2025 Division Series

[nrockway]

3 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I think this is appropriate:

 

 

laisse tomber les sox fans

[nrockway]

11 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Vaughn was in Top 3 for NL RBIs after the deadline...

What individual player had the biggest individual second half impact if it wasn't him, and for basically zero cost to their organization?

Many players. Aaron Judge might be one. On our own White Sox, Colson produces almost 3 times as much WAR over roughly as many plate appearances as Vaughn with the Brewers. Kyle Teel produced more. These are just some rookies on a bad team. I'm not willing to count every player on every team that was better than Vaughn. There are far too many.

Not to say Vaughn wasn't good for them, he came up huge tonight, but there are countless more impactful players than Vaughn. How much better was Vaughn that Hoskins or several other guys who could've played 1b for them? He was better for sure. He was a great addition to the Brewers team, a very nice trade for them in hindsight.

Saying he's the "primary reason" for the Brewers being better than the Cubs is simply wrong though. The Brewers were the team to beat all season. I think they might've preferred to keep Shane Smith instead of to do a bullpen game tonight, if we're gonna say anything else about Sox players. But the Cubs pitching is so bad and was obviously so bad at the deadline and they didn't do diddly. Shota has been a ticking time bomb since they signed him. 

Edited October 7 by nrockway

[WhiteSox2023]

21 minutes ago, WestEddy said:

I think the question is "how does any of this service my 'Chris Getz sucks at every turn' narrative". 

No one needs any more evidence for that narrative.

[WhiteSox2023]

23 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Vaughn was in Top 3 for NL RBIs after the deadline...

What individual player had the biggest individual second half impact if it wasn't him, and for basically zero cost to their organization?

He was a big acquisition for them, no doubt.  Not sure he was the entire reason for the Brewers to win 5 more games in the regular season than the Cubs.  Brewers probably also beat the Cubs without Vaughn in this series.

[Tony]

22 minutes ago, nrockway said:

what

simply what. Milwaukee was better all season. Cubs might've thought to add some starting pitching or not to have their offense be reliant upon a career .680 OPS catcher. 

It’s weird to be so confident in something objectively false, I mean there is simply no way to spin it. 

Andrew Vaughn was traded to the Brewers on June 13th, 2025. The Brewers were 38-33. The Cubs were 42-28. 

On July 13th, the Brewers were 56-40, they went 18-7 during that stretch. Over July, Vaughn slashed 365/426/731. 

Additionally, on June 13th, the Cubs were 2nd in baseball with a +104 run differential. The Brewers were 12th at +22.

On July 13th the Brewers were 4th in baseball at +74, only behind the Tigers, Yankees and…Cubs, who led the league at +116 on July 13

So not only did Andrew Vaughn make a tremendously important impact for the Brewers, the Cubs were a better team than the Brewers in basically the entire 1st half. 

[WhiteSox2023]

10 minutes ago, Tony said:

It’s weird to be so confident in something objectively false, I mean there is simply no way to spin it. 

Andrew Vaughn was traded to the Brewers on June 13th, 2025. The Brewers were 38-33. The Cubs were 42-28. 

On July 13th, the Brewers were 56-40, they went 18-7 during that stretch. Over July, Vaughn slashed 365/426/731. 

Additionally, on June 13th, the Cubs were 2nd in baseball with a +104 run differential. The Brewers were 12th at +22.

On July 13th the Brewers were 4th in baseball at +74, only behind the Tigers, Yankees and…Cubs, who led the league at +116 on July 13

So not only did Andrew Vaughn make a tremendously important impact for the Brewers, the Cubs were a better team than the Brewers in basically the entire 1st half. 

Good points.  The Vaughn trade also coincided with Misiorowski replacing mediocre-to-bad and unhappy Civale in the Brewers rotation, so that helped as well.

Edited October 7 by WhiteSox2023

[Autumn Dreamin]

Priester starting Game 3

[WhiteSox2023]

5 minutes ago, Autumn Dreamin said:

Priester starting Game 3

Taillon starting for the Cubs.

[chw42]

3 minutes ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Taillon starting for the Cubs.

I can see the Cubs winning game 3. Taillon's looked the best out of all their starters. Brewers should get Peralta on normal rest in game 4, so that's probably their best shot at closing out the series. 

[kitekrazy]

all I want to know is what got into Vaughn?

[nrockway]

9 minutes ago, Tony said:

It’s weird to be so confident in something objectively false, I mean there is simply no way to spin it. 

Andrew Vaughn was traded to the Brewers on June 13th, 2025. The Brewers were 38-33. The Cubs were 42-28. 

On July 13th, the Brewers were 56-40, they went 18-7 during that stretch. Over July, Vaughn slashed 365/426/731. 

Additionally, on June 13th, the Cubs were 2nd in baseball with a +104 run differential. The Brewers were 12th at +22.

On July 13th the Brewers were 4th in baseball at +74, only behind the Tigers, Yankees and…Cubs, who led the league at +116 on July 13

So not only did Andrew Vaughn make a tremendously important impact for the Brewers, the Cubs were a better team than the Brewers in basically the entire 1st half. 

Vaughn produced 1.3 WAR for the Brewers in 254 plate appearances. If you were to average that over every PA he had this season, it would amount to a 2.29 WAR player. Not bad, right? Basically average. As stated, I thought he was a good addition to the Brewers. But a 2.3 WAR player is barely a difference maker for the best team in MLB. A bit better than Rhys Hoskins, I guess, but not by much. Is that the difference between the 5 games the Cubbies were behind? Stats say no. Logic says no as well. I said Vaughn was a good addition for them. But hardly better than what Miguel Vargas actually produced across a whole up and down season, I could cherry pick some numbers for him or Sosa. Non-theoretically, Vaughn was a negative WAR player this past season. Vaughn doesn't even rank on "OPS leaders in the second half" and if they never made this trade, it would an interesting take to assume the Brewers would not have won the division regardless. The Cubs unsustainable offense collapsed. Their lack of pitching depth was exposed. These were not issues with the Brewers roster. They genuinely didn't even need Shane Smith, though I bet they wish they kept him. Anyone who paid attention to MLB this season might've predicted that (hence the reference to Carson Kelly who split .899/.596 OPS from first to second half...obviously that was not being sustained. PCA has even worse peripherals than Sosa and he was not going to sustain his .850 OPS first half...et al down the rest of their lineup...the Brewers put in consistent performances that could be replicated and they were. The Brewers were a very consistent team the entire season.) 

To say that "adding Vaughn is why the Brewers were better than the Cubs" is strictly wrong and seems like a take from somebody who didn't watch any baseball the last season and simply cherry-picked some box score stats. It seems insulting to the roster the Brewers intelligently built from top to bottom, defense, offense and pitching, bench depth. We're seeing this play out in front of our eyes, the Cubs are entirely overmatched. Shota took 1.5 years to regress to his NPB numbers but anyone who watched him in Japan knew it would happen eventually. The Cubs expected to rely on their rookie flamethrower for 6+ innings and he got injured whereas the Brewers intelligently put their analogue in the bullpen. One team was effectively managed, the other was not. 

The unsustainable Cubs offense in the first half is the key thing. Their lack of pitching depth is another major factor. Did anyone really expect them to keep up their first half performance? I did not and they certainly didn't. Many might have predicted that. The Cubs cheaped out, didn't add at the deadline, and we're seeing what they wrought. It's such a bizarre, anti-knowledge take to think the Brewers are suddenly good because they added Vaughn and not because they have an incredibly solid roster mostly devoid of holes.

[Tony]

9 minutes ago, nrockway said:

Vaughn produced 1.3 WAR for the Brewers in 254 plate appearances. If you were to average that over every PA he had this season, it would amount to a 2.29 WAR player. Not bad, right? Basically average. As stated, I thought he was a good addition to the Brewers. But a 2.3 WAR player is barely a difference maker for the best team in MLB. A bit better than Rhys Hoskins, I guess, but not by much. Is that the difference between the 5 games the Cubbies were behind? Stats say no. Logic says no as well. I said Vaughn was a good addition for them. But hardly better than what Miguel Vargas actually produced across a whole up and down season, I could cherry pick some numbers for him or Sosa. Non-theoretically, Vaughn was a negative WAR player this past season. Vaughn doesn't even rank on "OPS leaders in the second half" and if they never made this trade, it would an interesting take to assume the Brewers would not have won the division regardless. The Cubs unsustainable offense collapsed. Their lack of pitching depth was exposed. These were not issues with the Brewers roster. They genuinely didn't even need Shane Smith, though I bet they wish they kept him. Anyone who paid attention to MLB this season might've predicted that (hence the reference to Carson Kelly who split .899/.596 OPS from first to second half...obviously that was not being sustained. PCA has even worse peripherals than Sosa and he was not going to sustain his .850 OPS first half...et al down the rest of their lineup...the Brewers put in consistent performances that could be replicated and they were. The Brewers were a very consistent team the entire season.) 

To say that "adding Vaughn is why the Brewers were better than the Cubs" is strictly wrong and seems like a take from somebody who didn't watch any baseball the last season and simply cherry-picked some box score stats. It seems insulting to the roster the Brewers intelligently built from top to bottom, defense, offense and pitching, bench depth. We're seeing this play out in front of our eyes, the Cubs are entirely overmatched. Shota took 1.5 years to regress to his NPB numbers but anyone who watched him in Japan knew it would happen eventually. The Cubs expected to rely on their rookie flamethrower for 6+ innings and he got injured whereas the Brewers intelligently put their analogue in the bullpen. One team was effectively managed, the other was not. 

The unsustainable Cubs offense in the first half is the key thing. Their lack of pitching depth is another major factor. Did anyone really expect them to keep up their first half performance? I did not and they certainly didn't. Many might have predicted that. The Cubs cheaped out, didn't add at the deadline, and we're seeing what they wrought. It's such a bizarre, anti-knowledge take to think the Brewers are suddenly good because they added Vaughn and not because they have an incredibly solid roster mostly devoid of holes.

And when you can find where I said that, where you literally put it in quotes, please show me, because I’d love to see it. 

What I can actually quote is you saying “Milwaukee was better all season.” which isn’t a true statement in any way shape or form. 

Andrew Vaughn made a very significant impact in his arrival to the Brewers. It literally can’t be argued. I mean, I suppose it can, but we would call that person an idiot, and point and laugh at them. 

I, nor did others, say it was THE reason the Brewers won the division. Andrew Vaughn did not do that alone, and it’s a very good organization. But very simple numbers will show the sizable impact he had on their season, once he arrived in Wisconsin. But acting like the Brewers led the division wire to wire and the Cubs posed no threat is asinine, and not rooted in any sort of reality of what transpired in the NL Central.

[nrockway]

2 hours ago, WestEddy said:

I think this is appropriate:

 

 

 

also, just watched this french-language opera the other night. our man Hoffman, circa 1850, falls in love with a robot despite all of his friends trying to convince him that...she's a doll come to life. I think gen z, gen alpha could learn a lesson here. 

[caulfield12]

Vaughn had 40 rbi's in July and August alone.

The Brewers were 49-40 and 4 games in back of the Cubs when he was acquired.

Exactly wo months later they were 89-55 and up 7 1/2 games in the division...a total swing of 11 1/2 games.

The reason that Vaughn so quickly had a t-shirt giveaway in Milwaukee was never going to be accurately measured by his fWAR at 1B/DH.

We know the draw backs of that stat.

I've followed baseball my entire life and watch as many games as anyone and Tatis for example can have as much fWAR as he has in RF...those numbers don't accurately reflect the impact that Vaughn had on the Brewers and the NL Central overall.

You ask every Brewers' fan that watched their team every single game of the season and they'll tell you exactly how important he was in July and August to that team.

 

(Just like you can ask in July next year if Sox fans will at that time know who Shane Murphy even is...no will still remain the answer.)

Edited October 7 by caulfield12

[JUSTgottaBELIEVE]

With each passing day, evidence points to Stearns and Counsell being two of the most overrated guys in the sport.

[Kyyle23]

Off Cubs topic for a minute, the bunt to move Castellanos to 3rd was horrific last night.  Castellanos got a terrible jump and he is slow to boot.  Thompson killed that rally right there 

[caulfield12]

23 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

With each passing day, evidence points to Stearns and Counsell being two of the most overrated guys in the sport.

When you lay the foundation for a small or mid market team that makes the playoffs 7/8 years in flyover territory, you're doing something right.

And the Mets were the best team in the NL down the stretch last year.

That doesn't all get cancelled out by one year's worth of bad FA pitching decisions.

Edited October 7 by caulfield12

[caulfield12]

7 hours ago, WhiteSox2023 said:

Good points.  The Vaughn trade also coincided with Misiorowski replacing mediocre-to-bad and unhappy Civale in the Brewers rotation, so that helped as well.

Except his overall season stats pretty accurately reflect the typical ups and downs of a rookie pitcher in the big leagues over the final two months.

[WhiteSox2023]

6 hours ago, kitekrazy said:

all I want to know is what got into Vaughn?

Smelling the roses (a.k.a. the end of his big league career).

[caulfield12]

https://www.si.com/mlb/full-mlb-playoff-schedule-2025-dates-times-tv-channels

Saying you "always play for the tie at home" doesn't accurately reflect the scenario involved last night for the Phillies.

And assuming the Philly pen would win a long drawn out extra innings affair over the Dodgers is such an iffy bet with all the arm talent that LA possesses.

[WhiteSox2023]

4 minutes ago, caulfield12 said:

Except his overall season stats pretty accurately reflect the typical ups and downs of a rookie pitcher in the big leagues over the final two months.

Sure, but he started out hot and helped the Brewers win at least 5 games.  He was better than Civale.

[WhiteSox2023]

36 minutes ago, JUSTgottaBELIEVE said:

With each passing day, evidence points to Stearns and Counsell being two of the most overrated guys in the sport.

When you are a $40 million dollar manager and look defeated from game 1 in front of your players, you aren’t doing it right.  Like I said, that’s a terrible look for any manager.

[caulfield12]

“I think it just brought the energy back into the dugout, and that's what Vaughn has been doing ever since he's got here. He's been able to put big swings on balls and continue producing for us like he has.”        William Contreras

 

https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/mlb/brewers/2025/10/07/andrew-vaughns-home-run-helps-milwaukee-brewers-beat-chicago-cubs-in-nlds-game-2/86546797007/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwjTkpnmhZKQAxVgJkQIHQ54NmgQvOMEegQIBxAC&usg=AOvVaw0-J1m4XQDAMxdReYouqEW4

 

Note the quote about "trying to work his butt off" after the trade/assignment to AAA.

Osik validated yet again...ofc the biggest question is why the Sox couldn't get that same effort out of him?

Too secure/complacent with his team "leadership" role in Chicago? 

Where below average became "good enough" over time.

Edited October 7 by caulfield12

[Kyyle23]

Lmao Vaughn had a leadership role?  News to me

[southsider2k5]

40 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Lmao Vaughn had a leadership role?  News to me

So Vaughn is leading, hitting,  and playing defense?  Wonder when he learned to do that, because if he did any of them for the Sox, he would still be here.