out by others MLB is not going to move a franchise with a viable stadium in place and making money which would take up a more valuable potential expansion city (and the resulting millions of dollars that would be paid out for the right to get one.)

They also would not concede, in my opinion, the third largest market to the National League.

I for one, aren't losing a wink of sleep over the threat by JR of the Sox moving. As he said himself publicly, back in 88 the threat was made purely for leverage. He had no intention of moving. 

And as you say he won't be around in 10 years, new ownership (since he has told his family to sell the Sox) may want a new stadium and won't have to fight the baggage that JR has brought upon himself with his ego and arrogance.

The well won't have been poisoned with new ownership making such a request and hopefully clearly saying they intend to at least pay their share instead of coming across as tone-deaf and bullying. 

[Big Hurtin]

2 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Plus a sales tax capture if the stories are right. But the tag line is no "new" taxes for sure

Also a football stadium would not fit on this site.

Read my lips...

[77 Hitmen]

6 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

As has been pointed out by others MLB is not going to move a franchise with a viable stadium in place and making money which would take up a more valuable potential expansion city (and the resulting millions of dollars that would be paid out for the right to get one.)

They also would not concede, in my opinion, the third largest market to the National League.

I for one, aren't losing a wink of sleep over the threat by JR of the Sox moving. As he said himself publicly, back in 88 the threat was made purely for leverage. He had no intention of moving. 

And as you say he won't be around in 10 years, new ownership (since he has told his family to sell the Sox) may want a new stadium and won't have to fight the baggage that JR has brought upon himself with his ego and arrogance.

The well won't have been poisoned with new ownership making such a request and hopefully clearly saying they intend to at least pay their share instead of coming across as tone-deaf and bullying. 

Oh, I agree that the veiled threat of the Sox relocating is an empty one.  MLB wants to grant an expansion franchise to Nashville and not have that city taken out of consideration by a team who is leaving a huge TV market and a perfectly functional ballpark.  I was just reacting to some fans who seem to be wishing and hoping for this team to move out of town rather than getting even a dime of public financing just like 95% of every other MLB teams do.

I don't agree that being an AL vs an NL team matters anymore, though.  Every team plays the all 29 other teams each year now.  I wouldn't be surprised if MLB tries to push radical realignment at some point that will totally trash any semblance of an American League and National League.

 

[soxfan18]

7 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

Oh, I agree that the veiled threat of the Sox relocating is an empty one.  MLB wants to grant an expansion franchise to Nashville and not have that city taken out of consideration by a team who is leaving a huge TV market and a perfectly functional ballpark.  I was just reacting to some fans who seem to be wishing and hoping for this team to move out of town rather than getting even a dime of public financing just like 95% of every other MLB teams do.

I don't agree that being an AL vs an NL team matters anymore, though.  Every team plays the all 29 other teams each year now.  I wouldn't be surprised if MLB tries to push radical realignment at some point that will totally trash any semblance of an American League and National League.

 

The leagues don't matter, correct, but 14 NL owners would vote NO on conceding Chicago to the Cubs. 

[NO!!MARY!!!]

1 hour ago, Lightly Folded said:

The Allen Brothers who owned the team from 1961 to 1975 were the worst owners I ever witnessed. Actually John Allen screwed his brother out of his shares and took sole ownership from 1969 until the end in 1975. Sorry I called you a Cubs fan. Obviously your not.

What? John Allyn did no such thing, where are you getting that? Arthur Allyn wanted to sell the team to Bud Selig, who was going to move them to Milwaukee. John was a silent partner who controlled half the votes on the Board of Directors and he refused to authorize the sale. Art wanted out, so he sold out. 
 

I do know that Art sued John years later over unpaid money from the sale, but the sale itself was about keeping the team in Chicago. 

[South Side Hit Men]

20 minutes ago, soxfan18 said:

The leagues don't matter, correct, but 14 NL owners would vote NO on conceding Chicago to the Cubs. 

I'm not sure that would be the overriding reason vs. all the owners opposing because:

1. Pissing away a viable $2B expansion team location.
2. Shifting a team from revenue sharing payor to revenue sharing recipient, which all the remaining American cities without an MLB team would be based on their very small population and purchasing power.

Also, regardless of what short-term boost a team may get from moving to a much smaller market willing to hand out more corporate welfare, long term a team will make more staying in Chicago than moving to Portland, Nashville, Salt Lake City or Charlotte.

The Athletics will be worth less over time in Vegas than if they accepted one of the solid offers they received in Oakland. There will continue to be far more demand for Golden Knights tickets than John Fisher's A's will merit. Vegas could work if done right, but few people, even the Chamber of Commerce, is enthusiastic getting John Fisher and his garbage organization he nuked since purchasing, 

Jerry would be worth far less if they moved to Tampa, and the new ownership group will be worth less in Nashville over time than if they stayed in Chicago. Doubt sitting outside in Nashville in the Summer will be an attractive proposition, especially since baseball ranks behind several sports options including the SEC, NFL, NBA, NASCAR, possibly their NHL team. 

MLB also backtracked from expansion is inevitable as soon as Oakland and Tampa's stadium schemes are resolved to Manfred wants to approve expansion before leaving in 2029. People in various cities across the country are fighting the obscene grift. Perhaps 70 years too late in most of America, but better late than never.

Edited February 24 by South Side Hit Men

[NO!!MARY!!!]

1 hour ago, 77 Hitmen said:

 

Maybe Jerry needs to hire a good PR guy to do all the talking to the public.  Every time he opens his mouth, he pisses off and alienates the fan base.  This is just who he is and he's been a walking PR disaster for 43 years.  The man is completely incapable of showing even an ounce of empathy to the fans.

I have to wonder if Related Midwest does a collective face palm every time they read another JR quote in the media.

As someone who hopes this new park gets built, I just hope Jerry is better at talking to the politicians than he is at talking to the fans.

Eddie Einhorn realized this more than 30 years ago. When the team hired a PR firm back in the late 80s, one of the first things said firm advised was for Einhorn to assume a low profile. Reinsdorf has no people skills from what I can see. 

Edited February 24 by NO!!MARY!!!