Robert stays...

[Look at Ray Ray Run]

9 minutes ago, Tony said:

This board admittedly just stays in a vicious "loop of disagreement" when it comes to the positive vs. negative takes on the overall health of the organization. 

As I've always said, I won't fault or get in the way of anyone trying to be positive. Where I chime in is when the "positive" group will take shots at those being "negative'

And here is why. Since 2013, the Sox have played 13 seasons. Out of those 13 seasons, the Sox have had a team above .500 twice. 2 times. 1 Division win, 0 playoff series victories. As everyone knows, it's been 20 years since the last playoff series win. 

I agree with a lot of what you wrote. The team does look improve and there are players in the organization that look like they could be quality major league players for the foreseeable future. The organization has a LONG way to go, we know all too well about the issues with ownership.  So if you want to be bullish about the future of the organization, you absolutely can. But that positivity, objectively, is built off hope & faith. That's cool, but you can't blame people for taking a more negative approach to things after the last decade+ of futility for this organization. It's been an absolutely dreadful 15+ years on the South Side, and no one should begrudge a fan for taking a "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude around the White Sox.  

I said it elsewhere, but the devastating thing to me is that my entire life I've been surrounded by Sox fans -- friends and family. 

The vast majority of those people are no longer watching White Sox baseball, aren't talking about it, and aren't attending games. I just don't think people realize how the vast majority of fans view this team, and it's one thing that can/could really kill the future of this organization. 

These are people who have been through miserable White Sox baseball, but this stretch has broken them. Heck, I post here around trade deadline and other periods because my circle doesn't want to talk about the team. They've moved on to other hobbies and interests. That's a scary thing as these were season ticket holding fans watching 100+ games a year.

[southsider2k5]

29 minutes ago, Tony said:

This board admittedly just stays in a vicious "loop of disagreement" when it comes to the positive vs. negative takes on the overall health of the organization. 

As I've always said, I won't fault or get in the way of anyone trying to be positive. Where I chime in is when the "positive" group will take shots at those being "negative'

And here is why. Since 2013, the Sox have played 13 seasons. Out of those 13 seasons, the Sox have had a team above .500 twice. 2 times. 1 Division win, 0 playoff series victories. As everyone knows, it's been 20 years since the last playoff series win. 

I agree with a lot of what you wrote. The team does look improve and there are players in the organization that look like they could be quality major league players for the foreseeable future. The organization has a LONG way to go, we know all too well about the issues with ownership.  So if you want to be bullish about the future of the organization, you absolutely can. But that positivity, objectively, is built off hope & faith. That's cool, but you can't blame people for taking a more negative approach to things after the last decade+ of futility for this organization. It's been an absolutely dreadful 15+ years on the South Side, and no one should begrudge a fan for taking a "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude around the White Sox.  

I've said it before, and I will say it again.  If you come to Soxtalk needing to hear only your opinion reflected back at you in similar words, you are on the wrong website.  This will never be that place.

[Lip Man 1]

31 minutes ago, Tony said:

This board admittedly just stays in a vicious "loop of disagreement" when it comes to the positive vs. negative takes on the overall health of the organization. 

As I've always said, I won't fault or get in the way of anyone trying to be positive. Where I chime in is when the "positive" group will take shots at those being "negative'

And here is why. Since 2013, the Sox have played 13 seasons. Out of those 13 seasons, the Sox have had a team above .500 twice. 2 times. 1 Division win, 0 playoff series victories. As everyone knows, it's been 20 years since the last playoff series win. 

I agree with a lot of what you wrote. The team does look improve and there are players in the organization that look like they could be quality major league players for the foreseeable future. The organization has a LONG way to go, we know all too well about the issues with ownership.  So if you want to be bullish about the future of the organization, you absolutely can. But that positivity, objectively, is built off hope & faith. That's cool, but you can't blame people for taking a more negative approach to things after the last decade+ of futility for this organization. It's been an absolutely dreadful 15+ years on the South Side, and no one should begrudge a fan for taking a "I'll believe it when I see it" attitude around the White Sox.  

With JR in charge that's all you realistically should do. 

The Sox have spent money, unfortunately the vast majority of it has been on stiffs, has-been's, injury-prone guys and retreads since JR refuses to pay the market rate for game changing, superstar, franchise altering talents.

Since the start of the 2007 season the Sox have been one of the worst franchise in baseball, 12 losing years (soon to be 13), five winning ones and a .500 campaign.

Not good. 

[wegner]

20 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

I've said it before, and I will say it again.  If you come to Soxtalk needing to hear only your opinion reflected back at you in similar words, you are on the wrong website.  This will never be that place.

Nor should it be. I personally hate echo chambers. We are all here because we are Sox fans, but I love the variety of information, opinions and humor provided.

[Chicago White Sox]

1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

The White Sox are projected, with their current group, to accumulate 7.9  WAR the rest of the season. That's the second worst in baseball ahead of the Rockies. If you read this place only, you'd think the Sox are surging towards the middle of the pack because of two weeks of baseball. Remarkable stuff.

Why play the actual games when we can just have projection systems simulate everything for us!  Projection systems are obviously flawless, especially when it comes to young players.

[southsider2k5]

27 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

Why play the actual games when we can just have projection systems simulate everything for us!  Projection systems are obviously flawless, especially when it comes to young players.

I mean obviously that is going to happen (playing the games), but if you are sitting here on August 1st talking about what you think is going to happen in the near future, a projection system isn't a bad thing to cite.

[kitekrazy]

18 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

The point of dumping him was to get whatever you could and roll the dice that it could turn out to be a player you can use in the future.

The Sox aren't going anywhere with him in 2025, they aren't going anywhere with him in 2026 and it remains to be seen if baseball will be played at all in 2027 with the labor impasse. 

 

Bad teams are bad at that.  It's rare because they are bad teams.   The draft is also the roll of the dice.  

Odd how these great teams always seem to get better deadline deals which should be renamed salary dump time.

We always think of removing a players but replacing them is the bigger issue.   Look at all of the teams that gave up and they may have guys on the farm to replace them.  The Sox don't.  When you pull a guy from AAA, you have to replace them as well.  There is also the injury factor.

We are so into the science but ignore the results.

Right now the dumpster dive just gained more clients.

If you have a good farm you can do that stuff.   Even if you have a good farm it still can't overcome bad ownership.  Look at all of the studs from the A's system  and yet every year they are MLB's biggest farm system.

I wish MLB could create a set of rules to eliminate bad ownership but yet no sport really does this.

I think their lack of trades is because there is no replacements. 

[chitownsportsfan]

This team really doesn't deserve so many passionate fans. Speaks to how popular the team would be if they ever have some sustained success.

[kitekrazy]

2 hours ago, Colome's Hat said:

This team isn't that bad though.  They had an awful start but if you remove that, they are basically close to or a little under .500.  Nobody is doing cartwheels but it is progress.  They are much better than they were last year.  To be honest, the team wasn't that bad last year but they were so poorly managed that it obviously looks much worse on paper.

Getting to 60-65 wins is a big deal.  Let's say that get to 66 wins, which I think, quite frankly is a very reasonable goal.  That's a 23 win improvement, and that comes just from dumping out the last excess of toxicity and getting better coaching.  You invest smartly in the team and they could become a playoff contender next year.  Especially in an American League that is just much weaker than the NL.  86 wins could probably get you a wild card spot.

So yes, this team is no World Series contender right now.  However there is merserable progress.  As someone who is a footy fan, they are essentially a mid to lower level premier league team that is tough to beat and fun to watch.  Eventually, some of those teams vie for the equivalent of our playoffs, which is Europe.   Some of those teams make it into the conference league.  Actually Crystal Palace, if people are attuned to what is happening over there is a good shout.  You had a team underachieving and hanging around relegation due to a bad fit at manager.  They replaced him with a new manager and the difference is night and day.  

Some of the teams in the division just got worse as well. 

[pcq]

Grew up a Tig fan from Michigan and now I get to watch their rebuild success while the Sox tread water and fumble about. 

[southsider2k5]

10 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

Bad teams are bad at that.  It's rare because they are bad teams.   The draft is also the roll of the dice.  

Odd how these great teams always seem to get better deadline deals which should be renamed salary dump time.

We always think of removing a players but replacing them is the bigger issue.   Look at all of the teams that gave up and they may have guys on the farm to replace them.  The Sox don't.  When you pull a guy from AAA, you have to replace them as well.  There is also the injury factor.

We are so into the science but ignore the results.

Right now the dumpster dive just gained more clients.

If you have a good farm you can do that stuff.   Even if you have a good farm it still can't overcome bad ownership.  Look at all of the studs from the A's system  and yet every year they are MLB's biggest farm system.

I wish MLB could create a set of rules to eliminate bad ownership but yet no sport really does this.

I think their lack of trades is because there is no replacements. 

The idea is pretty obviously that if you look at someone like Adrian Houser who has one year of control left, and then the return they got where they got somewhere around 18 years worth of control back from Tampa Bay that gives you more opportunity to capture future players with control.  No matter how good, or bad Houser is, he is gone in a year.  Either way we have 2 more months with him, and we have to try to resign him in the free agent market.  But now we have three other players who might help us in the future, instead of nothing.

[champagne030]

What are the odds of someone claiming him off waivers in a CB move and Jerry just telling Getzy to walking away from the rest of the salary and buyout?  I didn't believe a single word that came out of Getz' mouth in that interview yesterday.

[Lip Man 1]

14 minutes ago, champagne030 said:

What are the odds of someone claiming him off waivers in a CB move and Jerry just telling Getzy to walking away from the rest of the salary and buyout?  I didn't believe a single word that came out of Getz' mouth in that interview yesterday.

Neither Getz nor the organization has earned the benefit of the doubt but given his comments yesterday for JR to then order him to just waive Robert would make him look very bad. And it's not like Getz would say that JR ordered him to do it.

I don't think JR would put him in that situation at least not so soon. 

[Y2Jimmy0]

24 minutes ago, champagne030 said:

What are the odds of someone claiming him off waivers in a CB move and Jerry just telling Getzy to walking away from the rest of the salary and buyout?  I didn't believe a single word that came out of Getz' mouth in that interview yesterday.

They're picking up the option. I didn't believe it before but they will. 

[T R U]

11 minutes ago, Lip Man 1 said:

Neither Getz nor the organization has earned the benefit of the doubt but given his comments yesterday for JR to then order him to just waive Robert would make him look very bad. And it's not like Getz would say that JR ordered him to do it.

I don't think JR would put him in that situation at least not so soon. 

I never saw the comments but I did see the tweet that said "Were anticipating him being here" which to me is very ambiguous and not definite we are going to pick up this option. Was that said elsewhere?

Same with "Were open to adding to this team". That doesn't mean s%*# to me. How about, we WILL add to this team? You can't say that though, because then you have no way to defend yourself when you don't follow through.

[kitekrazy]

26 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

The idea is pretty obviously that if you look at someone like Adrian Houser who has one year of control left, and then the return they got where they got somewhere around 18 years worth of control back from Tampa Bay that gives you more opportunity to capture future players with control.  No matter how good, or bad Houser is, he is gone in a year.  Either way we have 2 more months with him, and we have to try to resign him in the free agent market.  But now we have three other players who might help us in the future, instead of nothing.

more often that is the result

The key is to have better scouting and development.  That is the brass ring.

[kitekrazy]

14 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They're picking up the option. I didn't believe it before but they will. 

very expensive trade bait

2027 throws a wrench in a lot of decisions

[chitownsportsfan]

15 minutes ago, Y2Jimmy0 said:

They're picking up the option. I didn't believe it before but they will. 

Jimmy you know I'm not your biggest fan but I appreciate when you drop little hints like this. Please stay on the right side of the insider path so you can keep posting here!

[TheBooneLoganEra]

I get the feeling reading this thread some people would almost prefer this team to languish in endless rebuilds, constantly projecting competitive teams being 4 to 5 years away. I suppose that's what this last decade has done to the fanbase but it is quite alarming. 

[WhiteSox2023]

10 minutes ago, chitownsportsfan said:

Jimmy you know I'm not your biggest fan but I appreciate when you drop little hints like this. Please stay on the right side of the insider path so you can keep posting here!

He may be the only one left after Harold left the building?

[southsider2k5]

14 minutes ago, kitekrazy said:

more often that is the result

The key is to have better scouting and development.  That is the brass ring.

Why not both?  But holding on to guys who are leaving in two months doesn't make a lick of sense.

[T R U]

7 minutes ago, TheBooneLoganEra said:

I get the feeling reading this thread some people would almost prefer this team to languish in endless rebuilds, constantly projecting competitive teams being 4 to 5 years away. I suppose that's what this last decade has done to the fanbase but it is quite alarming. 

That's ridiculous, everyone here is a White Sox fan and wants them to be good. It's hard to see that happening anytime soon when history tells us they wont be signing major free agents and the expectation is that all our our prospects work out which funny enough is the dagger that killed the last rebuild we just went through not even a decade ago yet.

I want this team to be good, I don't enjoy watching this garbage, but im gonna call a spade a spade.

[kitekrazy]

13 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Why not both?  But holding on to guys who are leaving in two months doesn't make a lick of sense.

It doesn't but it would sure be nice to be on the other side of having a rental make you better for 2 months.

BTW who is going t replace Houser?

Clevinger?

[bobbydanks]

I'm not going to lie and say that I haven't been angry or insulting to Robert this year, but I'm fine with this. Better than getting like Brett Baty or Vientos or whatever. 

[Kyyle23]

1 hour ago, wegner said:

Nor should it be. I personally hate echo chambers. We are all here because we are Sox fans, but I love the variety of information, opinions and humor provided.

Wegner, you are one of the best here.  Truthfully.  Don’t ever forget that.