Rumors: Sox/Reds Talking Dye for Bailey Swap

[whitesoxfan101]

The way I see it, the deal can't really be judged until a few things happen. First, and most obviously, you take it for face value. Bailey for Dye. If Bailey blows and Dye continues being a very productive OF, we lose the deal. Or, the opposite happens and Bailey turns out to be a stud, in which case, it doesn't matter what Dye does because of his age.

 

Now, going deeper, you have to think we're going to use a good chunk of this money to sign some Free Agents or add some salary via trade. If we do end up signing 1 or 2 good free agents who help us in 2009, you have to consider it a smart deal. On the face of it, we lost the Carlos Lee trade by a mile, but with the money saved, we were able to sign some key people. This frees up even more money for us to make a run at Furcal or Dunn or Abreu or whoever.

 

Well, we better be ready to open the vault if that's our strategy, because we've saved enough to corner the entire market outside of pitchers.

[bighurt4life]

Everything you put before the words "Using Dye" is true, but that's not even my biggest problem with this. It's clear, even though people won't admit it, that this team is rebuilding. However, to trade Dye for a reclamation project (one whose stuff has betrayed him) is a bad move both in a baseball sense and in the sense that it says to me, this is more that rebuilding, it's "let's go get them in 2010/quasi firesale" mode. I mean this isn't a firesale, but to dump 37 million dollars and get nothing in return to help you anytime soon (and no, Bailey won't help) screams "white flag". Not to mention that we could have got more for Dye than Bailey. No question.

 

1. This deal isn't set in stone yet.

2. Who could we get for Dye that's better than Bailey and how do you know this?

3. Would this theoretical better player also be cheap and under team control for 6 years?

[whitesoxfan101]

Last I checked, Bailey has yet to throw a pitch for the White Sox. Take a deep breath.

 

Coop can fix mechanics, he can't fix stuff.

 

1. This deal isn't set in stone yet.

2. Who could we get for Dye that's better than Bailey and how do you know this?

3. Would this theoretical better player also be cheap and under team control for 6 years?

 

Bailey is a reclamation project. I don't know in specifics what better we could have got in return obviously, but I know for a fact that a guy who produces like Dye, even at his age, can bring more than a reclamation project in return straight up.

Edited December 8, 2008 by whitesoxfan101

[bighurt4life]

Coop can fix mechanics, he can't fix stuff.

 

I've read a couple of scouts reports that said Homer's stuff is still elite. Fastball in the middle 90's, nasty curveball and one of the best sliders around.

[SoxAce]

My god I f***ing love this deal.......... if it has one more player in it, but Bailey is sexy. Danks-Floyd-Bailey-Poreda (maybe) and perhaps another guy in the minors emerges or in the up comming draft..... Wow, I see an actual sun in the future.

[Paint it Black]

Everything you put before the words "Using Dye" is true, but that's not even my biggest problem with this. It's clear, even though people won't admit it, that this team is rebuilding. However, to trade Dye for a reclamation project (one whose stuff has betrayed him) is a bad move both in a baseball sense and in the sense that it says to me, this is more that rebuilding, it's "let's go get them in 2010/quasi firesale" mode. I mean this isn't a firesale, but to dump 37 million dollars and get nothing in return to help you anytime soon (and no, Bailey won't help) screams "white flag". Not to mention that we could have got more for Dye than Bailey. No question.

 

I think it makes sense in some respects. Sure, I would like to see more established, younger talent coming back if this deal goes through, but trading Dye now falls in the school of thought of "rather trade him a year too early than a year too late." It makes a lot of sense to trade Dye. Awful range factor, but still could sell him on the fact that he has been one of the most consistent hitters the past 4 years or so. But with that being said, I'm not sure what the market for Dye is considering his contract and the relatively cheap/younger corner outfielders still in the free agent market.

 

Also, a quick bone to pick with people saying "This team has dumped 37 million dollars, if they don't spend any I'm not going to game next year.", please stop. You sound like those retarded cub fans who said they wouldn't pay as much attention in 2009. Everybody knows you'll pay attention/watch/post/attend a game once they start winning.

[whitesoxfan101]

I've read a couple of scouts reports that said Homer's stuff is still elite. Fastball in the middle 90's, nasty curveball and one of the best sliders around.

 

The scouts must have saw him a while ago. Either that, or he only has poor stuff when I see him pitch.

[SoxFan1]

Coop can fix mechanics, he can't fix stuff.

 

 

 

Bailey is a reclamation project. I don't know in specifics what better we could have got in return obviously, but I know for a fact that a guy who produces like Dye, even at his age, can bring more than a reclamation project in return straight up.

He's 22 freakin' years old! How is he possibly a reclamation project? Did he have an entire season of crap in the MLB? Has he had some sort of injury which held him out for a prolonged period of time? You're making yourself look ridiculously dumb right now.

 

And as far as "Coop can fix mechanics", there is a snippet earlier in this thread which said that a wrap of Bailey's wrist on the ball could be causing some inconsistencies in his command and stuff, so yeah...

[Jordan4life_2007]

Coop can fix mechanics, he can't fix stuff.

 

And Kenny wouldn't even be looking at him if the problem was his stuff. This has already been explained many times.

 

 

 

Bailey is a reclamation project. I don't know in specifics what better we could have got in return obviously, but I know for a fact that a guy who produces like Dye, even at his age, can bring more than a reclamation project in return straight up.

 

No offense, but what the hell could you possibly know as fact? You're a Sox fan posting on a message board. What do you know that Kenny and his people don't?

[whitesoxfan99]

If the only reason for Bailey's declining stuff is a groin injury/minor injury and the Sox end up getting the Bailey of a couple of years ago this might not be a bad trade. But the Sox better be pretty sure about that because if his stuff doesn't return this is an awful trade.

[SoxAce]

Bailey's stuff is probably better than anyone elses in the rotation (Floyds is just a slight notch below.) I give it two years tops before he's the sexy ace on our staff, if he really figures it out or if these rumors are true.

[Jordan4life_2007]

He's 22 freakin' years old! How is he possibly a reclamation project? Did he have an entire season of crap in the MLB? Has he had some sort of injury which held him out for a prolonged period of time? You're making yourself look ridiculously dumb right now.

 

And as far as "Coop can fix mechanics", there is a snippet earlier in this thread which said that a wrap of Bailey's wrist on the ball could be causing some inconsistencies in his command and stuff, so yeah...

 

Tell me about it. Some of these guys here are straight ridiculous. We go through this s*** every year. A big or even small trade is made. OGRHDSFGASHODS! THIS TRADE SUCKS! KENNY SHOULD BE FIRED! WORST TRADE IN HISTORY! Then the trade works out and they pull the "I'll eat crow" or whatever card. Kenny has more than enough positive history when it comes to moves like this, assuming the trade is even legit.

[Paint it Black]

Slav, my problem is the Sox have already "lost" close to 40 million in salary from last season. That should be enough to be able to sign a FA or two if needed. Dumping Dye for a "project" to me is bulls*** given what has already gone on this off-season with Swisher and Vazquez.

 

I'm not opposed to trading Dye. But doing it so it frees up more payroll room doesn't fly with me. Not after they have raised ticket prices and cut 35+ of payroll already.

 

Who do you want them to sign that is reasonable? IMO, the free agent market sucks besides the obvious top 4 or 5.

[dasox24]

The way I see it, the deal can't really be judged until a few things happen. First, and most obviously, you take it for face value. Bailey for Dye. If Bailey blows and Dye continues being a very productive OF, we lose the deal. Or, the opposite happens and Bailey turns out to be a stud, in which case, it doesn't matter what Dye does because of his age.

 

Now, going deeper, you have to think we're going to use a good chunk of this money to sign some Free Agents or add some salary via trade. If we do end up signing 1 or 2 good free agents who help us in 2009, you have to consider it a smart deal. On the face of it, we lost the Carlos Lee trade by a mile, but with the money saved, we were able to sign some key people. This frees up even more money for us to make a run at Furcal or Dunn or Abreu or whoever. Yes, the White Sox are rebuilding, but they aren't packing it in. You'd be naive to think we wont use some of this money in Free Agency...

Exactly. Couldn't have said it better myself... If this trade does end up happening, this is exactly the way it needs to be looked at. I just wish everyone would understand that. There's so much more than just looking strictly at the players involved and saying "We won this deal" or "we lost that deal" when it comes to KW making trades.

[SoxFan1]

Slav, my problem is the Sox have already "lost" close to 40 million in salary from last season. That should be enough to be able to sign a FA or two if needed. Dumping Dye for a "project" to me is bulls*** given what has already gone on this off-season with Swisher and Vazquez.

 

I'm not opposed to trading Dye. But doing it so it frees up more payroll room doesn't fly with me. Not after they have raised ticket prices and cut 35+ of payroll already.

It's still early in the off-season. How many players have signed contracts already? If this was the middle of January and we hadn't spent the money, then I'd be concerned. But we had to wait on the Orlando Cabrera situation first to see our set financials. There is no doubt in my mind that things will be crazy in the next 2 weeks. KW has to know something about Homer Bailey that everyone else doesn't, and since he's the GM of a major league baseball team, I'd imagine that this is the case. He has an excellent track record for trades and there is no way he is making this deal without some sort of bigger, overlying plan.

[Paint it Black]

Tell me about it. Some of these guys here are straight ridiculous. We go through this s*** every year. A big or even small trade is made. OGRHDSFGASHODS! THIS TRADE SUCKS! KENNY SHOULD BE FIRED! WORST TRADE IN HISTORY! Then the trade works out and they pull the "I'll eat crow" or whatever card. Kenny has more than enough positive history when it comes to moves like this, assuming the trade is even legit.

 

LOL my two most favorite threads on this board are the ones from the BMac trade and the trade for GFloyd. I had a different user name then, BUT I liked both those trades and took a lot of s*** for it. Not to brag, but I was in the "Kenny has done this before dudes..." camp.

 

[scenario]

Seems like several people have their own opinions about his speed, his stuff, and what ails him.

 

Here's a November 2007 year-end report on Bailey that should clear up some of the misinformation...

 

Background: A couple of days after holding the Athletics to two hits in seven innings in his third big league start, he slipped and strained his groin. He tried pitching through it, but after he allowed 14 runs over 11 innings in his next three starts, the Reds shut him down for two months.

 

Strengths: Once he was healthy again in September, Bailey was back throwing in the mid-90s with his fastball and buckling knees with his curveball. They're both already well above-average major league pitches, and he has shown the ability to take a little off his heater. He's also added a high-80s cutter to give him a pitch with more lateral movement.

 

Weaknesses: Bailey has no shortage of pure stuff, but he still has to refine his control and command to get big league hitters out and to work deeper into games. He threw strikes on only 58 percent of pitches in the majors and just 61 percent in Triple-A. His changeup is still below average.

 

[SoxFan1]

Seems like several people have their own opinions about his speed, his stuff, and what ails him.

 

Here's a November 2007 year-end report on Bailey that should clear up some of the misinformation...

 

Background: A couple of days after holding the Athletics to two hits in seven innings in his third big league start, he slipped and strained his groin. He tried pitching through it, but after he allowed 14 runs over 11 innings in his next three starts, the Reds shut him down for two months.

 

Strengths: Once he was healthy again in September, Bailey was back throwing in the mid-90s with his fastball and buckling knees with his curveball. They're both already well above-average major league pitches, and he has shown the ability to take a little off his heater. He's also added a high-80s cutter to give him a pitch with more lateral movement.

 

Weaknesses: Bailey has no shortage of pure stuff, but he still has to refine his control and command to get big league hitters out and to work deeper into games. He threw strikes on only 58 percent of pitches in the majors and just 61 percent in Triple-A. His changeup is still below average.

If Bailey's issues have anything to do with some mechanical issues, there is no doubt in my mind that once Don Cooper gets to him, he's going to blossom. Besides, Dusty Baker is their manager and the Reds don't exactly have an Oakland Athletic-like track record for developing pitchers.

[Paint it Black]

If Bailey's issues have anything to do with some mechanical issues, there is no doubt in my mind that once Don Cooper gets to him, he's going to blossom.

the sound of "He's also added a high-80s cutter to give him a pitch with more lateral movement." and "Don Cooper" together make me very happy inside.

[SoxFan1]

the sound of "He's also added a high-80s cutter to give him a pitch with more lateral movement." and "Don Cooper" together make me very happy inside.

It's pretty much a perfect fit. If he's healthy, Homer Bailey is going to be a stud with the help of Don Cooper.

[bighurt4life]

I've also read that some of his problems seem to be not having the best mental approach to pitching. Well, I have quite a bit of faith that Buerhle, Cooper, and AJ will have something to say about that. Same problem with Floyd, million dollar arm but 10 cent brain. I know he's only had one good season but I still think that we've got as good a chance to turn Bailey and his pure stuff into a good if not great pitcher.

[bighurt4life]

No offense, but what the hell could you possibly know as fact? You're a Sox fan posting on a message board. What do you know that Kenny and his people don't?

Kinda what I was getting at.

[witesoxfan]

Bailey's stuff is probably better than anyone elses in the rotation (Floyds is just a slight notch below.) I give it two years tops before he's the sexy ace on our staff, if he really figures it out or if these rumors are true.

 

If Bailey's healthy, his stuff is probably the best. But right now there's no pitcher in the Sox rotation with better stuff than Danks. His fastball/cutter/change/curve is crazy good. Floyd has video game stuff when he's on, but he became much more of a pitcher this year than in the past, and his stuff was anything but consistent.

[rangercal]

No offense, but what the hell could you possibly know as fact? You're a Sox fan posting on a message board. What do you know that Kenny and his people don't?

 

You should look at my work on my 360 . I was able to do a string 20-30 trades for 5 hours straight. After everything was set and done, our rotation was Halladay,Santana,Lincecum,Webb and Peavy. I'm tired of Kenny going for these Dye for Bailey Deals! This is so frustrating! I can show him exactly how I traded Konerko and Uribe for Ervin Santana,Chone Figgins and Brandon Wood!

[bighurt4life]

You should look at my work on my 360 . I was able to do a string 20-30 trades for 5 hours straight. After everything was set and done, our rotation was Halladay,Santana,Lincecum,Webb and Peavy. I'm tired of Kenny going for these Dye for Bailey Deals! This is so frustrating! I can show him exactly how I traded Konerko and Uribe for Ervin Santana,Chone Figgins and Brandon Wood!

 

well done