almagest Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 https://x.com/haffball7/status/1909609219793314222 Guessing Ryan Fuller has something to do with this. Good stat with some promise, not leading to a good outcome yet though. This is a talent maximization strategy, but you still need talent to maximize. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleAleSox Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 It is very promising as an overall development. The issue right now is who is actually taking the swings. A good swing decision by Amaya is still a bad swing. I do feel like the bases are more crowded this year than last year, they just aren't doing anything with it. Robert being half as good as he is supposed to be would help. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lip Man 1 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 They are taking great swings...and have scored 32 runs in 10 games. Sometimes stats can be a little misleading. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted April 9 Author Share Posted April 9 6 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: They are taking great swings...and have scored 32 runs in 10 games. Sometimes stats can be a little misleading. Like I said, this is a talent maximization strategy, but you still need talent to maximize. 5 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nrockway Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Robert has been terrible to start the season but his approach at the plate has clearly "advanced". His walk rate is way up (almost double, though it's just 40 plate appearances) and is in the 72nd percentile of MLB to start the season. He's laying off obviously bad pitches and even close pitches. But I worry he's "thinking too much" compared to his typical free-swinging style and can't make contact anymore. Is he a good enough player to put it all together? I think so. The offense is terrible again but qualitatively it looks better than it did last year. There have already been two offensive explosions, was there a single one last season? You have to imagine it takes time for players to make adjustments. Of course we saw Maton hit the hardest ball of his career, Sosa and Baldwin look like they might be improved offensively. Cool post, pretty surprising that they're "number 1" in any hitting category, but it strikes me as accurate. Now tell me what Vaughn's problem is. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 1 hour ago, almagest said: https://x.com/haffball7/status/1909609219793314222 Guessing Ryan Fuller has something to do with this. Good stat with some promise, not leading to a good outcome yet though. This is a talent maximization strategy, but you still need talent to maximize. How bad will it be when they stop making good swing decisions? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FloydBannister1983 Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 29 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said: They are taking great swings...and have scored 32 runs in 10 games. Sometimes stats can be a little misleading. It means it will be a disaster when they come back to earth and don’t make great swings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 Considering their output, this ain't a good flex. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaleAleSox Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 7 minutes ago, Quin said: Considering their output, this ain't a good flex. But, I mean, it kind of is? It's at least showing that their hitting PLAN is being utilized and taught. They just have incredibly bad players. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 1 hour ago, Lip Man 1 said: They are taking great swings...and have scored 32 runs in 10 games. Sometimes stats can be a little misleading. Not taking great swings, making good decisions on when to swing. Clearly they aren’t impacting the baseball enough when do swing and actually make contact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 3 hours ago, PaleAleSox said: But, I mean, it kind of is? It's at least showing that their hitting PLAN is being utilized and taught. They just have incredibly bad players. If the team is collectively hitting below the Mendoza line, then no, I can't say it is. But also, this data is already out of date because of small sample sizes. The Angels are petty much neck and neck with the Sox and they're getting a boost from Moncada slashing his O-Swing% in half (again, small sample size) and carrying a .385 OBP. So if the Angels can take the same strategy and fix Moncada, the Sox should feasibly be able to get production out of their guys who are underperforming relative to their talent level. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 4 hours ago, FloydBannister1983 said: How bad will it be when they stop making good swing decisions? Can’t be any worse. I say when they go back to bad swings, they will score more 🥹 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chick Mercedes Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 1 hour ago, Quin said: If the team is collectively hitting below the Mendoza line, then no, I can't say it is. But also, this data is already out of date because of small sample sizes. The Angels are petty much neck and neck with the Sox and they're getting a boost from Moncada slashing his O-Swing% in half (again, small sample size) and carrying a .385 OBP. So if the Angels can take the same strategy and fix Moncada, the Sox should feasibly be able to get production out of their guys who are underperforming relative to their talent level. Moncada is fixed! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Quin Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 27 minutes ago, Chick Mercedes said: Moncada is fixed! I guess this is my bad for not adding quote marks or any sarcasm indicator, because I know Moncada is the ultimate bait for people. It was meant to hammer home the fact that it's a small sample size. The Angels are neck and neck with the Sox and Moncada is contributing to that. But unless Moncada completely revamped his approach, that's probably not gonna last. Right now the Sox are horrendous at hitting and would be far and away the worst offensive team if not for two outlier games. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 6 hours ago, Quin said: Considering their output, this ain't a good flex. I disagree. This is a positive development. Making good swing decisions is a good thing no matter how you spin it. It’s just that the hitters making the swing decisions aren’t MLB caliber. But if this trend continues when the prospects come up, that will be very promising. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
almagest Posted April 10 Author Share Posted April 10 In 2024, the Sox were 27th in O-Swing%, 14th in Z-Swing%, 18th in O-Contact%, 20th in Z-Contact%, and 4th in pitches seen in the Zone%. In 2025, the Sox so far are 7th in O-Swing%, 12th in Z-Swing%, 26th in O-Contact%, 21st in Z-Contact%, and again 4th in pitches seen in the Zone%. So far they're much better at not swinging at pitches outside the zone, average at swinging at pitches in the zone, worse at (as in they make more) contact when they swing at pitches outside the zone, and about the same at contact in the zone and in how many pitches they see in the strike zone. Overall, some positive trends, but the lack of talent means teams can fill the strike zone against the Sox and they can't do a whole lot to punish that. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSoxFanMike Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 8 minutes ago, almagest said: In 2024, the Sox were 27th in O-Swing%, 14th in Z-Swing%, 18th in O-Contact%, 20th in Z-Contact%, and 4th in pitches seen in the Zone%. In 2025, the Sox so far are 7th in O-Swing%, 12th in Z-Swing%, 26th in O-Contact%, 21st in Z-Contact%, and again 4th in pitches seen in the Zone%. So far they're much better at not swinging at pitches outside the zone, average at swinging at pitches in the zone, worse at (as in they make more) contact when they swing at pitches outside the zone, and about the same at contact in the zone and in how many pitches they see in the strike zone. Overall, some positive trends, but the lack of talent means teams can fill the strike zone against the Sox and they can't do a whole lot to punish that. You worded it a lot better than how I did. I lost track of how many 5, 6, 7 pitch innings opposing pitchers had last year. At least they are working counts now and putting up better at-bats on a daily basis. But like you said, these guys just aren’t that talented to begin with. Fuller can only do so much with the guys he has been given. Can’t turn them into Ohtani and Judge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dominikk85 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 I like some of the underlying data early on. Chase rate: 2024: 33.8% (27th) 2025: 31.2% (15th) Pull% 2024: 38.1% (29) 2025: 42.4% (10) This is a sign of slight improvement in the approach, the free swing opposite field approach of the last 5-6 years really isn't the way to go unless you have several elite hit tool guys which they have not. Still of course the overall product on the field isn't good yet, especially since some of the lowest chase rate guys aren't really players with future impact or trade value (Mason, thaiss, tauchman) but it is a good sign they are trying stuff. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 14 hours ago, almagest said: https://x.com/haffball7/status/1909609219793314222 Guessing Ryan Fuller has something to do with this. Good stat with some promise, not leading to a good outcome yet though. This is a talent maximization strategy, but you still need talent to maximize. Swing decisions is 99% the players/team makeup. I certainly wouldn't credit a new coach given how difficult and challenging changing even one players swing and pitch decision/identification. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 7 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Swing decisions is 99% the players/team makeup. I certainly wouldn't credit a new coach given how difficult and challenging changing even one players swing and pitch decision/identification. Right. It’s not as easy telling someone to stop swinging at bad pitches or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Swing decisions is 99% the players/team makeup. I certainly wouldn't credit a new coach given how difficult and challenging changing even one players swing and pitch decision/identification. Veterans Maton Thaiss and Tauchman combined still don't equal the trade value of Martin Perez to the Orioles...the three best swing decision guys. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 9 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said: Right. It’s not as easy telling someone to stop swinging at bad pitches or something. It's in innate part of the player and by far the most challenging thing to change. Sox have been working with Robert for 5 years on this, and his solution appears to be just taking more pitchers by default, for example: Robert is actually swinging at fewer pitches in the zone vs his career. Is he swinging at fewer out of the zone too? Yup, so he's just squating on more pitches. Which I'd argue is bad because he's also making contact on fewer pitches in the zone which is more important than making contact with a few more pitches out of the zone where the contact is weaker. This overall approach, so far, has hurt Robert significantly. He's getting killed by the fastball up and in because he's late because he's worried about being patient. Robert changing his pitch selection has effectively slowed his reaction time imo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boopa1219 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 13 hours ago, Quin said: Considering their output, this ain't a good flex. It’s a very good flex. This is hopefully something that takes hold throughout the org and becomes a trend. Imagine this stat with good players. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheBooneLoganEra Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 I'd rather they be first in that old, archaic stat RBI'S. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted April 10 Share Posted April 10 33 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said: I'd rather they be first in that old, archaic stat RBI'S. Or, maybe wins...? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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