5 minutes ago, A-Train to 35th said:

How can anyone listen to Bernstein, I gave up listening to raving lunatics on sports radio years ago, now I just go to SOXTALK to get my fill.

It’s nice to hear Reinsdorf and the Sox get called out publicly for their dysfunctional management of the team.

4 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

Well I am personally thrilled we made you the arbitor of what is relevant or not at Soxtalk.

Well, it’s a matter of fact. For example, he said he was concerned how therapy helped Clevinger and wants the Sox to address it. Since he was not disciplined by MLB or convicted by a court, he was not subject to mandated therapy. Therefore, his concern is in fact irrelevant to the situation

isn't what Clevinger presumably did (severe child abuse) way worse than what Bauer was accused to have done

all I know is what I've read recently that the woman consented to then use it against him to make some cash

child abuse, burning a kid with cigarettes is fucking abhorrent 

33 minutes ago, 4OCS said:

Well, it’s a matter of fact. For example, he said he was concerned how therapy helped Clevinger and wants the Sox to address it. Since he was not disciplined by MLB or convicted by a court, he was not subject to mandated therapy. Therefore, his concern is in fact irrelevant to the situation

You don't get to invalidate anyone's opinions. I don't know why you think this, but I assure you we don't need your help with page moderation.

I get someone being upset/not liking him due to the allegations.  At the same time, I feel like the reactions to him are very extreme.  Someone like Aroldis Chapman had more concrete allegations and when the Cubs had him, it was all "Well, sometimes athletes are unsavory characters.  Theo wants to win" type vibes. 

I don't know what Clevinger did or didn't do.  I do know that they had him around the team for a season.  I find it hard to believe that they'd bring him back if it was as black and white as people on the outside act. 

I don't personally like the guy but get some innings out of him, hope he's good.  Trade him for a piece if he does well. 

Can't help but think that a lot of the people saying they aren't fans anymore or they want the team to move are being a little performative.  

2 hours ago, JoeC said:

All cynicism aside, other than his off-the-field issues, what else kept him from a) being traded at the deadline; b) signing for cheap with a team that has any semblance of hope?

his off field issues include stamping out lit cigarettes on his child. you wanna ask why no other team wanted him at the deadline, should be asking why the Sox were willing to look the other way

1 minute ago, joejoesox said:

his off field issues include stamping out lit cigarettes on his child. you wanna ask why no other team wanted him at the deadline, should be asking why the Sox were willing to look the other way

I don't remember this being an allegation.  I thought she said they got into a fight and he got angry and threw a bottle of dip spit and it got on the baby.  Obviously very bad, but it is much different than deliberately taking a lit cigarette and stamping it out on a baby.  That's like psychotic s%*#. 

17 hours ago, Bob Sacamano said:

No upside to this move other than innings

I think the front office is realizing just how bad this team is and needs an arm to throw out there. This on paper is one of the worst teams in MLB modern history.

1 hour ago, A-Train to 35th said:

How can anyone listen to Bernstein, I gave up listening to raving lunatics on sports radio years ago, now I just go to SOXTALK to get my fill.

Bernstein is great. I like him. 

1 hour ago, A-Train to 35th said:

How can anyone listen to Bernstein, I gave up listening to raving lunatics on sports radio years ago, now I just go to SOXTALK to get my fill.

Who ya crappin'?

18 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

I get someone being upset/not liking him due to the allegations.  At the same time, I feel like the reactions to him are very extreme.  Someone like Aroldis Chapman had more concrete allegations and when the Cubs had him, it was all "Well, sometimes athletes are unsavory characters.  Theo wants to win" type vibes. 

I don't know what Clevinger did or didn't do.  I do know that they had him around the team for a season.  I find it hard to believe that they'd bring him back if it was as black and white as people on the outside act. 

I don't personally like the guy but get some innings out of him, hope he's good.  Trade him for a piece if he does well. 

Can't help but think that a lot of the people saying they aren't fans anymore or they want the team to move are being a little performative.  

?

24 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

I get someone being upset/not liking him due to the allegations.  At the same time, I feel like the reactions to him are very extreme.  Someone like Aroldis Chapman had more concrete allegations and when the Cubs had him, it was all "Well, sometimes athletes are unsavory characters.  Theo wants to win" type vibes. 

I don't know what Clevinger did or didn't do.  I do know that they had him around the team for a season.  I find it hard to believe that they'd bring him back if it was as black and white as people on the outside act. 

I don't personally like the guy but get some innings out of him, hope he's good.  Trade him for a piece if he does well. 

Can't help but think that a lot of the people saying they aren't fans anymore or they want the team to move are being a little performative.  

It isn't right but fans are more willing to forgive having unsavory characters if their team is actually good and/or the player is a premium talent.  The White Sox are going to be atrocious this year with or without Clevinger and he is a mediocre pitcher. 

1 hour ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Not going to lie, I put The Score on the day after the White Sox doing something stupid, whether on or off the field, because they deserve it.

Yr an everyday listener then. Im same way

8 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

It isn't right but fans are more willing to forgive having unsavory characters if their team is actually good and/or the player is a premium talent.  The White Sox are going to be atrocious this year with or without Clevinger and he is a mediocre pitcher. 

I get it... but if one is taking such a strong stance in support victims of abuse, its very bizarre that they lose their principles or make an exception based on how good the team or the player is.  What's the winning percentage that makes domestic abuse tolerable?  To me, that's more gross. 

32 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

his off field issues include stamping out lit cigarettes on his child. you wanna ask why no other team wanted him at the deadline, should be asking why the Sox were willing to look the other way

Yeah, not saying his off-field issues aren't a thing.
Just wondering what other red flags there are, or if it's 100% about the off-field issues / abuse allegations.

4 minutes ago, JoeC said:

Yeah, not saying his off-field issues aren't a thing.
Just wondering what other red flags there are, or if it's 100% about the off-field issues / abuse allegations.

Google Francona Clevinger Covid or Puig Clevinger Bauer together

51 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

You don't get to invalidate anyone's opinions. I don't know why you think this, but I assure you we don't need your help with page moderation.

It’s not a matter of opinion. How are the white sox or Clevinger supposed to comment on “mlb mandated therapy” when there was, in fact, no “mlb mandated therapy?” Since, as a matter of fact, Clevinger was not disciplined under MLB domestic policy? Come on, man! And I don’t know wtf you are talking about with the “help with page moderation.” Did I say he isn’t entitled to be wrong or something?

Edited April 2, 20241 yr by 4OCS

Sure everyone is entitled to their opinion, but if an argument is based on false premises then the argument can not be considered sound. That is first chapter logic 101.

9 minutes ago, 4OCS said:

It’s not a matter of opinion. How are the white sox or Clevinger supposed to comment on “mlb mandated therapy” when there was, in fact, no “mlb mandated therapy?” Since, as a matter of fact, Clevinger was not disciplined under MLB domestic policy? Come on, man! And I don’t know wtf you are talking about with the “help with page moderation.” Did I say he isn’t entitled to be wrong or something?

Evaluations and or therapy provided by experts in evaluating, assessing, and treating persons involved in child abuse, domestic violence and or drug abuse are not considered discipline you pathetic obtuse asshat.

Clevinger specifically fully agreed to evaluations by these professions, and if recommended a treatment plan.

28 minutes ago, Nardiwashere said:

I get it... but if one is taking such a strong stance in support victims of abuse, its very bizarre that they lose their principles or make an exception based on how good the team or the player is.  What's the winning percentage that makes domestic abuse tolerable?  To me, that's more gross. 

Idk man but marrying into a Penn State family, every time I see them play football, I ponder this question 

Just now, South Side Hit Men said:

Evaluations and or therapy provided by experts in evaluating, assessing, and treating persons involved in child abuse, domestic violence and or drug abuse are not considered discipline you pathetic obtuse asshat.

Clevinger specifically fully agreed to evaluations by these professions, and if recommended a treatment plan.

So where’s your evidence that as a result of the voluntary evaluation, he  subsequently underwent “mlb mandated therapy?” A voluntary evaluation is not therapy. He couldn’t have undergone mandated therapy, since that is part of the disciplinary process, from which he was cleared by MLB. MLB could only trigger the therapy mandate in the case where he was found in violation of the policy, which he was not. All of this is fact, not a matter of opinion.
 

As a matter of fact, “mlb mandated therapy” is a part of the mlb domestic abuse policy discipline, which again is not a matter of opinion. If compliance is required as a result of a decision, that is discipline by definition. Since he was not disciplined by MLB, there was no mlb mandated therapy for him to attest to. That’s why he was never subsequently disciplined for maintaining his innocence before, during and after the investigation, which again, he was in actual fact cleared by MLB. Therefore, it is unreasonable to demand an account of something that never happened

 

1 hour ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

It isn't right but fans are more willing to forgive having unsavory characters if their team is actually good and/or the player is a premium talent.  The White Sox are going to be atrocious this year with or without Clevinger and he is a mediocre pitcher. 

Mediocre is damn fine Around This Place. 

12 hours ago, South Side Hit Men said:

I will wait to see whether Getz and Clevinger address concerns regarding his clubhouse presence, management of his domestic violence proclivities, including how the MLB mandated personal therapy sessions may help him better manage his interactions with his children, family, and society.

Just in case anyone missed what I am referencing here. SSHM was in fact claiming that MLB mandated therapy for Clevinger, which is clearly not the case, since MLB can not mandate therapy or “management of domestic violence proclivities” in a case where the player was found to be not in violation. 

Edited April 2, 20241 yr by 4OCS

48 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Google Francona Clevinger Covid or Puig Clevinger Bauer together

Yep - aware of all of that.

I guess my question is if other teams saw on-field red flags, not just off-field red flags... but I suppose that doesn't matter at this point, really.

According to recent forbes article, 45.7% of americans can’t tell the difference between facts and opinion. I’d argue this thread provides a pretty good anecdotal support to the claim. That is a matter of opinion, of course, just to be clear.

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/brycehoffman/2024/03/17/facts-and-opinions-half-of-americans-dont-know-the-difference/?sh=5faef4ff2fe2