19 minutes ago, joejoesox said:

They win this game without Murphy opening the game. Keep defending this awful awful manager though. I would take Renteria every single time over Venable

Who is defending him

Venable has to decide who the main closer is and whoever he decides on has to be out there for only the 9th inning, I never liked the closer out there for 2 innings.

Edited 10 hours ago10 hr by The Mighty Mite

If Doyle had not been pinch hit for by Braden, Peters could have been in left instead of Antonacci. The game ends on Rochios's at bat when Peters catches that ball. Doyle had 2 hits already and Braden has been cold. Braden still could have been inserted into RF for the bottom of the ninth Peters moved to left.

7 hours ago, fathom said:

Stop treating him like an established star!

Stat from the game, White Sox with 12 Ks…… Guards with 2 Ks

How on earth does Mune still have an OPS of .802?

Edited 9 hours ago9 hr by The Mighty Mite

39 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Venable has to decide who the main closer is and whoever he decides on has to be out there for only the 9th inning, I never liked the closer out there for 2 innings.

Rethinking bullpen roles: Will teams buy in?

Analytics for high leverage situations, sometimes things circle back. I grew up with 3 White Sox winning the "Fireman of the Year Award", Wilbur Wood, Terry Forster, and Goose Gossage. Eddie Fisher won the award also, but I don't remember watching him. These relievers came in and shut down rallies typically 7th -9th inning. I like the way Venable uses his bullpen in high leverage situations.

TLR was the manager that started having an established closer used only in the ninth for saves.

Fireman of the Year Award / Reliever of the Year Award by The Sporting News | Baseball Almanac

9 hours ago, NotSoRetro1983Hat said:

If C Montgomery or Muni were even close to their first half numbers, we would already have the division won. This collapse is 100% on them being automatic outs.

Throw in Braden Montgomery as well!

8 minutes ago, tomtom823 said:

Throw in Braden Montgomery as well!

And (and I know I’m bearing dead horse) Vererable.

Lou Piniella once said that the players win games, and it is the Manager's job not to lose games.

1 hour ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Venable has to decide who the main closer is and whoever he decides on has to be out there for only the 9th inning, I never liked the closer out there for 2 innings.

19 minutes ago, Falstaff said:

Rethinking bullpen roles: Will teams buy in?

Analytics for high leverage situations, sometimes things circle back. I grew up with 3 White Sox winning the "Fireman of the Year Award", Wilbur Wood, Terry Forster, and Goose Gossage. Eddie Fisher won the award also, but I don't remember watching him. These relievers came in and shut down rallies typically 7th -9th inning. I like the way Venable uses his bullpen in high leverage situations.

TLR was the manager that started having an established closer used only in the ninth for saves.

Fireman of the Year Award / Reliever of the Year Award by The Sporting News | Baseball Almanac

Notice when Vogt utilized Cade Smith yesterday?

And still should be available again today, when Sox will have to go with Hicks, for example.

If it's even a close game in the later innings...

14 minutes ago, Falstaff said:

Rethinking bullpen roles: Will teams buy in?

Analytics for high leverage situations, sometimes things circle back. I grew up with 3 White Sox winning the "Fireman of the Year Award", Wilbur Wood, Terry Forster, and Goose Gossage. Eddie Fisher won the award also, but I don't remember watching him. These relievers came in and shut down rallies typically 7th -9th inning. I like the way Venable uses his bullpen in high leverage situations.

TLR was the manager that started having an established closer used only in the ninth for saves.

Fireman of the Year Award / Reliever of the Year Award by The Sporting News | Baseball Almanac

Hoyt Wilhelm was a standout reliever too but you are talking about 50-60 years ago with Wilhelm, Wood and Fisher Knuckleball pitchers. Gossage and Forster were fast ball pitchers with not much spin but I seem to remember Chuck Tanner using Gossage and Forster mainly in the 9th inning. When Gossage was traded and wound up with the Yankees he was strictly a 9th inning closer and one of the best ever.

I do remember some guys in the 1960s and 1970s closing out games pitching 3 innings and regardless of the score constituting a save.

4 hours ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:

I believe Golden Sombrero in Japanese is Gorden Sombreroo

Wtf man

25 minutes ago, The Mighty Mite said:

Hoyt Wilhelm was a standout reliever too but you are talking about 50-60 years ago with Wilhelm, Wood and Fisher Knuckleball pitchers. Gossage and Forster were fast ball pitchers with not much spin but I seem to remember Chuck Tanner using Gossage and Forster mainly in the 9th inning. When Gossage was traded and wound up with the Yankees he was strictly a 9th inning closer and one of the best ever.

I do remember some guys in the 1960s and 1970s closing out games pitching 3 innings and regardless of the score constituting a save.

Bart Johnson, Forster and Gossage were my favs as a kid.

So game winning hit yesterday was not a complete gimme. 85% catch probability. It's still a play that should be made, but Antonacci had to cover 82 feet in 4.8 seconds.

11 minutes ago, chw42 said:

So game winning hit yesterday was not a complete gimme. 85% catch probability. It's still a play that should be made, but Antonacci had to cover 82 feet in 4.8 seconds.

Mostly because of the route he took

5 minutes ago, Bob Sacamano said:

Mostly because of the route he took

Catch probability doesn't care about the route he took. The route he took is why he didn't catch it, but the 85% number has nothing to do with him taking a bad route. It would have been 85% with Peters out there taking a good route and getting a good jump.

2 hours ago, joejoesox said:

They win this game without Murphy opening the game. Keep defending this awful awful manager though. I would take Renteria every single time over Venable

Is the person defending him in the room with us, or….? 🤷

24 minutes ago, Snopek said:

Wtf man

No better than the Wrigley Field t-shirt sellers.

Yesterday was a lousy loss but they have shown fight the last 2 days. With 11 games left and a magic number of 8 to make the playoffs, they definitely should get in.

But an acceptable response is still..... playoffs????

20 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Is the person defending him in the room with us, or….? 🤷

WestEddy/Cali back into hiding...preparing a missive about how they are already one year ahead of schedule and all is basically well.

16 minutes ago, wegner said:

Yesterday was a lousy loss but they have shown fight the last 2 days. With 11 games left and a magic number of 8 to make the playoffs, they definitely should get in.

But an acceptable response is still..... playoffs????

they're lucky 8 of the last 11 games are against teams they've owned this year, granted the pitching is worse and our sluggers have been horrible for the last month+

Edited 7 hours ago7 hr by joejoesox

10 hours ago, Lip Man 1 said:

"If" is the biggest little word in the world.

I admire your faith especially with this franchise.

And remember there may not be a next year.

I’m completely aware but the season isn’t over like some are claiming it to be. We’re in the middle of it and I understand we should already have left everyone in the dust.

My optimism is my only remaining defense mechanism and the White Sox are the only remaining remnant of innocence from youth.

So I’ll hold onto that… everything else in life I’m an angry pessimistic old man that thinks everything has gone to s%*#.

41 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

Is the person defending him in the room with us, or….? 🤷

I will be the clay pigeon and cut Venable some slack. He is learning on the job and has done some things that are questionable, but I will stick with him. The same goes for all the rookies and second year players. They have all played hard and never quit, no drama, no excuses, never pointed fingers, or hid from the media. I will back these guys all the way.

We are all frustrated but in less than 3 hours it's go time.

Edited 6 hours ago6 hr by Falstaff

49 minutes ago, wegner said:

Yesterday was a lousy loss but they have shown fight the last 2 days. With 11 games left and a magic number of 8 to make the playoffs, they definitely should get in.

But an acceptable response is still..... playoffs????

I’m in the camp that if they don’t win the division they failed. I don’t want a wild card. I want the two seed and the division because they had it in their hands.

SWEEP THE FUCKING CENTRAL resets today!

11 hours ago, wegner said:

Once again, does anyone ask Venable why the infatuation with using an opener so much? That choice today cost them the game.

Honestly it’s been a net positive on the year as we’ve tried to make the best of a shaky rotation, but I don’t get using Murphy as an opener for Martin when Martin has looked pretty good since coming back. Newcomb or Hudson for Fedde or Urquidy when he was here? Sure, I get it.

17 minutes ago, Falstaff said:

I will be the clay pigeon and cut Venable some slack. He is learning on the job and has done some things that are questionable, but I will stick with him. The same goes for all the rookies and second year players. They have all played hard and never quit, no drama, no excuses, never pointed fingers, or hid from the media. I will back these guys all the way.

We are all frustrated but in less than 3 hours it's go time.

I will also throw out there that a fair amount of the things we get mad about (line up construction and general pitching usage) have been done for a number of years in combination with the front office and might not even be Venable decisions. Because of the roster management involved in some of these moves, I highly doubt Will alone is deciding the starters on a particular day. Now Will probably has the power for in game moves and when to deploy them, but all of the way back to Hahn, the setting of the rotation, openers, line ups, days off etc, are made in cooperation with the GM to make sure the roster fits what is being done.