Is “The 78” Dead? Or even more alive? Fire announce plans for SSS

[77 Hitmen]

17 hours ago, DoUEvenShift said:

The Chicago White Sox of Northwest Indiana

Fans can't wait to pay something like $10 in tolls to get there via the Skyway or deal with all that awful traffic (including lots of huge trucks) on the Borman Expressway!  Say hello to Miami Marlins-level attendance numbers.

[77 Hitmen]

12 hours ago, nrockway said:

I don't think it's likely but there are plenty of large media markets with 0 MLB teams and Chicago is frankly declining. It's just not something to rule out entirely. Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington is a growing statistical area, roughly the same size of Chicago's, which is shrinking. It could handle two teams especially in Dallas proper. Charlotte's MSA is quite large, growing, with 0 MLB teams. Indianapolis could draw an MLB team. or Virginia Beach or San Jose. It doesn't have to be specifically Nashville. Building a brand new ballpark is fundamentally the same idea regardless of what city it is in. Especially when there isn't a giant fan base. I think all of the Sox fans in existence post on this forum and many live outside Illinois (don't watch them on local TV, don't attend games). There is room to both move and to expand, clearly the Oakland team didn't care about leaving a large, wealthy market. Although quite a bit smaller than Chicago's, I think the parallels between Oakland A's and San Fran Giants is similar to the Sox and Cubs. Oakland is kind of like the South Side (the locale is also preferable to SF imo, I was debating a move to the Lake Merritt area but moved back to Chicago instead for some reason). New York could easily handle a third team.

I think they'll go where the gettin is good and I think Illinois/Chicago will inevitably play ball in some capacity even if it isn't a direct subsidy...so a move is unlikely in this sense. I bet there are more grants to apply for here than in Tennessee...a transit-oriented development, some structures/programs that help the poor. Doing something LEED-certified. Even the Republican dominated US Congress appears to be in the works of passing a bill that will give more public money to developers for environmental remediation (ie at the 78). But I bet the team under new ownership will analyze all options available to them for a new ballpark. It might be out of town. 

I just wouldn't rule it out is all. I don't think this Ishbia guy is some big ol Sox fan, he's just some guy that wanted to buy a ball team and the Minnesota team has a lot more debt, no more opportunity for new real estate development. I think it would be a mistake if the public didn't invest. 

 Each MLB team has exclusive territorial rights to certain metro areas.  The Rangers would never in a million years allow a 2nd team in the DFW metro area.  While I agree that the NYC area (perhaps in NJ) could support a 3rd team, the Yankees and Mets own the rights to that area and would never allow it.   

The A's tried to get a stadium built in San Jose, but the Giants own the rights to that area and blocked that attempt.  Ironically, a couple of decades ago the A's ceded the San Jose rights to the Giants when they were looking for a new ballpark.

[77 Hitmen]

19 hours ago, WBWSF said:

i hope you're right about an announcement for the new stadium in the next few months. I will feel alot better about this situation if there was announcement coming soon. I don't see any other options for a new stadium except the South Loop. Where else would a stadium be built?

It'll either the current site (renovated current stadium or maybe a new stadium on the north side of 35th) or the 78.  IMO, any other location is much, much worse. 

For all the flaws of the 35th and Shields location, why would Arlington Heights or NW Indiana be any better?  AH will work great for the Bears and their once a week, 10x a year mostly on Sunday afternoons schedule and their massive fan base, but good luck trying to get enough Sox fans to drive out to Arlington Park 81x year such that they draw at least 2.5M people there year in and year out.   A suburban baseball village seems to be working for the Braves, but Atlanta is perhaps the most-sprawled city in America.  I don't see it as a template for success for the Sox, especially since the NW suburbs is predominantly Cubs fans.

[WBWSF]

44 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

It'll either the current site (renovated current stadium or maybe a new stadium on the north side of 35th) or the 78.  IMO, any other location is much, much worse. 

For all the flaws of the 35th and Shields location, why would Arlington Heights or NW Indiana be any better?  AH will work great for the Bears and their once a week, 10x a year mostly on Sunday afternoons schedule and their massive fan base, but good luck trying to get enough Sox fans to drive out to Arlington Park 81x year such that they draw at least 2.5M people there year in and year out.   A suburban baseball village seems to be working for the Braves, but Atlanta is perhaps the most-sprawled city in America.  I don't see it as a template for success for the Sox, especially since the NW suburbs is predominantly Cubs fans.

I've often wondered what Southwest suburb would be good for  a  White Sox stadium.  I live in that area and there are alot of White Sox fans out here. If they built a stadium in Arlington Heights you would be moving the team away from their fan base. At one time Rosemont seemed to be interested in building a stadium for the White Sox.  That also would be away from their fan base.

[fathom]

2 minutes ago, WBWSF said:

I've often wondered what Southwest suburb would be good for  a  White Sox stadium.  I live in that area and there are alot of White Sox fans out here. If they built a stadium in Arlington Heights you would be moving the team away from their fan base. At one time Rosemont seemed to be interested in building a stadium for the White Sox.  That also would be away from their fan base.

Tinley/Orland

[waltwilliams]

14 hours ago, nrockway said:

I don't think it's likely but there are plenty of large media markets with 0 MLB teams and Chicago is frankly declining. It's just not something to rule out entirely. Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington is a growing statistical area, roughly the same size of Chicago's, which is shrinking. It could handle two teams especially in Dallas proper. Charlotte's MSA is quite large, growing, with 0 MLB teams. Indianapolis could draw an MLB team. or Virginia Beach or San Jose. It doesn't have to be specifically Nashville. Building a brand new ballpark is fundamentally the same idea regardless of what city it is in. Especially when there isn't a giant fan base. I think all of the Sox fans in existence post on this forum and many live outside Illinois (don't watch them on local TV, don't attend games). There is room to both move and to expand, clearly the Oakland team didn't care about leaving a large, wealthy market. Although quite a bit smaller than Chicago's, I think the parallels between Oakland A's and San Fran Giants is similar to the Sox and Cubs. Oakland is kind of like the South Side (the locale is also preferable to SF imo, I was debating a move to the Lake Merritt area but moved back to Chicago instead for some reason). New York could easily handle a third team.

I think they'll go where the gettin is good and I think Illinois/Chicago will inevitably play ball in some capacity even if it isn't a direct subsidy...so a move is unlikely in this sense. I bet there are more grants to apply for here than in Tennessee...a transit-oriented development, some structures/programs that help the poor. Doing something LEED-certified. Even the Republican dominated US Congress appears to be in the works of passing a bill that will give more public money to developers for environmental remediation (ie at the 78). But I bet the team under new ownership will analyze all options available to them for a new ballpark. It might be out of town. 

I just wouldn't rule it out is all. I don't think this Ishbia guy is some big ol Sox fan, he's just some guy that wanted to buy a ball team and the Minnesota team has a lot more debt, no more opportunity for new real estate development. I think it would be a mistake if the public didn't invest. 

Chicago's MSA is around 9.5 million, Dallas is 7.6 million, so not all that close. True, the Chicago area population is shrinking, but it still has a lot going for it, with regards to location, especially due to climate change. Of course, it's got its issues: underfunded pensions, crime, taxes. But Texas is a major disaster waiting to happen, with increasing heat, operating off its own vulnerable electrical grid, etc.

Here's the top 20 MSA's, btw: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Metropolitan_statistical_area

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

14 hours ago, nrockway said:

I don't think it's likely but there are plenty of large media markets with 0 MLB teams and Chicago is frankly declining. It's just not something to rule out entirely. Dallas-Fort Worth-Arlington is a growing statistical area, roughly the same size of Chicago's, which is shrinking. It could handle two teams especially in Dallas proper. Charlotte's MSA is quite large, growing, with 0 MLB teams. Indianapolis could draw an MLB team. or Virginia Beach or San Jose. It doesn't have to be specifically Nashville. Building a brand new ballpark is fundamentally the same idea regardless of what city it is in. Especially when there isn't a giant fan base. I think all of the Sox fans in existence post on this forum and many live outside Illinois (don't watch them on local TV, don't attend games). There is room to both move and to expand, clearly the Oakland team didn't care about leaving a large, wealthy market. Although quite a bit smaller than Chicago's, I think the parallels between Oakland A's and San Fran Giants is similar to the Sox and Cubs. Oakland is kind of like the South Side (the locale is also preferable to SF imo, I was debating a move to the Lake Merritt area but moved back to Chicago instead for some reason). New York could easily handle a third team.

I think they'll go where the gettin is good and I think Illinois/Chicago will inevitably play ball in some capacity even if it isn't a direct subsidy...so a move is unlikely in this sense. I bet there are more grants to apply for here than in Tennessee...a transit-oriented development, some structures/programs that help the poor. Doing something LEED-certified. Even the Republican dominated US Congress appears to be in the works of passing a bill that will give more public money to developers for environmental remediation (ie at the 78). But I bet the team under new ownership will analyze all options available to them for a new ballpark. It might be out of town. 

I just wouldn't rule it out is all. I don't think this Ishbia guy is some big ol Sox fan, he's just some guy that wanted to buy a ball team and the Minnesota team has a lot more debt, no more opportunity for new real estate development. I think it would be a mistake if the public didn't invest. 

How is Chicago declining? Cities are measured by the size of their metropolitan area population. Last year it went up .65%, which was up from .53 the year before and .4 the year after that.

Name a single "large media market" without a team. The top 14 markets in the country have baseball teams - it's one reason Tampa/St Pete have a team at all. The top 3 markets, of which Chicago is a part of, all have two teams at this point too.

[waltwilliams]

39 minutes ago, fathom said:

Tinley/Orland

That's 30 miles away from the city center. If anything would kill the Sox, that kind of move would.

[fathom]

19 minutes ago, waltwilliams said:

That's 30 miles away from the city center. If anything would kill the Sox, that kind of move would.

Arlington Heights would be even worse

[Melton1972]

20 hours ago, DoUEvenShift said:

Instead of the skyline view at the 78 we could get a great view of US Steel

If you want that you could see the Gary Railcats team play

[The Mighty Mite]

I’ve always said if the Sox were to move to the Suburbs, the Hillside/Oakbrook area would be ideal, take a look at a map and you can see that area is right smack dab in the middle of the Metro area.

[greg775]

16 hours ago, nrockway said:

I think all of the Sox fans in existence post on this forum and many live outside Illinois (don't watch them on local TV, don't attend games).

I think they'll go where the gettin is good and I think Illinois/Chicago will inevitably play ball in some capacity even if it isn't a direct subsidy...

Interesting points. You know, the Sox total attendance is actually very good considering the lack of people interested in the Sox in Illinois. The Sox are drawing well for such a wretched past few seasons. As good as we are this year, 100 losses is still a possibility. That used to be unheard of, now it's like, 'Who cares? What do you expect?' In short, it is 'possible' to draw 2 mill again in the Rate if Colson and Teel et all lead the team to a resurgence in wins. Sox fans have drawn enough for me to suggest the owner will make money and draw 2 mill or more a year when we start winning again.

Your second point ... I don't think Pritzger will ever support a new stadium unless he thinks it'll cost him votes and it won't. Chicago as a city is struggling (didn't I read the new mayor has single digit support? Didn't I read the military is coming soon) and frankly to me it's surprising Ishbia would want to mess with Chicago. I'll stick with my Arlington Hts prediction. Sox would be stupid to not explore every aspect of joining forces with the Bears in AH.

Edited September 17 by greg775

[greg775]

52 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I’ve always said if the Sox were to move to the Suburbs, the Hillside/Oakbrook area would be ideal, take a look at a map and you can see that area is right smack dab in the middle of the Metro area.

Oak Brook actually would be a good spot. Does that mall still exist in the day and age of declining interest in malls/shopping? Put it where Oak Brook Mall is. Boom.

[greg775]

2 hours ago, WBWSF said:

I've often wondered what Southwest suburb would be good for  a  White Sox stadium.  I live in that area and there are alot of White Sox fans out here. If they built a stadium in Arlington Heights you would be moving the team away from their fan base. At one time Rosemont seemed to be interested in building a stadium for the White Sox.  That also would be away from their fan base.

Far south siders and southwest suburban south siders probably would NEVER EVER venture as far as Arlington Hts to watch the Sox. Would be a good time to fund another minor league team around there. Sox fans would definitely be a new demographic with most fans on the far south side passing on driving all the way out to AH. They'd still draw a ton of fans in AH with the new entertainment district and the Bears out there too.

Edited September 17 by greg775

[Lip Man 1]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Interesting points. You know, the Sox total attendance is actually very good considering the lack of people interested in the Sox in Illinois. The Sox are drawing well for such a wretched past few seasons. As good as we are this year, 100 losses is still a possibility. That used to be unheard of, now it's like, 'Who cares? What do you expect?' In short, it is 'possible' to draw 2 mill again in the Rate if Colson and Teel et all lead the team to a resurgence in wins. Sox fans have drawn enough for me to suggest the owner will make money and draw 2 mill or more a year when we start winning again.

Your second point ... I don't think Pritzger will ever support a new stadium unless he thinks it'll cost him votes and it won't. Chicago as a city is struggling (didn't I read the new mayor has single digit support? Didn't I read the military is coming soon) and frankly to me it's surprising Ishbia would want to mess with Chicago. I'll stick with my Arlington Hts prediction. Sox would be stupid to not explore every aspect of joining forces with the Bears in AH.

Bears are having their own stadium issues, I don't think they want anything to do with the Sox which would already complicate a bad situation for them. 

[WBWSF]

2 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

I’ve always said if the Sox were to move to the Suburbs, the Hillside/Oakbrook area would be ideal, take a look at a map and you can see that area is right smack dab in the middle of the Metro area.

Just curious, where do you think a new stadium in the Hillside/Oakbrook would be? I  don't think there is any vacant land there to build a stadium.

[The Mighty Mite]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Oak Brook actually would be a good spot. Does that mall still exist in the day and age of declining interest in malls/shopping? Put it where Oak Brook Mall is. Boom.

Back in the day I played golf at Fresh Meadow golf course at Wolf Rd and 22nd street, It’s closed now and would be a good spot, Tri State exit is a half mile west with 290 a bit to the north.

[The Mighty Mite]

1 minute ago, WBWSF said:

Just curious, where do you think a new stadium in the Hillside/Oakbrook would be? I  don't think there is any vacant land there to build a stadium.

Read the next post. I’ve been gone 32 years but what is now where the Hillside shopping center was?

[77 Hitmen]

2 hours ago, greg775 said:

Oak Brook actually would be a good spot. Does that mall still exist in the day and age of declining interest in malls/shopping? Put it where Oak Brook Mall is. Boom.

Oak Brook Mall is still around and is thriving as far as I can tell.  They are NOT going to get rid of it to build a Sox stadium on that site to cater to the segment of the fanbase who are afraid of the city.   It's not even close to any train stations, either.  So, it's not a transit-friendly location except for being right off the tollway.

https://oakbrookmagazine.com/still-going-strong-oakbrook-center-continues-to-thrive-as-more-malls-close/

https://www.chicagotribune.com/2025/07/22/oak-brook-center-ranked-4th/

https://hinsdalemag.com/oakbrook-center/

Edited September 17 by 77 Hitmen

[77 Hitmen]

17 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Back in the day I played golf at Fresh Meadow golf course at Wolf Rd and 22nd street, It’s closed now and would be a good spot, Tri State exit is a half mile west with 290 a bit to the north.

 

17 hours ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Read the next post. I’ve been gone 32 years but what is now where the Hillside shopping center was?

If I'm looking at the right spot on Google Maps, part of the old Hillside Shopping Center is now a CarMax and part of it is a vacant lot.

No offense to anyone who lives in or near Hillside, but why in the world would the Sox leave 35th and Shields only to build a new stadium there?  I don't see how by any stretch of the imagination it would be an improvement over the current location.  And like I said, no offense to people who live around there, but that area doesn't seem that appealing.  Hillside, Bellwood, Berkeley, etc. aren't exactly top suburbs.   What is there to do around there to draw fans before and after games?  Sure, there are some very nice cemeteries just to the south of that area and on the north side of the Ike, there's a pretty big landfill which I remember smelling sometimes as I drove past on 290, but those aren't exactly huge draws for entertainment dollars.  No train stations within a several of miles of that site as far as I can tell either.  Too far from the end of the Blue Line and not even close to the Metra lines to the north and south.  I can't imagine it's a good candidate for developing a successful "stadium district".

The era of MLB teams building ballparks in locations that are only accessible to almost all fans by car with nothing else much around them is long over by more than three decades.  And no, The Battery in Atlanta isn't comparable.  Very different dynamics in the Atlanta metro area than in Chicagoland.

 

[WhiteSox2023]

37 minutes ago, 77 Hitmen said:

 

If I'm looking at the right spot on Google Maps, part of the old Hillside Shopping Center is now a CarMax and part of it is a vacant lot.

No offense to anyone who lives in or near Hillside, but why in the world would the Sox leave 35th and Shields only to build a new stadium there?  I don't see how by any stretch of the imagination it would be an improvement over the current location.  And like I said, no offense to people who live around there, but that area doesn't seem that appealing.  Hillside, Bellwood, Berkeley, etc. aren't exactly top suburbs.   What is there to do around there to draw fans before and after games?  Sure, there are some very nice cemeteries just to the south of that area and on the north side of the Ike, there's a pretty big landfill which I remember smelling sometimes as I drove past on 290, but those aren't exactly huge draws for entertainment dollars.  No train stations within a several of miles of that site as far as I can tell either.  Too far from the end of the Blue Line and not even close to the Metra lines to the north and south.  I can't imagine it's a good candidate for developing a successful "stadium district".

The era of MLB teams building ballparks in locations that are only accessible to almost all fans by car with nothing else much around them is long over by more than three decades.  And no, The Battery in Atlanta isn't comparable.  Very different dynamics in the Atlanta metro area than in Chicagoland.

 

Yep, it’s a CarMax.

And not only are those three not top suburbs, but they are quite honestly crime-ridden dumps, no offense to anyone that lives there.  May as well move the stadium to Stinkney at that point.  Smell some delightful wastewater along with your polish and grilled onions.

Edited September 18 by WhiteSox2023

[The Mighty Mite]

38 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Yep, it’s a CarMax.

And not only are those three not top suburbs, but they are quite honestly crime-ridden dumps, no offense to anyone that lives there.  May as well move the stadium to Stinkney at that point.  Smell some delightful wastewater along with your polish and grilled onions.

After 32 years in Florida I had no idea that the Hillside area was crime infested.

Edited September 18 by The Mighty Mite

[Sleepy Harold]

 

[tray]

23 hours ago, greg775 said:

Oak Brook actually would be a good spot. Does that mall still exist in the day and age of declining interest in malls/shopping? Put it where Oak Brook Mall is. Boom.

Chryst.

[southsider2k5]

4 minutes ago, tray said:

Chryst.

No, it's just greg.