Quintana Rumors: Round and round and round we go

[Rowand44]

I'm getting a package of players for Q. Trading Q in a 1 for 1 deal doesn't make any sense.

[Balta1701]

Agreed

 

I would not trade Quintana for only Bregman.

 

Our system needs more depth and we need to get 3 to 5 players in return for Quintana. We have needs all over the place and a major trade chip like him should return us several high quality pieces

With what we've already seen I lean towards preferring this type of deal as well, but if you put me on the spot and made Bregman available I probably take it if that's the best offer I've seen.

 

[Wanne]

Question for the board.

 

What if Houston caved in and said they would trade Bregman but the trade would be Bregman for Q straight up. Would ya do it?

 

I would. There will be people who feel we didn't get enough back...but if you get a return of 3 prospects...and 2 of them turn out to be crap...what's the point?!? Q definitely has great value...but what good does that do the Sox right now? If you get an almost sure thing (IMO) in Bregman...and you'll have him under control...seems to me having him playing 140+ games over 35 starts equates to better value IMO. I'd do it...but if it would make people feel better have Houston throw in a B prospect for cosmetic purposes. But overall I'll take the almost sure thing in Bregman instead of 2 or 3 "what ifs"...

[iamshack]

Absolutely not.

Hard to say without knowing the other packages. It's not the lack of other pieces that bothers me, honestly. We've gotten back 7 guys for Sale and Eaton, including 3-4 really nice arms.

 

The question I would have is where do you play him? If you see him sticking at ss, I would almost move Anderson at this point. If he's destined for 3b, I think I demand others.

 

I can move Q 1-for-1, but I think only for a premium bat at an up the middle position. Anywhere else, I need more than just 1 piece.

[Jose Abreu]

I would. There will be people who feel we didn't get enough back...but if you get a return of 3 prospects...and 2 of them turn out to be crap...what's the point?!?

I'd rather take that risk than take the 1-1 risk.

[KMule2545]

Absolutely not.

 

This. I feel the same way about doing a 1-for-1 Q deal as I felt about potentially doing an Abreu for Moncada 1-for-1. That's not the proper way to rebuild - putting all your risk aka much of your future into one player. IMO, we need 3-5 very talented prospects in these deals instead of 1-for-1 swaps on these elite guys like Bregman for a player like Q or Abreu. Honestly, the only deal I'd be okay getting 1 prospect back in return for would be a Frazier + Robertson for Cody Bellinger deal.

 

I'd rather do Q to Colorado for Rodgers+++ than Bregman straight up with no second thoughts. You're paying a massive premium on Bregman being MLB-ready.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Ro Da Don

[Wanne]

I'd rather take that risk than take the 1-1 risk.

 

I take it then you're not sold on Bregman being a potential star?.....that was my point. To me...he seems like as sure a thing as you'll find in a young player. He'll be a good one I think...

[Eminor3rd]

Question for the board.

 

What if Houston caved in and said they would trade Bregman but the trade would be Bregman for Q straight up. Would ya do it?

 

I would not, but I'm the low guy on Bregman.

 

Regardless, the system still needs depth. I'd really be trying for 3-4 guys for Quintana, even if the last two are lottery tickets.

[KMule2545]

I take it then you're not sold on Bregman being a potential star?.....that was my point. To me...he seems like as sure a thing as you'll find in a young player. He'll be a good one I think...

 

You're discounting injury and a player just not finding his grove at the MLB level. Gordon Beckham looked like a sure thing too.

[caulfield12]

You better be 100% right on Bregman if you do that, obviously.

 

Too risky, to me.

 

I'd prefer to get that package of 4-5 guys, you have a Cameron and a Basabe together in the system, the odds are greatly increased that you're going to hit on at least one of them. Of course, as part of that trade you still have guys like AJ Reed/Tucker/Martes, etc.

 

Putting all your eggs in one basket is risky in investing, and it's the same for prospects.

[Wanne]

You're discounting injury and a player just not finding his grove at the MLB level. Gordon Beckham looked like a sure thing too.

 

touche'. However...at this point I'd still be more about quality than quantity given what we've already gotten back for Sale and Eaton.

[BlackSox13]

Thank you all for your replies.

 

I can argue points for and against the trade proposal. I see it this way. Before the Sale and Eaton trades I would have said hell no to a Q for Bregman deal but since Sale and Eaton brought back so much talent to a help restock the farm I lean towards going for it.

Edited December 9, 2016 by BlackSox13

[KMule2545]

touche'. However...at this point I'd still be more about quality than quantity given what we've already gotten back for Sale and Eaton.

 

But you got both quality AND quantity back in those deals. Ideally we can continue that trend.

[Balta1701]

touche'. However...at this point I'd still be more about quality than quantity given what we've already gotten back for Sale and Eaton.

If you're worried about position player prospects and you get back a single, cost-controlled star, a guy who hits .300+ with 20+ HR and fills a #2/#3 hitter spot in your lineup, and you combine that with Anderson and Moncada, you've filled out 3 of the top 4 slots in your lineup with what will hopefully be strong contributors. With no one else who is a big name, just a bunch of average contributors...team that with a rotation that is at the top of baseball, and you have a roster that is competitive for the division. If he's that good, if we're talking about 3 dynamic players manning 3b, 2b, and SS - find me one more bat who can hit 35 HR (there are several on the market every year right now), find me some average players to hit 5-8 who are good defenders, and I have a championship caliber White Sox roster.

 

Your scouts better like Bregman to do it, the 4/5 player concepts are tempting if you have any available...but a star would do it too.

[QuickJones81]

I take it then you're not sold on Bregman being a potential star?.....that was my point. To me...he seems like as sure a thing as you'll find in a young player. He'll be a good one I think...

 

Bregman RC Year (Age 22): 49 G, 13 2B, 3 3B, 8 HR, .264/.313/.478, 115 OPS+, 1.8 WAR

Beckham RC Year (Age 22): 103 G, 28 2B, 1 3B, 14 HR, .270/.347/.460, 106 OPS+, 2.1 WAR

 

Not very different numbers. We know how things turned out for one of them, which shows that a fast start is not necessarily indicative of being a sure thing.

[BlackSox13]

I would. There will be people who feel we didn't get enough back...but if you get a return of 3 prospects...and 2 of them turn out to be crap...what's the point?!? Q definitely has great value...but what good does that do the Sox right now? If you get an almost sure thing (IMO) in Bregman...and you'll have him under control...seems to me having him playing 140+ games over 35 starts equates to better value IMO. I'd do it...but if it would make people feel better have Houston throw in a B prospect for cosmetic purposes. But overall I'll take the almost sure thing in Bregman instead of 2 or 3 "what ifs"...

You bring up points that were bouncing around my head which led me to post the question. We are definitely thinking along the same lines.

 

The idea of adding Bregman to play along side Anderson and Moncada is just so tantalizing.

 

It's a fun thought but I don't expect the Astros to trade Bregman and if I were in their shoes I wouldn't trade him either.

 

So, have the Rockies come calling yet?

[Wanne]

But you got both quality AND quantity back in those deals. Ideally we can continue that trend.

 

 

oh I agree...you always want both. I think Hahn hit the mother lode with both deals...and it'd be great if it continued. That being the case I think you might have better luck pointing a deal towards Colorado. I'm just not seeing Houston offering up a very large package...and getting them to part with Bregman would be huge. I just don't think you're going to get anywhere close to the packages we've seen already...

 

That being said...if that 1-1 actually went thru...and you'd have told me a few weeks ago:

 

Sox traded Sale, Q and Eaton and got:

 

Moncada

Bregman

Giolito

Kopech

Basabe

Diaz

Lopez

Dunning

 

I probably would have crapped my pants...

 

[Wanne]

If you're worried about position player prospects and you get back a single, cost-controlled star, a guy who hits .300+ with 20+ HR and fills a #2/#3 hitter spot in your lineup, and you combine that with Anderson and Moncada, you've filled out 3 of the top 4 slots in your lineup with what will hopefully be strong contributors. With no one else who is a big name, just a bunch of average contributors...team that with a rotation that is at the top of baseball, and you have a roster that is competitive for the division. If he's that good, if we're talking about 3 dynamic players manning 3b, 2b, and SS - find me one more bat who can hit 35 HR (there are several on the market every year right now), find me some average players to hit 5-8 who are good defenders, and I have a championship caliber White Sox roster.

 

Your scouts better like Bregman to do it, the 4/5 player concepts are tempting if you have any available...but a star would do it too.

 

that's why they get paid the big bucks lol. But like you and blacksox said...have an infield of Moncada/Anderson/Bregman AND Abreu...good lord...that is SICK! That's why I'd do the Q for Bregman straight up...I just think he's gonna be a really good one. But what do I know...

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

If Houston finds the asking price for Q too big...

 

 

... there are alternatives available.

[Balta1701]

that's why they get paid the big bucks lol. But like you and blacksox said...have an infield of Moncada/Anderson/Bregman AND Abreu...good lord...that is SICK! That's why I'd do the Q for Bregman straight up...I just think he's gonna be a really good one. But what do I know...

I have difficulty imagining Jose Abreu as a major positive contributor in 2019 after his previous 3 years and that's the first year where I'd really be looking at Moncada as hopefully being unstoppable, so I mentally counted him as a guy needing replaced by then, or at least not as a major strength.

[KMule2545]

oh I agree...you always want both. I think Hahn hit the mother lode with both deals...and it'd be great if it continued. That being the case I think you might have better luck pointing a deal towards Colorado. I'm just not seeing Houston offering up a very large package...and getting them to part with Bregman would be huge. I just don't think you're going to get anywhere close to the packages we've seen already...

 

That being said...if that 1-1 actually went thru...and you'd have told me a few weeks ago:

 

Sox traded Sale, Q and Eaton and got:

 

Moncada

Bregman

Giolito

Kopech

Basabe

Diaz

Lopez

Dunning

 

I probably would have crapped my pants...

 

Yeah I mean seeing what we got back so far for Sale and Eaton, you could probably demand Rodgers back from Colorado as the headliner. Shoot, Rodgers is ranked just as high as Bregman was before his call up. He'd look just as nice as Bregman would as the 3B of the future. I agree, you're probably looking at a Martes/Reed/Tucker (who I love) + maybe another player back from Houston where you're probably looking at some combo of Rodgers + Dahl/Tapia/Freeland/Pint/Nikorak/Murphy back from Colorado.

Edited December 9, 2016 by Ro Da Don

[reiks12]

that's why they get paid the big bucks lol. But like you and blacksox said...have an infield of Moncada/Anderson/Bregman AND Abreu...good lord...that is SICK! That's why I'd do the Q for Bregman straight up...I just think he's gonna be a really good one. But what do I know...

 

Would look even better with Harper in the OF come 2018. It wont happen but a man can dream..

 

[Wanne]

I have difficulty imagining Jose Abreu as a major positive contributor in 2019 after his previous 3 years and that's the first year where I'd really be looking at Moncada as hopefully being unstoppable, so I mentally counted him as a guy needing replaced by then, or at least not as a major strength.

 

true...if not traded. Bregman/Anderson/Moncada/? Gallo? Abreu would look good in a Ranger uni

 

 

 

 

[bmags]

I have difficulty imagining Jose Abreu as a major positive contributor in 2019 after his previous 3 years and that's the first year where I'd really be looking at Moncada as hopefully being unstoppable, so I mentally counted him as a guy needing replaced by then, or at least not as a major strength.

 

I know we've been burned like crazy but still feel most comfortable leaving 1b power hitter as the position we find in FA

[caulfield12]

The key here is that catching spot, and CF.

 

Can Collins play it well enough...and not impact a young pitching staff from a defensive/leadership standpoint in a negative way?

 

We'll find out soon enough, because he's going to spend time with a lot of those young pitchers before they reach the big leagues.

 

We've seen with Eaton, Cain and Heyward the value that the market is playing on DRS/WAR now (and also the difference between Eaton/DeAza/Rios/Pods in CF vs. on a corner). If the White Sox can develop Basabe (big if) or bring in another version in Cameron, then that solves your four main pieces to the puzzle, and you can address the corners much more easily.

 

In reality, CF and catcher has been an issue for half a decade now...and CF, much longer. And with AJ, you lived with the defensive shortcomings because he made up for it offensively and with gamesmanship, for most of his White Sox career.

 

 

 

Fwiw, Tucker was playing CF in the Quad Cities this summer and looked pretty natural/fluid in the few balls hit to him, but he's not Devon White out there either.

 

 

Edited December 9, 2016 by caulfield12