Two often repeated statements/ arguments on this board that now seem silly:

[kitekrazy]

14 hours ago, ptatc said:

Or that people have no concept of what progress means. 

that makes me think of only the White Sox.

[kitekrazy]

14 hours ago, ptatc said:

Who has done any of things you mentioned? Certainly not me.

I agree they are bad. I've made good money betting against them everyday. There isn't any chest thumping as you were asking about. There is just progress from last year.

As long as they continue to show progress they'll get there. 

Which is?  I don't know

[kitekrazy]

4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

The W-L record isn’t something to get excited about.  But if we’re being fair to the OP, there were multiple posters here saying the team would be worse than last year despite plenty of data points that objectively proved how hard that would be.  Along those lines, many of those same posters called the addition of Tauchman & Slater dumb since they were “garbage” vets who were blocking big time prospects like Dominic Fletcher, Oscar Colas, Zack DeLoach, and board favorite Alexander Canario (owner of a 64 wRC+ with the Pirates).

Now, should vilehoopster be this aggressive regarding these two points?  Hell no, these are not hills worth dying on and demanding apologies over given how bad the team / org remains at the moment.  However, it is nice to occasionally hold the overly negative posters accountable because they often bring down the quality of the board by relentlessly whining about everything and refusing to have objective conversations.

Good point.  The sad thing there are no prospects being blocked.  It's the lack of prospects.  That creates the "fans can't have nice things" always trading today for tomorrow because you can't draft. The other scary part is can they develop?  I'm not wowed by pitching prospects since they help win one every 5 unless you have Ohtani.

 I want to see them hit on a  Witt or Thomas  and in reality Montgomery is not that impact player. 

[chitownsportsfan]

45 minutes ago, Paulie4Pres said:

I mean, who gives a s%*#? They are still objectively awful. They are still an embarrassment. They are still years away from even contending for this division. It was always going to be nearly impossible for this team to be historically bad AGAIN. So congratulations on being right? Lol.

It was also maybe 3-4 voices out of the few dozen regulars that post here. I just read the preseason prediction thread, most people were going with around 50-60. Maybe two said we had any chance to be worse than last year. 

The team is still really bad. We've gone from historically bad to just really bad. Wake me up when we have a team capable of winning 90 games and competing for a division title. We're still 30 WAR away from that.

[WestEddy]

27 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

It was also maybe 3-4 voices out of the few dozen regulars that post here. I just read the preseason prediction thread, most people were going with around 50-60. Maybe two said we had any chance to be worse than last year. 

The team is still really bad. We've gone from historically bad to just really bad. Wake me up when we have a team capable of winning 90 games and competing for a division title. We're still 30 WAR away from that.

Reality can coexist with a positive feeling about this team. I predicted 54 wins and feel very positive about the direction. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

46 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

It was also maybe 3-4 voices out of the few dozen regulars that post here. I just read the preseason prediction thread, most people were going with around 50-60. Maybe two said we had any chance to be worse than last year. 

The team is still really bad. We've gone from historically bad to just really bad. Wake me up when we have a team capable of winning 90 games and competing for a division title. We're still 30 WAR away from that.

Let's not sell our boys short, 106 losses is still historically bad. It's just not the most historically bad year like last year.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

39 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Reality can coexist with a positive feeling about this team. I predicted 54 wins and feel very positive about the direction. 

"Very positive" about the direction.

You honestly have to be completely delusional to feel "very positive" after the worst season in MLB history followed up by a season with a 106 loss pace in which you're the worst team in your league.

I get called an optimist with the White Sox in my personal circle, and while I'm surrounded by sports curmudgeons, I still consider myself pretty optimistic. I like Meidroth (bet on him to win ROY! given his steamer projections, but sadly Jacob Wilson is a machine), I LIKED Vargas when he was bad so I still like Vargas, and Teel seems like he'll be a nice piece but still TBD. I'm also probably one of the biggest Sosa fans alive (not just on the board) and I think the kid can be an average regular if you give him the AB's and opportunity.

On the pitching side, after Shane Smith the White Sox have nothing.

And while I like the guys above, I don't think any of them have a 6-8 WAR ceiling.

Compared to last year when they had like two big leaguers on the roster, is it an improvement? Sure! Most teams field entire rosters of big league players though, and the Sox aren't even half way to that benchmark.

Edit: I think some of the optimism comes from people who just watch White Sox baseball. Their baseline is White Sox baseball. As someone who consumes a lot of baseball from many other teams year round, it's much more apparent that the Sox aren't something to be optimistic about. They need EVERYTHING to go right and every prospect to hit just to be competitive. The odds of that are next to zero.

 

Edited June 9 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[WestEddy]

9 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

"Very positive" about the direction.

You honestly have to be completely delusional to feel "very positive" after the worst season in MLB history followed up by a season with a 106 loss pace in which you're the worst team in your league.

I get called an optimist with the White Sox in my personal circle, and while I'm surrounded by sports curmudgeons, I still consider myself pretty optimistic. I like Meidroth (bet on him to win ROY! given his steamer projections, but sadly Jacob Wilson is a machine), I LIKED Vargas when he was bad so I still like Vargas, and Teel seems like he'll be a nice piece but still TBD. I'm also probably one of the biggest Sosa fans alive (not just on the board) and I think the kid can be an average regular if you give him the AB's and opportunity.

On the pitching side, after Shane Smith the White Sox have nothing.

And while I like the guys above, I don't think any of them have a 6-8 WAR ceiling.

Compared to last year when they had like two big leaguers on the roster, is it an improvement? Sure! Most teams field entire rosters of big league players though, and the Sox aren't even half way to that benchmark.

 

Yeah, you are realistic in your views of individual players, which can be read as "optimistic" by people who simply trash everything, day in, day out. 

I think the organization has been overhauled. They draft okay, they develop pitching well, hitting development seems to have taken a step forward, they have an actual philosophy for the acquisition of pitching and offense - we won't see any major movement in the international market for a few years, yet. Yes, I'm positive. If I saw no possibility of improvement, I wouldn't spend my time watching and reading. I was a regular Bears fan. I thought the team was poorly run, and I got tired of being angry all year. So I stopped following. I don't suggest anybody do that here, it's just my outlook. If you want to call that delusional for that, have at it. 

[Chicago White Sox]

5 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I think I’d still rather have Canario playing RF over Tauchman and Slater.  The only value Tauchman and Slater have in a non-competitive season for this org is what they are traded for at the deadline.  Chances are more likely than not that whatever return Getz gets for them won’t be worth much of anything.  Old veteran platoon bats / backups just don’t return much, and that’s what both Tauchman and Slater would likely be for contending teams.  Is anyone still excited about Jarold Rosado?  We had one big trade chip in Robert, but unfortunately he crapped the bed.

We probably don’t get much for either of them, but they also combined make like $2M above the league minimum and are performing extremely well.  There is some value in not being the worst team in baseball history two years in a row as long as you aren’t blocking legitimate prospects.  And as we have debated before, it’s not like Canario is some slam dunk prospect.  His contact issues are very well known and I think it’s very much defensible to not waste resource and playing time on him if you don’t have an obvious path to fix him.  It’s totally fine if you feel he was worth a shot, but I won’t blame Getz passing, especially when you look at the production we are getting from Tauchman/Slater and how bad Canario has struggled so far this year.

[chitownsportsfan]

Tauchmann's OPS dropped 100 points in a week and he's a career dead average hitter who will be 35 in a October. I have no idea why people are crowing so hard about that signing. Congrats, you got a month of pixie dust from a veteran on a team careening towards 110 losses.

[T R U]

24 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Tauchmann's OPS dropped 100 points in a week and he's a career dead average hitter who will be 35 in a October. I have no idea why people are crowing so hard about that signing. Congrats, you got a month of pixie dust from a veteran on a team careening towards 110 losses.

Because there isn't a whole lot to hang your hat on if you are trying to sell positives for the 2025 White Sox.

If were talking about the future: Meidroth, Vargas and Shane Smith have been the only worthwhile things on this team so far. Teel has looked really good in his debut, but so did Quero and he has been pretty bad for the last month now. Well see how it goes.

Other than that, the offense is a bunch of sub 1-2WAR guys or negative guys, the bullpen stinks and eventually the SP is going to get worse either by performance or load management. 

We also don't really have much in terms of valuable trade chips. 

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, WestEddy said:

Yeah, you are realistic in your views of individual players, which can be read as "optimistic" by people who simply trash everything, day in, day out. 

I think the organization has been overhauled. They draft okay, they develop pitching well, hitting development seems to have taken a step forward, they have an actual philosophy for the acquisition of pitching and offense - we won't see any major movement in the international market for a few years, yet. Yes, I'm positive. If I saw no possibility of improvement, I wouldn't spend my time watching and reading. I was a regular Bears fan. I thought the team was poorly run, and I got tired of being angry all year. So I stopped following. I don't suggest anybody do that here, it's just my outlook. If you want to call that delusional for that, have at it. 

The Bears are a train wreck and yet they're about 1 trillion times better run than the White Sox.

They even had their own Tony La Russa in Bill Polian, but they didn't actually give the Dinosaur Polian any power.

The White Sox are legitimately one of the three worst run professional organizations in sports. I'm now even more confused that you're claiming to be someone who won't tolerate ineptitude and will simply stop watching yet you're a huge White Sox supporter.

[caulfield12]

If the White Sox had the Bears’ equivalent of WR and TE talent…let’s call that the equivalent of the future outfield, then this rebuild would look so much better to the majority of fans.

[Snopek]

3 hours ago, Paulie4Pres said:

I mean, who gives a s%*#? They are still objectively awful. They are still an embarrassment. They are still years away from even contending for this division. It was always going to be nearly impossible for this team to be historically bad AGAIN. So congratulations on being right? Lol.

Honest question. Since you don’t seem interested in even slight progress, what do you get out of coming to this board?

[Tnetennba]

Are they marginally better? Sure. Significantly better? Their record says otherwise. 

Will Tauchman or Slater bring back anything notable in trade? Unlikely. 

Are these sentiments repeated ad nauseam or have been irrefutably disproven to necessitate an apology thread? Not even remotely.  

Not being historically bad two years in a row is hardly reason for a victory lap.
 

[WestEddy]

25 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The Bears are a train wreck and yet they're about 1 trillion times better run than the White Sox.

They even had their own Tony La Russa in Bill Polian, but they didn't actually give the Dinosaur Polian any power.

The White Sox are legitimately one of the three worst run professional organizations in sports. I'm now even more confused that you're claiming to be someone who won't tolerate ineptitude and will simply stop watching yet you're a huge White Sox supporter.

I don't know why it's important for you that I accept your opinion of the White Sox. That works for you, great. This is the team I root for. I'm confused why somebody who "won't tolerate ineptitude" spends every day posting the same negative takes about a team they have no hope for. 

[WestEddy]

21 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Honest question. Since you don’t seem interested in even slight progress, what do you get out of coming to this board?

Superiority. Just like the guy who shows up to every losing game thread to declare he's laughing his fucking ass off. 

[WhiteSox2023]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

"Very positive" about the direction.

You honestly have to be completely delusional to feel "very positive" after the worst season in MLB history followed up by a season with a 106 loss pace in which you're the worst team in your league.

I get called an optimist with the White Sox in my personal circle, and while I'm surrounded by sports curmudgeons, I still consider myself pretty optimistic. I like Meidroth (bet on him to win ROY! given his steamer projections, but sadly Jacob Wilson is a machine), I LIKED Vargas when he was bad so I still like Vargas, and Teel seems like he'll be a nice piece but still TBD. I'm also probably one of the biggest Sosa fans alive (not just on the board) and I think the kid can be an average regular if you give him the AB's and opportunity.

On the pitching side, after Shane Smith the White Sox have nothing.

And while I like the guys above, I don't think any of them have a 6-8 WAR ceiling.

Compared to last year when they had like two big leaguers on the roster, is it an improvement? Sure! Most teams field entire rosters of big league players though, and the Sox aren't even half way to that benchmark.

Edit: I think some of the optimism comes from people who just watch White Sox baseball. Their baseline is White Sox baseball. As someone who consumes a lot of baseball from many other teams year round, it's much more apparent that the Sox aren't something to be optimistic about. They need EVERYTHING to go right and every prospect to hit just to be competitive. The odds of that are next to zero.

 

I used to think you were one of the biggest optimists on this board.  I even thought you were a bit homerish in thinking that every Sox prospect would succeed.  Now I just think that you are a realist.  Either I was just wrong of Jerry has finally beaten all the optimism out of you.  😢 😉 

[WestEddy]

15 minutes ago, Tnetennba said:

Are they marginally better? Sure. Significantly better? Their record says otherwise. 

Will Tauchman or Slater bring back anything notable in trade? Unlikely. 

Are these sentiments repeated ad nauseam or have been irrefutably disproven to necessitate an apology thread? Not even remotely.  

Not being historically bad two years in a row is hardly reason for a victory lap.
 

Wait. Are you actually saying that "this team isn't significantly better" and "Tauch and Slater won't be traded for anything of value" are not even remotely repeated ad nauseum here?

[WhiteSox2023]

10 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

Superiority. Just like the guy who shows up to every losing game thread to declare he's laughing his fucking ass off. 

The Sox have tended to lose many games in hilarious and unique ways the past two seasons.  At least they are still providing some funny moments for their viewers.

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

54 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I don't know why it's important for you that I accept your opinion of the White Sox. That works for you, great. This is the team I root for. I'm confused why somebody who "won't tolerate ineptitude" spends every day posting the same negative takes about a team they have no hope for. 

I don't post anywhere near everyday.

I don't post only negative things in the least bit.

It's been said many times before, but I'm a large fan of baseball itself who is also a White Sox fan. I don't need hope to continue watching baseball. I'm objectively speaking of the White Sox and their future.

[joejoesox]

On 6/7/2025 at 3:06 PM, FloydBannister1983 said:

Uh, ok.

It is a statement of fact that they are better this year.  They were 30th best team last year.  This year they are 29th.  They are in fact better than last year.

Other fans are on board, too.  A 5 percent increase in attendance over this point last year.

We are watching a sleeping giant.

I believe average fans per game is actually down this year compared to last year, at least that's what they said the other day on 670

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

1 hour ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

I used to think you were one of the biggest optimists on this board.  I even thought you were a bit homerish in thinking that every Sox prospect would succeed.  Now I just think that you are a realist.  Either I was just wrong of Jerry has finally beaten all the optimism out of you.  😢 😉 

I've got a much better track record with pitching than hitting in my baseball modeling/following life. I win/compete in NFBC, and I've done so almost strictly by dominating pitching projections/growth.

Which leads to my perceived optimism in the past; the White Sox had some great arms come through the organization. Their future was really bright. The all-white sox rotation would be the best rotation in baseball. Sadly they had no position player depth and their top prospects got hurt and/or busted out on the positional side, and they traded all their arms.

I still consider myself an optimist, because what's the point of fanhood if you can't dream about what's possible, but I have no idea how people are finding any silver lining with this organization.

The actual most concerning thing about the White Sox in 2025 is pretty much every pitching prospect has taken a step back and some of them significantly.

Edited June 9 by Look at Ray Ray Run

[sin city sox fan]

I don't think this team has that much more talent than last years.    The big difference is the manager.    Don't get me wrong....I'm not touting Venable for manager of the year.    However, he's much better than giant crusty old cat turd we had in the dugout last year.    Southpaw, Bozo the Clown, or Beetlejuice from the Howard could have made this team better last year.....however, no change was made until the dumpster fire was extinguished.

[WestEddy]

20 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I don't post anywhere near everyday.

I don't post only negative things in the least bit.

It's been said many times before, but I'm a large fan of baseball itself who is also a White Sox fan. I don't need hope to continue watching baseball. I'm objectively speaking of the White Sox and their future.

Hey, that's all great. Then I don't know what your ultimate goal in regularly calling me delusional is. If you don't like the fact that somebody exists who thinks differently from you, maybe that's something you can focus on for yourself.