In July, Sox had deal in place to send A. Garcia to Houston for Martes

[Chicago White Sox]

48 minutes ago, Lillian said:

I think that this board continues to under value Avi. It will be interesting to see what kind of year he has, after his recent knee surgery. Many here are ready to non-tender him. Remember that this is a guy who hit .330 in 2017 and was hitting home runs at a rate, last year, which would have produced 30 round trippers, in an entire season. He did that while hobbled with hamstring and knee problems. It is not unreasonable to think that he might hit around .300 with 25 to 30 homers, if he can stay healthy. That would make him one of the most productive offensive players, on our roster. It certainly does not suggest that he is a candidate to be non-tendered.

He flashed more HR power last year, but his ISO only improved by 25 points (so not materially better).  Meanwhile his K rate jumped by 6.5 points & his BABIP dropped by 120 points.  He’s a better hitter than he showed last year, but the reality is 2017 was a mirage.  And when you factor in his inability to stay healthy, he’s a potentially decent starting RF who will struggle to play a full season.  There isn’t a lot of value in that unfortunately.

 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

42 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

He flashed more HR power last year, but his ISO only improved by 25 points (so not materially better).  Meanwhile his K rate jumped by 6.5 points & his BABIP dropped by 120 points.  He’s a better hitter than he showed last year, but the reality is 2017 was a mirage.  And when you factor in his inability to stay healthy, he’s a potentially decent starting RF who will struggle to play a full season.  There isn’t a lot of value in that unfortunately.

 

Part of my arguments in the past for Avi was that he is the closest thing we have to a JD Martinez. Basically they are the same size . They both show  decent power to the opposite field  They can hit for average. Difference is JD started working with some people who made changes to him in his off season before the Astros let him go. He didn't really even get much of a chance in the spring training after he made those changes. I also suggested Avi work with those same guys who worked with JDM.

Since it was the Astro's who wanted him  maybe they saw or see the same things in AVi and JDM that I have. After all we have all lauded Houston's ability to see talent.

If you search" JD Martinez changed his swing" you will see all kinds of articles and videos on his approach right now.

Edited November 11, 2018 by CaliSoxFanViaSWside
change seem guys to same guys

[Dominikk85]

Yes Garcia would be a swing change candidate, good exit velo but a little low launch angle.

Problem is that a swing change is a risk. JDM was about to be out baseball after Houston released him but Avi already is a decent albeit not great hitter. 

 

2017 was a fluke but I guess his healthy true talent is something like 280 with 15-20 homers which secures him a well paid job. There would be some risk to try a swing change and maybe end up in a mess like heyward or Pederson who change swing like every off season.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

12 minutes ago, dominik-keul@gmx.de said:

Yes Garcia would be a swing change candidate, good exit velo but a little low launch angle.

Problem is that a swing change is a risk. JDM was about to be out baseball after Houston released him but Avi already is a decent albeit not great hitter. 

 

2017 was a fluke but I guess his healthy true talent is something like 280 with 15-20 homers which secures him a well paid job. There would be some risk to try a swing change and maybe end up in a mess like heyward or Pederson who change swing like every off season.

As big and strong as AVi is he could have just as many HR's as JD  with a sucessful swing change. At this point Avi's really got nothing to lose.

[Jack Parkman]

I wish that this thread would die and be buried so I don't have to be reminded that this didn't happen anymore. 

[Bob Sacamano]

3 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

I wish that this thread would die and be buried so I don't have to be reminded that this didn't happen anymore. 

Who knows. Maybe it still can depending on what the Astros do this off season. 

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

3 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

I wish that this thread would die and be buried so I don't have to be reminded that this didn't happen anymore. 

Wha'ts your problem with it ?

[oldsox]

I'm glad the trade didn't go down.

[Jack Parkman]

23 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

What's your problem with it ?

That it didn't happen. I think even with Martes missing the 2019 season with TJS, before he was called up he was a top 30 prospect in baseball. I would take that straight up for Avi 7 days of the week including twice on Sunday. 

I don't want to be reminded that it fell through, as the fact that it fell through stings. 

[Bob Sacamano]

55 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Wha'ts your problem with it ?

I'm guessing that it didn't happen.

[Bob Sacamano]

51 minutes ago, oldsox said:

I'm glad the trade didn't go down.

Why? People here want to non-tender Avi. Even if Martes ends up being a reliever, I'd still gladly take him.

[TaylorStSox]

1 hour ago, Jack Parkman said:

That it didn't happen. I think even with Martes missing the 2019 season with TJS, before he was called up he was a top 30 prospect in baseball. I would take that straight up for Avi 7 days of the week including twice on Sunday. 

I don't want to be reminded that it fell through, as the fact that it fell through stings. 

That's really dramatic. 

[oldsox]

1 hour ago, TaylorStSox said:

That's really dramatic. 

Some people sting easily.  Avi, even with his warts, is a legitimate big leaguer.  If you are gonna give him to a contender with a farm system, get something besides a bad elbow.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

2 hours ago, Jack Parkman said:

That it didn't happen. I think even with Martes missing the 2019 season with TJS, before he was called up he was a top 30 prospect in baseball. I would take that straight up for Avi 7 days of the week including twice on Sunday. 

I don't want to be reminded that it fell through, as the fact that it fell through stings. 

Could be a blessing in disguise.

[Jack Parkman]

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

Could be a blessing in disguise.

Depends on if you think Avi is anything or not. I think he sucks and is going to get non-tendered, so I would have rather received something in return rather than nothing. 

Edited November 12, 2018 by Jack Parkman

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

1 minute ago, Jack Parkman said:

Depends on if you think Avi is anything or not. I think he sucks and is going to get non-tendered, so I would have rather received something in return rather than nothing. 

Admittedly I m one of his biggest advocates. If we gathered up all the Avi sucks posts before he hit .330 and then combined them with all the non tender Avi posts after this year we could probably come up with 500 posts. Hell ,even in my grandiose vision of the Sox contending this year I had the Sox trading Abreu and non tendering Avi to free up salary to sign  FA's to put around either Harper or Machado,even though I can envision AVi doing JD Martinez type things (see my post at the top of this page).

Now I know Avi doing JD Martinez type things is a long shot but so was anyone thinking he could hit .330. I'm really hoping to hear that Avi worked with the same guys who changed JDM's swing and approach some time this off season.

[greg775]

On 11/10/2018 at 2:22 PM, iWiN4PreP said:

Damn, that would have been an awesome deal in retrospect. 

Why? 

Here's what I found: "Martes, 22, underwent surgery to reconstruct the ulnar collateral ligament in his right elbow, a surgery that typically has a 12- to 16-month recovery. Martes threw 54 1/3 innings for the Astros last year, going 5-2 with a 5.80 ERA in 32 games (four starts).Martes threw 19 2/3 innings this year, mostly in four starts at Triple-A Fresno. He walked 17 batters in 18 2/3 innings for the Grizzlies, including eight in 4 1/3 innings in his last start for them on April 29. He threw one inning in a rehab assignment on Aug. 2 in the Gulf Coast League."

What makes Martes even a solid prospect. I get it; Avi is considered no good. So why did the Astros want him if he has little to no value? Just an old school non advanced stat person shaking his head at what constitutes a decent player nowadays.

[CWSpalehoseCWS]

1 hour ago, greg775 said:

Why? 

Here's what I found: "Martes, 22, underwent surgery to reconstruct the ulnar collateral ligament in his right elbow, a surgery that typically has a 12- to 16-month recovery. Martes threw 54 1/3 innings for the Astros last year, going 5-2 with a 5.80 ERA in 32 games (four starts).Martes threw 19 2/3 innings this year, mostly in four starts at Triple-A Fresno. He walked 17 batters in 18 2/3 innings for the Grizzlies, including eight in 4 1/3 innings in his last start for them on April 29. He threw one inning in a rehab assignment on Aug. 2 in the Gulf Coast League."

What makes Martes even a solid prospect. I get it; Avi is considered no good. So why did the Astros want him if he has little to no value? Just an old school non advanced stat person shaking his head at what constitutes a decent player nowadays.

Before the injury, Martes was a very highly regarded arm in the Astros system. BA had him ranked #20  in the Top 100 in 2016.

[ChiliIrishHammock24]

On 11/10/2018 at 2:41 PM, ChiSox59 said:

Avi got his knee operated on, no?

They were willing to pay for the help in the 2018 season. That part of their value in the trade is now gone.

[CaliSoxFanViaSWside]

9 hours ago, CWSpalehoseCWS said:

Before the injury, Martes was a very highly regarded arm in the Astros system. BA had him ranked #20  in the Top 100 in 2016.

And before Avi was hurt last year he hit .330 like actually in the big leagues not as a highly ranked minor league guy.

[iWiN4PreP]

11 hours ago, greg775 said:

Why? 

Here's what I found: "Martes, 22, underwent surgery to reconstruct the ulnar collateral ligament in his right elbow, a surgery that typically has a 12- to 16-month recovery. Martes threw 54 1/3 innings for the Astros last year, going 5-2 with a 5.80 ERA in 32 games (four starts).Martes threw 19 2/3 innings this year, mostly in four starts at Triple-A Fresno. He walked 17 batters in 18 2/3 innings for the Grizzlies, including eight in 4 1/3 innings in his last start for them on April 29. He threw one inning in a rehab assignment on Aug. 2 in the Gulf Coast League."

What makes Martes even a solid prospect. I get it; Avi is considered no good. So why did the Astros want him if he has little to no value? Just an old school non advanced stat person shaking his head at what constitutes a decent player nowadays.

As CWSpalehose stated, Martes was a highly sout offer prospect as recent as 2017. He was ranked 15 in all of baseball at this time.

Sure, he had his injury and struggled in his first go around, but this wasn't some flyer, this was a high caliber prospect... I'm not sure of comparisons or ranks, but #15 in all of baseball has to be close to what Cease/Kopech range.

 

Getting something like that back for Avi, who is oft-injured, and undefined, and getting out of our time line... is pretty damn good. Not only that, but F. Martes is basically 'ready' within the next year.

[Balta1701]

1 hour ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

And before Avi was hurt last year he hit .330 like actually in the big leagues not as a highly ranked minor league guy.

Huh? No he didn't, on April 23 before he hit the disabled list for the first time he was hitting .233. He had a 12 game stretch right when he came back from the disabled list, from June 22 to July 4, where he hit .364 over that stretch, but his numbers withered again after that.

[Dick Allen]

17 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

Huh? No he didn't, on April 23 before he hit the disabled list for the first time he was hitting .233. He had a 12 game stretch right when he came back from the disabled list, from June 22 to July 4, where he hit .364 over that stretch, but his numbers withered again after that.

Check out Avi's 2017 season. You will see he hit .330 in the major leagues.

[Balta1701]

5 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

Check out Avi's 2017 season. You will see he hit .330 in the major leagues.

That sure didn't sound like it was describing his 2017 season, I never woulda guessed that was what the post was referring to as it said "Before avi was hurt last year". The "last year" part was taken by me to mean "last year", not "2 seasons ago". I coulda read that wrong, but at least it wasn't clear to me.

[Dick Allen]

Just now, Balta1701 said:

That sure didn't sound like it was describing his 2017 season, I never woulda guessed that was what the post was referring to as it said "Before avi was hurt last year". The "last year" part was taken by me to mean "last year", not "2 seasons ago". 

It was worded incorrectly but pretty obvious what was meant.