3/3 Intrasquad

[Chisoxfn]

So excited to watch the game tomorrow!!!

[Dunt]

RV on Micah Johnson (3-for-4, 2 steals, 3 runs): 'He just creates havoc and can put it in play. He means runs because he makes stuff happen'

https://twitter.com/CST_soxvan/status/572877356601241602

 

Nice vote of confidence from RV. Let's hope the defense looked good.

[caulfield12]

Looking at tomorrows lineup, which is very likely a regular season lineup we'll see against LHP, it's kind of sad to see that some ugly bottom third from last year. Beckham-Flowers-Sanchez has minimal offensive upside. If Micah gets the job and can get on base at a ~33% clip I want him batting lead off. Every time he gets on base he'll get plenty of chances to run with Eaton typically seeing plenty of pitches.

 

The brain trust really seems to love the prospect of Melky hitting second and I understand why but I worry the team, as currently constructed, will be a little too top heavy. I hope they're flexible enough to hit Melky #5 or #6. Especially if Avi Garcia doesn't set the world on fire which is a very real possibility. I know a lot of advanced metrics say you should have your best hitter hitting second but I think we have guys with speed/bat control that could benefit from having speed on base in front of them.

 

Essentially, Eaton should always be #1 or #2 and some mix of Melky, Micah and Bonifacio should make up the other hitter.

 

They will never do that to rookie.

That said, Eaton would make a very solid 2 hole hitter but we also don't want to waste his base-stealing ability, either.

 

In the end, Eaton leads off and Johnson is 9th unless he hits .400+ all spring. Even then, he's 8/9 imo. At least until Eaton gets knocked out by injuries and there's no better option available.

 

Agree about the last line wholeheartedly. No Beckham, would even accept Ramirez there, although he's perfectly fine at 6-7 driving the ball like last season.

Edited March 3, 2015 by caulfield12

[chitownsportsfan]

Oh good I see the fans are ready to appoint starters based on spring training results. That always works well. I just hope Robin realizes that spring training numbers have zero correlation to the regular season.

 

Here's a thought experiment, if Beckham hits 350 with 5 homers in the spring and Micah only hits 300 with 2 steals, you gonna give the job to Beckham on the results right? If you want to apply the "Micah earned the start" rule for him, you might as well apply it to Beckham.

 

Point is neither guy has much of a chance to slash better than 250/300/400 no matter what their spring numbers are. Pitchers don't take the spring numbers seriously and it results in incredibly skewed results for hitters.

 

Yea I'm happy Micah is doing well but pump the damn breaks. Remember Jerrod Mitchell's nice spring? Yea.

[ILMOU]

Oh good I see the fans are ready to appoint starters based on spring training results. That always works well. I just hope Robin realizes that spring training numbers have zero correlation to the regular season.

 

Here's a thought experiment, if Beckham hits 350 with 5 homers in the spring and Micah only hits 300 with 2 steals, you gonna give the job to Beckham on the results right? If you want to apply the "Micah earned the start" rule for him, you might as well apply it to Beckham.

 

Point is neither guy has much of a chance to slash better than 250/300/400 no matter what their spring numbers are. Pitchers don't take the spring numbers seriously and it results in incredibly skewed results for hitters.

 

Yea I'm happy Micah is doing well but pump the damn breaks. Remember Jerrod Mitchell's nice spring? Yea.

Aren't you a killjoy? Of course, you're right. But, Micah might be halfway decent, and I'd like him to get an everyday role near the back of the order and find out. He did hit a bit better vs LHP last year , albeit SSS.

 

I think the ceiling is fairly high, so him being good could have real impact.

Edited March 4, 2015 by Stan Bahnsen

[southsider2k5]

Oh good I see the fans are ready to appoint starters based on spring training results. That always works well. I just hope Robin realizes that spring training numbers have zero correlation to the regular season.

 

Here's a thought experiment, if Beckham hits 350 with 5 homers in the spring and Micah only hits 300 with 2 steals, you gonna give the job to Beckham on the results right? If you want to apply the "Micah earned the start" rule for him, you might as well apply it to Beckham.

 

Point is neither guy has much of a chance to slash better than 250/300/400 no matter what their spring numbers are. Pitchers don't take the spring numbers seriously and it results in incredibly skewed results for hitters.

 

Yea I'm happy Micah is doing well but pump the damn breaks. Remember Jerrod Mitchell's nice spring? Yea.

 

Drinking the hatorade like it is midseason.

[Chicago White Sox]

Looking at tomorrows lineup, which is very likely a regular season lineup we'll see against LHP, it's kind of sad to see that some ugly bottom third from last year. Beckham-Flowers-Sanchez has minimal offensive upside. If Micah gets the job and can get on base at a ~33% clip I want him batting lead off. Every time he gets on base he'll get plenty of chances to run with Eaton typically seeing plenty of pitches.

 

The brain trust really seems to love the prospect of Melky hitting second and I understand why but I worry the team, as currently constructed, will be a little too top heavy. I hope they're flexible enough to hit Melky #5 or #6. Especially if Avi Garcia doesn't set the world on fire which is a very real possibility. I know a lot of advanced metrics say you should have your best hitter hitting second but I think we have guys with speed/bat control that could benefit from having speed on base in front of them.

 

Essentially, Eaton should always be #1 or #2 and some mix of Melky, Micah and Bonifacio should make up the other hitter.

I agree with everything you say here, but I think for 2015 at least Micah should bat 9th. First, I see his OBP closer to .300 than .330 given a typical rookie adjustment period, which is too low to bat in either of the two spots directly in front of Abreu IMO. Especially when we have two relatively high OBP guys in Eaton & Melky as alternative for those spots.

 

Second, I want him to have the green light at all times and until he refines his technique/strategy against major league pitchers & catchers, it's better to limit the amount of outs he makes on the base-paths while Abreu is at the plate.

[chitownsportsfan]

I'm the straw the stirs the drink

 

Just kidding this place has a lot of great posters and doesn't tend towards groupthink. It's why I post here now instead of SSS.

 

I'm a Micah hater, it's what I do, until he hits 260/310/400 with 50 of 65 in SB and plays run neutral defense for 150 games at 2B I'm gonna stay on that hate parade.

 

I hope to hell he proves me wrong as a Sox team with a 2-3 WAR 2B in 2015 is a division contender no doubt. Sanchez's ceiling this year is like 1 WAR, Beckham's is like .5 WAR so yea. It would be nice if someone steps up when it counts, not just in spring.

Edited March 4, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[BigHurt3515]

I'm the straw the stirs the drink

 

Just kidding this place has a lot of great posters and doesn't tend towards groupthink. It's why I post here now instead of SSS.

 

I'm a Micah hater, it's what I do, until he hits 260/310/400 with 50 of 65 in SB and plays run neutral defense for 150 games at 2B I'm gonna stay on that hate parade.

 

I hope to hell he proves me wrong as a Sox team with a 2-3 WAR 2B in 2015 is a division contender no doubt. Sanchez's ceiling this year is like 1 WAR, Beckham's is like .5 WAR so yea. It would be nice if someone steps up when it counts, not just in spring.

 

What has Micah done for you to be a hater?

[caulfield12]

What has Micah done for you to be a hater?

 

Not stealing 125 bags last season...

[Jake]

Why would there be any doubt about whetehr the lineup will start with Eaton-Cabrera?

[Jerksticks]

Say Micah outplays everyone by a mile and wins the job. Isn't it almost guaranteed he bats 9th to have the coveted 9-1 combo? Rookie 2 hole? Maybe last year.

[Jose Abreu]

Why would there be any doubt about whetehr the lineup will start with Eaton-Cabrera?

Because there isn't any doubt. It's just "we need real baseball so we need something to talk about" filler. Can't wait for tomorrow.

[chitownsportsfan]

Because there isn't any doubt. It's just "we need real baseball so we need something to talk about" filler. Can't wait for tomorrow.

 

lol well put. We are on the precipice. The only part of spring I really pay attention to -- the first couple weeks -- is finally starting. At least we'll have semi real games to talk about. By the time March 20th rolls around or so however I'm tuned out.

 

I strangely enjoy the WBC, probably because it's real baseball a month ahead of time.

[chitownsportsfan]

Not stealing 125 bags last season...

 

2015 ZiPS 119 544 8 58 44 31 5.9 % 18.9 % .104 .302 .253 .299 .357 .292 82 -1.1 -12.0 -1.0 WAR:0.5

 

2015 ZiPS 135 582 6 57 44 15 5.3 % 17.9 % .086 .301 .253 .297 .340 .284 76 0.2 -15.0 8.1 WAR: 1.3

 

You guess who's who and whose side I'm on. Sox need defense more than stolen bases. Sanchez is the obvious, save choice for a team that thinks they are contending. Let Micah bang the wall down in AAA by going 300/380/500 through June with 30 SB. If that happens and Sanchez is no great shakes then yea, f***ing promote the dude. I'm not even saying ZIPS is better than the Sox' judgement if they think he's the man than fine.

 

Just don't do it on 80 or so almost meaningless spring PA.

Edited March 4, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[BigHurt3515]

2015 ZiPS 119 544 8 58 44 31 5.9 % 18.9 % .104 .302 .253 .299 .357 .292 82 -1.1 -12.0 -1.0 0.5

 

ZiPS 135 582 6 57 44 15 5.3 % 17.9 % .086 .301 .253 .297 .340 .284 76 0.2 -15.0 8.1 1.3

 

You guess whose who and whose side I'm on.

 

You are basing things off dumb projections? Why are you a Micah hater?

[chitownsportsfan]

You are basing things off dumb projections? Why are you a Micah hater?

 

Everyone, including ZIPS (the machine that it is) saw Sanchez last year. Isn't likely to hit much more than 250/290/350 but he's a slick glove guy metrics and scouts both saw that. We saw it, dude has serious range and a solid arm at 2B. Micah is likely to be a poor fielder even if he's better offensively. I don't like that trade off on this team.

Edited March 4, 2015 by chitownsportsfan

[Chicago White Sox]

Everyone, including ZIPS (the machine that it is) saw Sanchez last year. Isn't likely to hit much more than 250/290/350 but he's a slick glove guy metrics and scouts both saw that. We saw it, dude has serious range and a solid arm at 2B. Micah is likely to be a poor fielder even if he's better offensively. I don't like that trade off on this team.

What makes you think Micah is likely to be a poor fielder? And how does ZIPS value defense for a rookie with zero games played in the majors?

[LDF]

I am totally fine with chitownsportsfan's argument and the fact that he is bearish (relative to the SoxTalk crowd) on Micah Johnson. Would the same amount of dissenters have came at him if he was bullish to the same extent? If not, then there's probably a little bit of protecting going on there. He's a good poster and whether everyone agrees with his argument he can make a decent one.

 

 

 

Micah is the fan and organization favorite. The beat writers have been hyping him for the job since last September. Let's not act like a bunch of people didn't have him as the starting 2B yesterday. Caufield was the only one using ST stats to justify an argument. So you're now forming your big argument around a generalization you made on White Sox fans based off of one thing that caulfield said.

 

 

This is why I included the caveat of him getting on base at a 33% clip. My worries were the Sox would be too rigid with lineup slots and choose not to feature other options in the 2 hole. I'd set .305 as the over/under but in the case he outperforms, he needs to be at the top of the lineup with Melky bringing more power in the middle of the lineup. I don't know why anyone would be that excited with Garcia-Gilaspie/Beckham-Alexei-Flowers-Sanchez/Micah 5-9.

 

 

Where is the doubt? I know exactly what Rick Hahn envisioned and what Robin is going to do and that is Melky Cabrera in the #2 hole. My point, based off of the last two years, is that RV would be unwilling or hesitant to move Cabrera down in the lineup if a situation arose where the team would be better served with him at #5. If Avisail Garcia is going .240/.290/.340 in June and we have other options at the #2 spot then Melky should be batting #5.

 

this was a nice discussion, i was catching up on. the only problem i have is, this is the first week of spring training. i would really like to see how the players are separating themselves from the others, in about a month.

 

but as the bolded, i like the idea of having options. this team didn't have that many viable options last yr, this yr, with some of the prospect nipping on the heels of the starters, i like the future.

 

i love this, all this talk, chi baseball talk. music to my ears.

[GreenSox]

Micah is a real prospect. Thus, I want him here when he's really read for the majors. Beating out Beckham or Sanchez is a low bar and doesn't mean he's ready. I'm leery because while he's hit at every level, he didn't hit at AAA in his short stint. Also reports are that he needs work on his defense. Seems like he needs more AAA time and I hate to see another stunted prospect.

 

As for Eaton and steals, that Abreu bats 3rd really takes away some of Eaton's ability to steal. With Abreu up in 2 spots, why take the chance?

I'd like to see the lineup Eaton..X...Melky...Abreu...

Edited March 4, 2015 by GreenSox

[Whisox05]

Micah is a real prospect. Thus, I want him here when he's really read for the majors. Beating out Beckham or Sanchez is a low bar and doesn't mean he's ready. I'm leery because while he's hit at every level, he didn't hit at AAA in his short stint. Also reports are that he needs work on his defense. Seems like he needs more AAA time and I hate to see another stunted prospect.

 

As for Eaton and steals, that Abreu bats 3rd really takes away some of Eaton's ability to steal. With Abreu up in 2 spots, why take the chance?

I'd like to see the lineup Eaton..X...Melky...Abreu...

 

What short stint are you talking about in Charlotte. He had more games there then combined in Birmingham. Plus he actually was hitting in Charlotte before the injury slowed him down.

 

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?sid=m...itting/2014/ALL

 

http://www.milb.com/player/index.jsp?sid=m...ing/2014/MINORS

[shysocks]

Plus he actually was hitting in Charlotte before the injury slowed him down.

I don't think that's true. Maybe I'm not clear on your timeline, but in the ten games he played at Charlotte before he missed two weeks, he hit .273 with one walk, three doubles, and one stolen base. That's not great.

[Whisox05]

I don't think that's true. Maybe I'm not clear on your timeline, but in the ten games he played at Charlotte before he missed two weeks, he hit .273 with one walk, three doubles, and one stolen base. That's not great.

 

That's not the time I'm looking at. If you look at July he got up to .312 batting average. He had to end his season in august cause of an injury.

[ShandyMan]

2015 ZiPS 119 544 8 58 44 31 5.9 % 18.9 % .104 .302 .253 .299 .357 .292 82 -1.1 -12.0 -1.0 WAR:0.5

 

2015 ZiPS 135 582 6 57 44 15 5.3 % 17.9 % .086 .301 .253 .297 .340 .284 76 0.2 -15.0 8.1 WAR: 1.3

 

You guess who's who and whose side I'm on. Sox need defense more than stolen bases. Sanchez is the obvious, save choice for a team that thinks they are contending. Let Micah bang the wall down in AAA by going 300/380/500 through June with 30 SB. If that happens and Sanchez is no great shakes then yea, f***ing promote the dude. I'm not even saying ZIPS is better than the Sox' judgement if they think he's the man than fine.

 

Just don't do it on 80 or so almost meaningless spring PA.

 

micah adds a different element to the game which is really important. sanchez is likely not going to amount to more than a utility player.

[shysocks]

That's not the time I'm looking at. If you look at July he got up to .312 batting average. He had to end his season in august cause of an injury.

Thanks for correcting me. He definitely took a nosedive after that point.

 

Still, his numbers at that peak were not spectacular and I still think he has more to prove in AAA, injured or not. In the meantime, I'm of the opinion we're better off with Sanchez' glove.