Punch and Judy Garland Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 They dangled Capuano in the Rolen talks which would have led to them taking on a huge salary. I think they are down on Capuano(mind you before most of us say coop can fix him, they have a VERY good pitching coach who has helped a ton of guys) and I think they'd look at Crede's defensive upgrade over Braun mixed with his low cost as being very attractive. I do imagine the Boras factor in terms of not being to lock him up long term would be a huge concern. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Chombi @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 07:54 PM) You know. You're toying with me right now. I mention LaPorta a lot on here and routinely get shot down. It's fun and I won't mention the story behind it because I sense people are getting aggitated with my man-crush on him, when it is merely just a great opportunity I see to acquire a guy like him. Also, I was informed he can't be dealt for a year since he was drafted. That I believe is true but I saw a report that the A's and Dbacks were discussing deals but talks didnt go far because they were insisting on Scherzer (Mizzou boy and guy I would love to have here). So I am not sure what the actual rule is as far as time before getting dealt. Scherzer wasn't in this past draft, he was drafted the year before so he is eligible to be traded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(soxfan3530 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:57 PM) That is why i think it would be dumb to trade crede right now. His value is at an all-time low. They might as well, start with him in the season and hope he gets hot. Then trade him for more or sign him. And not to sound to much like White Sox brass but with how last season and this offseason have gone down, it might not be the smartest move to trade a fan favorite like crede right now for some mid-level prospects. its not a bad idea, there would be worse things in the world than giving crede a shot hoping his trade value goes up and then dealing him at the deadline or something...i just think if fields is the eventual 3b, you dont wanna stunt his development there... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:51 PM) really? i think the yankees red sox and dodgers have managed to do it pretty effectively over the last 4 years.... its all about investing money in scouting, in the draft, and in amateur talent in other countries...not necessarily just trading away vets for prospects (though that helps, but now a days cheap players are more and more valuable to the point where nobody wants to trade them) It's also all about having $200 million to spend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buehrle>Wood Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 If true, I'm guessing Bill Hall is not involved, just because he would have been mentioned in the article, seeing how he is an established talent. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chombi Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Scherzer wasn't in this past draft, he was drafted the year before so he is eligible to be traded. Really? Only feels like last season. My appologizies. My time spent on this board tonight is starting to take it's toll. I am just worn out. The life of a DH sox fan. Too emotionally involved. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Vance Law @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 11:02 PM) It's also all about having $200 million to spend. yankees didnt spend 200 million on cano cabrera chamberlain hughes kennedy tabta etc etc nor did the red sox spend 200 million on buccholz lester ellsbury pedroia youkilis delcarmen masterson lowrie (not to mention han ram, and sanchez who they traded for beckett) no doubt speding 200 millions helps keep guys like arod and manny around, but thats not why those teams have up and coming farm systems that are fertile enough to go out and acquire johan santana in a trade Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(soxpride77 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:40 PM) You bring up 2006, why not 2007? I did...you apparently didn't see where I called him a ".750 OPS SS/2B/3B/CF." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lemon_44 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Nobody knows what kind of career Hart is going to have. He might be a 1 year wonder like Bill Hall or he might be a perrenial all star. The start is promising but there have been alot of guys who have had nice starts to their career and flushed out rather quickly. I don't think that will be the case with Hart but, who knows? One thing we do know, when healthy, Joe Crede is an all-star,gold glove caliber 3b. Those type of guys just don't grow on trees. Obviuosly the key is health but Rolen is a guy who comes to mind that has health problems and bounced back nicley. He's better than Crede but Joe is, at least, in the same ball park. KW has really put a damper on Crede's trade value by thinking he "needs" to trade him. There's no way he get equal value in return.Of course, i'm assuming a healthy Crede and that he's been cleared for all baseball activities points in that direction. Go back to 2006. You don't think the Brewers would've traded Hart for Crede. That trade would've been crucified on the Sox end of things. But, it's not 2006 either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Chombi @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 08:08 PM) Really? Only feels like last season. My appologizies. My time spent on this board tonight is starting to take it's toll. I am just worn out. The life of a DH sox fan. Too emotionally involved. No worries. He was drafted the same year as Ian Kennedy and last season was his first full season with the Dbacks (he was pretty good IIRC). I'm still bummed that Kennedy didn't fall to the Sox two years ago (I was all about him since about his freshman year at USC). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bschmaranz Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Is Prince Fielder still on the team? I could see the Sox going after him with Crede Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 Ugh, no way we pull a regular player from the Brew Crew. Im sure its a middle prospect or a pen arm. If not, good for KW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gosox41 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(maggsmaggs @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:08 PM) My guess is it will be a older prospect (prolly pitcher, reliever quality?) dont get your hopes up. Any chance the Sox can include a couple more players and get Ben Sheets? He's on the block. Bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wanne Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I honestly think Kenny is doing what I do when I'm drunk at the bar playin' darts...just hopin somethin' sticks. Almost akin to a Ron Turner offensive game plan...he looks at his list...calls a play...and prays it works. I just don't see any plan here at all. While I like the Quentin get...it's still small taters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
quickman Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Vance Law @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:02 PM) It's also all about having $200 million to spend. but they are not cheap, just payroll limited, because we only drew 2 million fans last year. and because of the great TV and XM contracts recently infused in the teams. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt4life Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 The more I think about it the more I think that we should keep Crede and hopefully let him build some value during the first half of next season. When he's healthy and playing well he's one of the top 10 third basemen in the MLB. Great defense and a good bat. If we trade him for Capuano or some mid level prospect it will come back to bite us in the ass, he's still pretty young and until his back injury last year he was getting better and better every season. He could bring us a real prospect at next season's trade deadline. We certainly don't risk him losing any value next year Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:10 PM) yankees didnt spend 200 million on cano cabrera chamberlain hughes kennedy tabta etc etc nor did the red sox spend 200 million on buccholz lester ellsbury pedroia youkilis delcarmen masterson lowrie (not to mention han ram, and sanchez who they traded for beckett) no doubt speding 200 millions helps keep guys like arod and manny around, but thats not why those teams have up and coming farm systems that are fertile enough to go out and acquire johan santana in a trade Yes and we've had Fields, Crede, Buehrle, McCarthy, Rowand, Gio, Jeremy Reed, Miguel Olivo (they got us Freddy), Chris Young, Carter, Cunningham, DLS, etc to help us now, and in trades in the past and in the future. Cano, Melky, and Chamberlain aren't getting the Yankees into the playoffs on their own. Having the gabillions of dollars to buy and pay for A-Rod, Abreu, Matsui, Damon, Clemmons, Petite, Jeter. They haven't needed to trade away prospects when they can just go out and buy an All-Star team. Pay $51 million for negotiating rights etc Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 I'm gonna throw a name out there...Zach Jackson and Tony Gwynn Jr. Neither are top prospects both were high draft picks and neither have had a ton of success. I don't know if Jackson turns it around but he still has a projectable arm and Gwynn has some value. He has a solid swing and great defensive tools that would make him a valuable bench player. I think the Sox could do better than this type of package but this is just my guess at two names that are being discussed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Texsox Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(daa84 @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 09:55 PM) at this point i just dont think crede has much value Every time I read comments like this about Crede, I think Maggs, who signed a top 10 contract after a surgery that was considered experimental in the US. Crede does have value and if Scott Boras was our GM, we could get a ton for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 With KW making the decision that Fields won't play LF during winter ball, and that his future is only at 3b, it's really disappointing that KW didn't have a better plan for Crede. At this point, we'd be better off to let Crede play 3b, and put Fields in LF. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vance Law Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(bighurt4life @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 10:37 PM) The more I think about it the more I think that we should keep Crede and hopefully let him build some value during the first half of next season. These were my thoughts going into the offseason. It just doesn't seem like that's what's going to happen. Kenny is between a rock and a hard place with Crede and could get screwed either way. Trade him away now for peanuts and some fans on this board will be screaming bloody murder for not getting more, while the even less informed fans that make up the masses will go even more apes***. Same if they non-tender him. The "sign him and let him play and build up value" camp was a lot larger here before his name started popping up in trade rumors and before they decided the Fields in left experiment was over. The only other option, seemingly is start Fields in AAA and have Crede play and trade him in the 1st half and risk that his back isn't working and we're paying him for nothing, pissing off all of the fans. The safe bet is trade him now for peanuts. The riskier with potentially bigger reward is to have him start the season at 3rd. Anyway, my point is, here is this really awesome player on the Brewers who I've heard of. Do you think we can get him for Crede? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(fathom @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 11:47 PM) With KW making the decision that Fields won't play LF during winter ball, and that his future is only at 3b, it's really disappointing that KW didn't have a better plan for Crede. At this point, we'd be better off to let Crede play 3b, and put Fields in LF. Disagree. If the Sox land a solid CF, Quentin plays LF, and its best to have Fields at his real position of 3B and trade Crede (who won't be re-signed anyway). Crede is still my fave Sox player, but reality intrudes here. Crede should go. UNLESS the Sox simply cannot land a decent CF, then obviously you'd be right, it would be better to have Fields in left and Crede at 3B. Let's hope Kenny finds a center fielder a lot better than Owens (and Crisp doesn't count in that category). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockRaines Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 McCalvy quotes an ESPN rumor of Chris Capuano and Bill Hall for Rolen, which I somehow missed. I thought it was just Capuano. Holy crap. If we could just get Bill Hall I would be ecstatic Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bighurt4life Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Vance Law @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 08:54 PM) Anyway, my point is, here is this really awesome player on the Brewers who I've heard of. Do you think we can get him for Crede? Not a chance, the best we can do is a high upside prospect with some warts. But then again, if they were willing to trade capuano plus a top prospect for a perennially injured scott rolen then anything is possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daa84 Posted December 5, 2007 Share Posted December 5, 2007 QUOTE(Texsox @ Dec 4, 2007 -> 11:43 PM) Every time I read comments like this about Crede, I think Maggs, who signed a top 10 contract after a surgery that was considered experimental in the US. Crede does have value and if Scott Boras was our GM, we could get a ton for him. yeah, everyone blasted the tigers for the contract, and to their credit it worked out....but dont forget maggs contract takes a huge hit if he gets injured...something other teams won't have in line for crede....also crede isn't half the hitter maggs was before the injury...i mean i hope you are right, i really hope we can get a guy like capuano for him or more but imo i just dont see it happening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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