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Zach Stewart called up


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If the Sox were 2 games out and not 7 games, I'd be livid about this. KW basically traded away our starting pitching depth when he let go of Jackson, even though he knew Peavy and Humber were extremely fragile. Not even 10 days later, he's having to push back one of those guys and we're relying on a minor leaguer to come up and pitch. The mistakes KW continues to make are shocking.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 6, 2011 -> 07:49 AM)
If the Sox were 2 games out and not 7 games, I'd be livid about this. KW basically traded away our starting pitching depth when he let go of Jackson, even though he knew Peavy and Humber were extremely fragile. Not even 10 days later, he's having to push back one of those guys and we're relying on a minor leaguer to come up and pitch. The mistakes KW continues to make are shocking.

Do you think Jackson was dealt strictly to get us back on the 5-man rotation?

 

 

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QUOTE (iamshack @ Aug 6, 2011 -> 01:52 PM)
Do you think Jackson was dealt strictly to get us back on the 5-man rotation?

 

Honestly, I have no idea why he was dealt anymore. If the Sox really had to shed some payroll, then Thornton would have been dealt as well.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 6, 2011 -> 08:55 AM)
Honestly, I have no idea why he was dealt anymore. If the Sox really had to shed some payroll, then Thornton would have been dealt as well.

 

I thought that was the plan, along with Quentin + as well. But then the sox won 2/3 against the Tigers which gave the ol "false hope" in KW's eyes (IMO) which we are used to unfortunately. Was practically my worst fear as I knew this was going to happen.

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Maybe there really isn't the Thornton market we thought there was....wouldn't the Yankees be the perfect candidate with only Boone Logan in their pen?

 

You'd have to guess they were willing to take Matt's contract extension without giving very much back in return.

 

How many MLB teams besides the Yankees/Red Sox can afford to have a set-up guy (even LH) at over $5 million per year. Well, I guess the White Sox too, since we paid Dotel and Linebrink huge money.

 

And the obvious problem with dealing Quentin is that you're basically telling your fanbase that you're throwing out your 2nd most productive hitter for a prospect who might be great or might just be an average MLB hitter with subpar defensive abilities. If you could go back to 2009, would you rather have the equivalent of two future Quentins (comparing it to the Pomeranz/White deal with COL for Jimenez) or one CQ? Knowing that it's less than a 50% chance that either of those pitchers will/would put up WAR numbers close the value you would project Quentin for at 2010, 2011 and 2012.

 

Of course, the real life situation for teams (in 2011) was only 1 1/3rd seasons of Quentin, and a price tag of $7.5-9.5 million for CQ.

 

Just have a feeling that if you take Quentin and/or Konerko out of that line-up, unless Dunn REALLY comes to life in 2012, there's going to be TON of pressure on Viciedo to hit (and high in the order at 3-6) and we don't know how he'll respond in that situation.

Edited by caulfield12
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This has to be about Peavy, and perhaps Humber's innings. Either way, the Sox are concerned about the durability of their pitching. I don't think this has anything to do with next season, but it does make me think...

 

- What is Chris Sale's future? He has become comfortable in the bullpen and is showing how good he can be, however, can the White Sox really afford to use a player as talented as him in middle relief ? I think he needs to be in the starting rotation next season.

 

- What is Mark Buerhle's future? I think it will take at least 2 years and 20 million to lock him up, and maybe a 3rd year. The money could be slightly higher as well. Do the White Sox resign him? Do they have the money? I still think they work something out, but I do wonder if investing more big money into a player who has been dependable, but whose team isn't very good, is smart.

 

- Jake Peavy will be in the rotation. My hope is that he'll be stronger next season, but I don't think he'll be more than a 5th starter to begin the season.

 

- Phillip Humber should be part of the rotation. He makes no money. The team has to have players like this to balance out guys like Rios, Dunn and Peavy. He's got to be the 4th starter, but they should consider shutting him down in September if they are concerned about his durability.

 

- John Danks (like Carlos Quentin) could be wildcards this off-season. The White Sox are probably cutting payroll. Kenny Williams is also going to try and win the division at the same time. He knows that he won't win the division with this current collection of players so he'll have to try and find creative ways to add talent. Danks is a dependable pitcher, and I would prefer to sign him to a long-term deal, say 4 years. The Sox may try to go this route first, but if talks don't go anywhere, it may be time to look to move him, sort of how the Sox traded McCarthy a few years ago for Danks, getting 2 guys back who make no money but who have good ceilings (that doesn't guarantee they will actually perform well though). Danks could bring back some very good young talent.

 

- To a lesser extent, Gavin Floyd, is in the same boat. He won't bring back a haul, but he could bring back some young talent as well. He may be madly inconsistent, but he's still a #3 or #4 starter who can put up 200 IP, and is relatively young. He has value, and he may be testing the patience of the White Sox organizaation.

 

- Zach Stewart will be in this rotation next season if he shows a pulse this season. Like Humber, he makes no money. He also has talent, and it's time, at 24 or 25 years old, to find out if he can hold his own in the majors.

 

The White Sox could dramatically cut the expenses in their starting rotation if they have Humber, Stewart, Sale with Peavy in the rotation. Buerhle could also be back. I also expect Floyd or Danks to be moved. It could be both, I hope Danks is signed to an extension, but think Williams will look to bring in young talent where he can.

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You'd almost have to argue that Gavin Floyd might have the same value (or greater value) as Danks going forward because of his quite reasonable contract and being under team control for two seasons.

 

$7 million for 2012 and $9.5 million for 2013 (club option) is a very good contract for the equivalent of a #3 guy and maybe a #2 with a lot of NL clubs.

 

Giving up a ton to control Danks for one season (about the same situation we were in when we brought in Freddy Garcia, except Ozzie/KW knew the extension would get done) without anything guaranteed beyond 2012 would be pretty foolhardy for most medium-revenue franchises. That leaves no more than 5-7 teams that he realistically could be traded to and get back the return KW is seeking.

 

But not if he pitches like he did against the Yankees this week. That didn't help. Sure, he was great for 6 weeks, but that's been the story of Floyd and Danks for most of the past 3 years, a bit inconsistent and unpredictable, with Danks being the LH and a BIT more consistent but not by much.

 

Normal KW logic would be to offer Danks an extension that's realistically going to be "decent-looking" to fans but, in reality, with budgetary restraints, won't come close to getting the job done.

 

Then he shops him to the highest bidder. No choice. Not with our projected loss of season ticket holders and Dunn/Peavy/Rios/Konerko soaking up so much of the payroll going forward.

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QUOTE (fathom @ Aug 6, 2011 -> 08:49 AM)
If the Sox were 2 games out and not 7 games, I'd be livid about this. KW basically traded away our starting pitching depth when he let go of Jackson, even though he knew Peavy and Humber were extremely fragile. Not even 10 days later, he's having to push back one of those guys and we're relying on a minor leaguer to come up and pitch. The mistakes KW continues to make are shocking.

 

If you really believe the season is over, you should love this move.

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Maybe Rosethal was on to something.

 

He was already projecting that either Peavy or Humber couldn't make it all the way to the end of season...it was "implicit" in his line of reasoning because of Humber's workload (or lack thereof) the last five years and Peavy's continuing injury/stamina concerns.

 

We'll see how Stewart does.

 

Jackson's been his normal self, one really good start and one bad one.

Edited by caulfield12
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QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Aug 6, 2011 -> 05:15 PM)
Maybe Rosethal was on to something.

 

He was already projecting that either Peavy or Humber couldn't make it all the way to the end of season...it was "implicit" in his line of reasoning because of Humber's workload (or lack thereof) the last five years and Peavy's continuing injury/stamina concerns.

 

We'll see how Stewart does.

 

Jackson's been his normal self, one really good start and one bad one.

 

 

 

 

 

I think it will be next year before Jake can build enough stamina to go 9 or a full season

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QUOTE (southsider2k5 @ Aug 6, 2011 -> 10:42 AM)
If you really believe the season is over, you should love this move.

 

Doesn't matter what fathom thinks. Point is KW didn't think it was over. Otherwise CQ, Thornton and others more than likely wouldn't be here. It doesn't require a really high I.Q. to realize that relying on Peavy/Humber for the long haul is probably a bad idea. I don't know what happened to KW. I thought he was a top 5 GM in baseball a few years ago. But man is he awful now.

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Still, I'm sure the return we got from Jackson ends up a lot better now than had we held on to him until the end of the season and watched him go FA.

 

There's at least a 33% chance Stewart makes it as a starter...definitely he fits into the pen.

 

We pay Frasor $3.75 million for next year or get the same draft pick we would have had from Jackson.

 

So the real question is whether Stewart (long-term) is worth the loss of Jackson for the final two months. With our offense, you'd have to side with KW on the overall cost/benefit side of riding it out until the end of the season with Edwin. We'll see how the Cardinals feel at the end of September if they finish 2nd to the Brewers. We had two teams in front of us and the Twins not so far behind when that calculated trade was made.

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QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Aug 6, 2011 -> 01:55 PM)
Doesn't matter what fathom thinks. Point is KW didn't think it was over. Otherwise CQ, Thornton and others more than likely wouldn't be here. It doesn't require a really high I.Q. to realize that relying on Peavy/Humber for the long haul is probably a bad idea. I don't know what happened to KW. I thought he was a top 5 GM in baseball a few years ago. But man is he awful now.

It wasn't over then. It is pretty much is now. A lot of monday morning quarterbacking going on here lately.

Edited by MAX
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