Milkman delivers Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 12:43 PM) Hyperbole aside, it was a steal considering Weth signed for a billion dollars a couple days later. "Hyperbole aside" and "Werth signed for a billion dollars" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalapse Posted March 24, 2011 Share Posted March 24, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 05:35 PM) Question: Who is the best player to come out of Cuba? Is it Orlando Hernandez? Jose Contreras? Possibly Champman already? Bah? His name is Tony Perez and he's a hall of famer (fun fact: his son was involved in another one of my mediocre predictions). Oliva and Minoso were pretty awesome too. If you want native Cubans who went to school in the US and were drafted you can go Palmeiro and Canseco but they don't really play into this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jenksycat Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (Milkman delivers @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 06:24 PM) "Hyperbole aside" and "Werth signed for a billion dollars" Touche sir...or maybe i meant to do it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Milkman delivers Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (Jenksy Cat @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 07:22 PM) Touche sir...or maybe i meant to do it? I thought you might have meant it, but it was still too perfect since it was all in one sentence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (Kalapse @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 06:27 PM) Bah? His name is Tony Perez and he's a hall of famer (fun fact: his son was involved in another one of my mediocre predictions). Oliva and Minoso were pretty awesome too. If you want native Cubans who went to school in the US and were drafted you can go Palmeiro and Canseco but they don't really play into this. Many of us loved the Eduardo Perez signing. An .835 OPS against LHP the year before and career .861 OPS against southpaws gave a lot of reason for hope that the White Sox would be able to rest Thome a bit more while getting quite a bit of production still. Like many of the moves from that terrible 2007, it didn't pan out and he retired. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 08:22 PM) Many of us loved the Eduardo Perez signing. An .835 OPS against LHP the year before and career .861 OPS against southpaws gave a lot of reason for hope that the White Sox would be able to rest Thome a bit more while getting quite a bit of production still. Like many of the moves from that terrible 2007, it didn't pan out and he retired. IIRC, Eduardo was on fire that spring but still was released. Spring stats mean nothing, good or bad. If there is any concern with Dunn, it would have to be perhaps an adjustment period to the AL and his not so stellar second half last season. No worries about his March stats IMO. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
witesoxfan Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 08:41 PM) IIRC, Eduardo was on fire that spring but still was released. Spring stats mean nothing, good or bad. If there is any concern with Dunn, it would have to be perhaps an adjustment period to the AL and his not so stellar second half last season. No worries about his March stats IMO. I seem to remember Randy Johnson putting up an ERA of 9+ in the spring about 8 years ago and he ended up winning the Cy Young. It's just a period of time where you get your body ready and get yourself in the mindset that you are going to be playing baseball pretty much everyday for the next 6 months. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 05:44 PM) I get your point. Just wanted to say Hernandez easily. And not because of one inning in '05. I agree with all of this. It should also be noted that the Reds are paying Chapman a conciderable amount of money to close, something I am not a fan of at all. I'd rather see money go to guys who appear in you know, more than 60 innings a year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 09:30 PM) I agree with all of this. It should also be noted that the Reds are paying Chapman a conciderable amount of money to close, something I am not a fan of at all. I'd rather see money go to guys who appear in you know, more than 60 innings a year. I agree totally. I'll just never be down with investing first round picks or excessive coin on closers. No matter how good they are outside of Rivera. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 09:30 PM) I agree with all of this. It should also be noted that the Reds are paying Chapman a conciderable amount of money to close, something I am not a fan of at all. I'd rather see money go to guys who appear in you know, more than 60 innings a year. Even though they effect the outcome of twice as many games as a starter? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (ptatc @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 08:35 AM) Even though they effect the outcome of twice as many games as a starter? "Affect the outcome" is a relative term though...because in quite a few of those, the closer comes in and pitches the 9th inning with a fairly comfortable lead and still winds up with the save. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ptatc Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 07:42 AM) "Affect the outcome" is a relative term though...because in quite a few of those, the closer comes in and pitches the 9th inning with a fairly comfortable lead and still winds up with the save. This is true. However, of the 70 or so games he pitches in, how many leads are relatively comfortable? Don't get me wrong I still a starting pitcher is more valuable in general. However I think the closer role is more important than some people give it credit for. The actual "save" stat is useless for the reason you stated above, however the impact of effecting the outcome of twice as many games as a starter does have it's merit. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Balta1701 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (ptatc @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 09:05 AM) This is true. However, of the 70 or so games he pitches in, how many leads are relatively comfortable? Don't get me wrong I still a starting pitcher is more valuable in general. However I think the closer role is more important than some people give it credit for. The actual "save" stat is useless for the reason you stated above, however the impact of effecting the outcome of twice as many games as a starter does have it's merit. Well, last year Bobby Jenks pitched in 24 games where the game was within 1 run or tied, another 10 where the game was within 2 runs. So, only 34 actual "Close games". ANd of course, a handful of those games were close because Jenks came in with bigger leads than that and gave up several runs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
greg775 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 02:26 PM) Well, last year Bobby Jenks pitched in 24 games where the game was within 1 run or tied, another 10 where the game was within 2 runs. So, only 34 actual "Close games". ANd of course, a handful of those games were close because Jenks came in with bigger leads than that and gave up several runs. I don't think I'll bag on Dunn this year no matter what. I know what we got in him and it's worth the strikeouts. He is what he is (cliche). He's all or nothing and we need that big bat. So I hope for the best. He definitely gives us a presence when we play those s*** heads from Minnesota and the other teams in our division that we can't seem to beat on a consistent basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LittleHurt05 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 09:30 PM) I agree with all of this. It should also be noted that the Reds are paying Chapman a conciderable amount of money to close, something I am not a fan of at all. I'd rather see money go to guys who appear in you know, more than 60 innings a year. Is Chapman even closing? I thought Francisco Corders was still there making tons of coin to close. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jordan4life_2007 Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (LittleHurt05 @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 05:29 PM) Is Chapman even closing? I thought Francisco Corders was still there making tons of coin to close. Cordero will open the season as closer. But it's popular opinion that Chapman will take over the roll at some point. As Cordero is not really that good. And he's [Cordero] got a club option for 2012. So unless he's dynamite, the worst-case scenario for Chapman would be he's the full-time closer next year. But I still think that would be an overpay for what they signed him for if he doesn't start. Edited March 25, 2011 by Jordan4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paint it Black Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 10:38 PM) I agree totally. I'll just never be down with investing first round picks or excessive coin on closers. No matter how good they are outside of Rivera. Totally agree with closers. Strongly disagree with spending money on first round picks (assuming you're not drafting the low upside, soft tossing college arms the White Sox used to love). The draft is where you find stars. Stars win you championships, sell tickets, etc. QUOTE (ptatc @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 07:35 AM) Even though they effect the outcome of twice as many games as a starter? You really want to argue how many more games a top flight hitter wins you over a closer? The fact that this team has 3 guys who could close right now kinda proves that a lot of guys could close. Further, give me the number of pitchers in the game who are true aces? Or rather at least guys who are basically a lock for 200 innings a year consistently. Now tell me how many people in baseball you think can close. Wide margin. Closers are the most overrated thing in baseball. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted March 25, 2011 Share Posted March 25, 2011 QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Mar 25, 2011 -> 06:05 PM) Cordero will open the season as closer. But it's popular opinion that Chapman will take over the roll at some point. As Cordero is not really that good. And he's [Cordero] got a club option for 2012. So unless he's dynamite, the worst-case scenario for Chapman would be he's the full-time closer next year. But I still think that would be an overpay for what they signed him for if he doesn't start. I don't think it's an overpay if he can be a dominant closer, but I do think it's a stupid move to make him a closer unless you're all but certain he won't stay healthy as a starter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TitoMB345 Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Really? Ugh, its not even April yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CaliSoxFanViaSWside Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 (edited) QUOTE (Paint it Black @ Mar 24, 2011 -> 03:35 PM) Question: Who is the best player to come out of Cuba? Is it Orlando Hernandez? Jose Contreras? Possibly Champman already? My point is, I'll give the 45 million to a proven hitter to help an offense that was pretty bad last year. The Cuban thing is always nice to dream on, but seriously there has not been that much good to come over from there. I think it's safe to say the very best Cuban players were denied a chance to play in the Majors either by skin color or Castro. But I can name a few who were pretty good that you didn't. Luis Tiant, Mike Cuellar, Jose Canseco, Tony Oliva, Minnie Minoso, Livan Hernandez, Rafael Palmeiro, Bert Campaneris,, Rey Ordonez, Kendry Morales and a few more whose names you might not recognize .There have only been about 166 or so Cuban born players in MLB history. If they all had access to the ML Cuban might produce as many good players as the Dominican Republic. Tony Perez is the only HOF'er and the ones I mentioned were not all born in Cuba . http://www.baseball-reference.com/bio/Cuba_born.shtml Edited March 26, 2011 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
whtsoxfan Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 Adam Dunn has averaged 40 homers and 100 RBI's every year since 2002 playing in large ballparks. Yes, he'll strike out but he'll also walk alot making pitchers work much like Paulie does. Signing Dunn makes the Sox much, much better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 QUOTE (whtsoxfan @ Mar 26, 2011 -> 02:00 PM) Adam Dunn has averaged 40 homers and 100 RBI's every year since 2002 playing in large ballparks. Yes, he'll strike out but he'll also walk alot making pitchers work much like Paulie does. Signing Dunn makes the Sox much, much better. Cincinatti is not a large park, but I agree with everything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Soxfest Posted March 26, 2011 Share Posted March 26, 2011 QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Mar 23, 2011 -> 01:23 PM) Is it April 1st already, or is Soxtalk in midseason form? I hear that wait at least until opening day! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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