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Sleepy Harold

Nick Madrigal promoted to Birmingham

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Just now, Jake said:

I do think there's a train of thought that he's a .700-ish OPS guy and he's going to put up similar numbers at every level so there's no use spinning the wheels waiting for him to perform better than you think he will. The idea being that his numbers won't vary level to level all that much, so once he's locked in at this level of production, just promote him and wait till he gets locked in at the same productivity at the next league, and so on.

It's certainly possible; if his numbers are in the .725-.750 range at birmingham then he looks a lot more like a big leaguer. It just remains that he has very little margin for error; if his batting average drops a little more, then he falls onto the other edge of the knife. 

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3 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

It's certainly possible; if his numbers are in the .725-.750 range at birmingham then he looks a lot more like a big leaguer. It just remains that he has very little margin for error; if his batting average drops a little more, then he falls onto the other edge of the knife. 

I just wish he would sell out a little bit. Raising his K% by even just 4-7% and compensating for it by adding points to his slugging would make him a much better prospect IMO. He generates so much weight transfer on his swing, the potential for it is definitely there. 

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42 minutes ago, Jake said:

Madrigal's final 17 games in Winston-Salem:

.313 average, .385 OBP, .448 SLG

3 2B, 2 HR, 9 SB 1 CS

7 BB (1 IBB), 2 HBP, 1 K

That is what we all expected. If this was truly wrist finally healing...this is great production 

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1 hour ago, EloyJenkins said:

Yeah. I think it comes down to Robert. Do Sox want Robert to be the Alfonso Soriano leadoff type with 40 homers or slot him at #2 or #5. Moncada as a #2 just works I think. 

If I had my way for 2021-

1. Robert

2. Moncada

3. Jimenez

4. Vaughn

5. JD Martinez/Collins/Burger DH

6. McCann/Collins

7. Anderson

8. RF FA

9. Madrigal

 

For 2020 I think JD is the target for DH and you put whomever at first.

I like this, but agree with @fathom that you would flip/flop 6&8 depending on the RF FA.  JD Martinez would be great, but that might be shooting for the moon there.

Modern lineup construction you want Robert/Moncada/Jimenez/Vaughn getting as many ABs as possible.  Robert could be our George Springer in the leadoff spot.  And actually having Madrigal as 9 should give Robert a lot of RBI opportunities if Madrigal can get on base like I hope.  This could be a REALLY good lineup if it works out correctly.

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11 minutes ago, DirtySox said:

How much more bunting will we see with Madrigal due to the Omar factor?

Definitely swore at you for posting this 

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1 minute ago, TaylorStSox said:

Moncada in the 2 hole is a waste of the team's best hitter. 

How so?  You want your best hitters hitting 1-2-3-4.  No bunting allowed.

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1 minute ago, fathom said:

Definitely swore at you for posting this 

I personally chuckled...and then slumped in a sigh for Vizquel continued bunting.

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10 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Moncada in the 2 hole is a waste of the team's best hitter. 

Agree.

Madrigal 2B

Robert CF

Moncada 3B

Jimenez LF

Vaughn 1B

Schwarber DH

Collins/McCann C

Anderson SS

Basabe/Tilson/IDGAF RF

Edited by soxfan49

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12 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Moncada in the 2 hole is a waste of the team's best hitter. 

Robert, Moncada 1-2 is smart as it gives them the most plate appearances. 

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15 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Moncada in the 2 hole is a waste of the team's best hitter. 

I would tell you it's the best place for him

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12 minutes ago, BFirebird said:

How so?  You want your best hitters hitting 1-2-3-4.  No bunting allowed.

Because most MLB managers still believe in sacrificing AB's to get runners over. I'd prefer Moncada never wastes an AB and he also has some bat control issues. Madrigal is a much better fit for that role. Moncada should be trying to get on base and drive the ball. That's why I like him leading off. 

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51 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I just wish he would sell out a little bit. Raising his K% by even just 4-7% and compensating for it by adding points to his slugging would make him a much better prospect IMO. He generates so much weight transfer on his swing, the potential for it is definitely there. 

It may just be being more selective. If he can hit everything then he should be more comfortable looking for pitches up and in that he can drive.

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2 hours ago, mqr said:

Wow they really want him the be the 2nd basemen next year. 

I understand the disappointment of some fans, but madrigal has been nearly as advertised so far... he just hasn't upped his hit authority to a level that enhances his hit tool to the fullest ability.

Madigral has the lowest swing and miss and lowest strike out rate in all of professional baseball. He's not overmatched in the least bit at his level. His elite hit tool has been on full display but it's being dragged down by his lack of power right now.

If madrigal goes to the AA and maintains baseballs lowest K and swing and miss rate then his overall production should remain nearly the same as it is now. He shouldnt see much regression between any level because his babip cant go much lower as their is a floor regardless of contact quality.

Madrigal has been fine. His k-bb percentage is excellent. His base running and defense are both still excellent. Madrigal is about 5 mph of EV away from hitting 330 regardless of level; assuming he continues to not be overmatched which he has shown no signs of being yet.

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58 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I just wish he would sell out a little bit. Raising his K% by even just 4-7% and compensating for it by adding points to his slugging would make him a much better prospect IMO. He generates so much weight transfer on his swing, the potential for it is definitely there. 

At this point its pitch selection not selling out that is his problem. His hands are so incredible that he can hit anything and everything whenever he wants. What his next step of development should be is identifying those pitches that he can hit with more authority and attacking those as opposed to attacking everything close to the strike zone. He's clearly talented enough to make contact on almost anything, so now he just needs to adjust to attack his pitch.

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People just need to accept that he's not a fantasy player and he'll never have a pretty slashline. That doesn't mean he can't be an extremely valuable player. He has a couple of elite tools. I don't think it's worth a top 5 pick, but it is what it is. 

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3 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

People just need to accept that he's not a fantasy player and he'll never have a pretty slashline. That doesn't mean he can't be an extremely valuable player. He has a couple of elite tools. I don't think it's worth a top 5 pick, but it is what it is. 

I actually disagree here. All he has to do is add a little authority (not a lot) to his skill set and he becomes as 750/800 slashing 2nd baseman with GG defense and elite base running... while competing for batting titles. That's a consistent 4+ WAR player... well worth his draft slot.

Also, let me add that the new baseball will greatly help someone like madrigal.. much more than it would an already powerful hitter. 

He should benefit significantly from it.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run
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8 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

I actually disagree here. All he has to do is add a little authority (not a lot) to his skill set and he becomes as 750/800 slashing 2nd baseman with GG defense and elite base running... while competing for batting titles. That's a consistent 4+ WAR player... well worth his draft slot.

Also, let me add that the new baseball will greatly help someone like madrigal.. much more than it would an already powerful hitter. 

He should benefit significantly from it.

Competing for batting titles? That's a stretch. 

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16 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

Competing for batting titles? That's a stretch. 

He has arguably the best bat to ball skills in professional baseball. If they're not the best, they are very close. That is typically what will lead someone towards batting titles and high averages.

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16 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He has arguably the best bat to ball skills in professional baseball. If they're not the best, they are very close. That is typically what will lead someone towards batting titles and high averages.

He's fast too. It's super premature to talk batting titles though. 

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58 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

He has arguably the best bat to ball skills in professional baseball. If they're not the best, they are very close. That is typically what will lead someone towards batting titles and high averages.

This statement is only true if he can drive the ball. If the defense can play him in/shift him and expect fairly weak contact, then his average will be surprisingly low - as it has been this year. That is why I keep stressing the importance of the power game - it is the thing required for him to be able to do what you're asking for. 

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10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

This statement is only true if he can drive the ball. If the defense can play him in/shift him and expect fairly weak contact, then his average will be surprisingly low - as it has been this year. That is why I keep stressing the importance of the power game - it is the thing required for him to be able to do what you're asking for. 

Agreed, although I dont think the shift can be implemented against madrigal given his great bat control.

I obviously agree that with no spike in contact authority, he'll never get to those high averages. He also won't hold a walk rate anywhere near where it is now, in the big leagues, if he doesnt show an ability to hurt pitchers in any way with EBH.

I think as an organization, the Sox just want to see madrigal maintain those bat to ball skills and continue to look not overmatched, and they feel he'll grow into enough power that when paired with the new baseballs will help overcome what he lacks in the power tool with his incredible hit tool. As of now, I am happy with how madrigal has looked as I think the power will grow as his wrist continues to gain strength.

Edited by Look at Ray Ray Run

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15 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Agreed, although I dont think the shift can be implemented against madrigal given his great bat control.

I obviously agree that with no spike in contact authority, he'll never get to those high averages. He also won't hold a walk rate anywhere near where it is now, in the big leagues, if he doesnt show an ability to hurt pitchers in any way with EBH.

I think as an organization, the Sox just want to see madrigal maintain those bat to ball skills and continue to look not overmatched, and they feel he'll grow into enough power that when paired with the new baseballs will help overcome what he lacks in the power tool with his incredible hit tool.

Since Madrigal got into our system he's gone the opposite way over 45% of the time (slightly better, 41% this season). Bryce Harper has been hurt enough by the Shift that Boras called it out for hurting his player, and Harper only pulls the ball 39.3% of the time in his career. So far, shifting Madrigal the opposite way is currently more effective at getting him out than shifting Harper to pull, and I'm not sure how heavily they would use the shift at A-ball.

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