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Sox acquire Nomar Mazara for Steele Walker

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4 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Yep, there’s always another star player that Sox fan lemmings can fantasize that our awful front office will make a run at.  They are  starting to sounds like Cubs fans with the motto of, “There’s always next year!”

NASCAR

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I have no idea how people are actually defending this without being just shills.

There is NOTHING to suggest this makes the White Sox better then just signing any myriad of FA's available.  

This is like buying Bitcoin at 19k and praying on potential.

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I think people should look at this move separate from spending more money. There was no real right fielder available besides Calhoun. Castellanos and Ozuna would likely be worse than Mazara out there, and Calhoun's career offensive numbers are close to Mazara's. This move says "we don't like what's available in free agency" and I can't fault them for that. If Mazara sucks they likely let him go and see if Basabe/Adolfo/Gonzalez are ready, or look at free agent/trade options next year. If he's good then they can try to extend him, trade him for pitching or keep him around for one more year as they continue to look for a long-term option in RF.

Also, people assuming 2020 would be a competitive year are fooling themselves. They'll probably be around .500. Kopech, Cease, Robert and Madrigal all need time to develop at the MLB level and will likely struggle for a good part of the season. Lopez and Rodon are unknowns. We may see some regression from Anderson, Moncada and Giolito. Unless the Sox signed Cole, Strasburg and Rendon this wouldn't have been a competitive team.

That said, if they don't spend money wisely on good free agents this and next year then I'll join in on the hate for that like I did last year with Machado and Harper.

Edited by almagest

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15 minutes ago, PolishPrince34 said:

I like this deal and think it will turn out in Sox favor. Mazara will only make $5.6 million, have 2 years of control, about to turn 25 years old best years are ahead of him, bats lefty which Sox needed. Walker is only 13 months younger in High A Ball, hasn't been able to hit lefties, and shown little power. I know Mazara also has had difficulties hitting lefties, but was rushed with the Rangers and I think things might click in a different environment. I know analytics have been down on him, but has a ton of upside and is definitely a need and risk the White Sox should take. 

Surely it is an upgrade over a sorry situation. Platoon him some in RF and DH which will add depth.

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1 minute ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I have no idea how people are actually defending this without being just shills.

There is NOTHING to suggest this makes the White Sox better then just signing any myriad of FA's available.  

This is like buying Bitcoin at 19k and praying on potential.

It's actually nothing like buying high.

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10 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I would have no problem with Price. I don't see the White Sox finding a way to make that work now. The Red Sox wouldn't have liked any of their moves, but packaging Benintendi with Price is the only way I could really see them pulling it off - clearing 2 contracts at once. They aren't going to want to send along money to the White Sox when they're trying to save money, and they're not going to be thrilled about including the limited prospects they have to make that deal. Benintendi + Price together was the only way I could see that work for the White Sox - both are pricey, but both satisfy things the White Sox needed. Now with no need for Benintendi, I will be surprised if there's any way to make it work now.

But that's my issue.

No matter who the Sox get, people will complain. Look at a few pages back. People were saying Mazara might be better than Benintendi, so why would Benintendi excite the fan base? Why would Price? Even if Boston ate a lot of money, he would still be owed a lot by the Sox and he's getting worse by the year.

If they signed Bumgarner, we'd complain about the high volume of flyballs he gives up. If they sign Ryu, a bunch of smartasses will complain about injuries. How can they win?

If anyone came into the offseason expecting Cole or Strasburg, that was the issue from the beginning. They had no shot. They gave Wheeler more than Philadelphia. He wanted to go play in that dump; so be it.

Marcell Ozuna isn't great. Castellanos is worse defensively than Mazara. Let's allow this to play out. The Sox are going to hit. We'll see if they can get some starting pitching. If they don't, that's when I'll get frustrated.

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3 minutes ago, ptatc said:

Again missing the entire point but keep up with the same diatribe and bitterness.

BackDoorBreach already addressed your post perfectly.  Using career numbers for Castellanos was hilarious.

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I’m just scared of the lineup Ricky’s gut tells him to make with this new toy. You just know he is batting 3rd or 4th, yuck

 

Edited by Orlando

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2 minutes ago, Kyyle23 said:

No you said one player makes the entire difference.  Not the same thing.   Tell me how good those teams pitching and offenses were besides the two players you listed.  What a garbage argument.   Mauer was mvp level that year, Pavano and liriano were good and their bullpen was shut down. 03 had that Same shut down pen and their offense was also really good

I never used the phrase “entire” difference.   Please quote that back to me.   Compare the statistics for Sox 5th starters that season vs. Rogers.  There’s no more obvious discrepancy.  Rogers was a FA anyone could have acquired for just a small amount of money. That’s the key point.  In 2003, Loiaza simply wore down and they were toast against the Twins after the Jose Paniagua near comeback win/loss.  Burke and Hunter were probably in there somewhere as well.

2010 the Twins might have beaten the Sox if Thome and Kotsay were flipped, but 2003 is the most obvious situation where one move/non-move made all the difference.

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4 minutes ago, BackDoorBreach said:

I have no idea how people are actually defending this without being just shills.

There is NOTHING to suggest this makes the White Sox better then just signing any myriad of FA's available.  

This is like buying Bitcoin at 19k and praying on potential.

You actually think Mazara has a 0% chance of success? Because bitcoin has a 0% chance of success and that's the comparison you just made.

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Just now, Orlando said:

I’m just scared of the lineup Ricky’s gut tells him to make with this new toy. You just know he is batting 3rd or 4th, yuck

 

I'm already afraid of having Abreu 3rd and Mazara 4th while Eloy and Grandal, the two better hitters, hit 5/6. It's not the end of the world but over the course of a full season it probably costs us a game or two. 

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4 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

But that's my issue.

No matter who the Sox get, people will complain. Look at a few pages back. People were saying Mazara might be better than Benintendi, so why would Benintendi excite the fan base? Why would Price? Even if Boston ate a lot of money, he would still be owed a lot by the Sox and he's getting worse by the year.

If they signed Bumgarner, we'd complain about the high volume of flyballs he gives up. If they sign Ryu, a bunch of smartasses will complain about injuries. How can they win?

If anyone came into the offseason expecting Cole or Strasburg, that was the issue from the beginning. They had no shot. They gave Wheeler more than Philadelphia. He wanted to go play in that dump; so be it.

Marcell Ozuna isn't great. Castellanos is worse defensively than Mazara. Let's allow this to play out. The Sox are going to hit. We'll see if they can get some starting pitching. If they don't, that's when I'll get frustrated.

My issue is...unless they make moves they don't want to make, they are not going to ever be a championship level team.

Remember this - in Theo Epstein's 4th season as Cubs GM, his team won 96 games and was in an NLCS game 7. In Jeff Luhnow's 4th season, the Astros won 85 games and lost in the Wild Card round. Neither of them had the advantage of the Sale, Eaton, and Quintana trade hauls to help them start off.

This is the 4th season after the rebuild. If they aren't a wild card team,  then they are vastly underperforming the Cubs and Astros. 

Are they making the kind of moves right now that will turn them into a wild card contender? No, this is a rebuilding team move. It could work out great, but it's definitely a rebuilding team move - save money, get a little upside. 

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4 minutes ago, almagest said:

I think people should look at this move separate from spending more money. There was no real right fielder available besides Calhoun. Castellanos and Ozuna would likely be worse than Mazara out there, and Calhoun's career offensive numbers are close to Mazara's. This move says "we don't like what's available in free agency" and I can't fault them for that. If Mazara sucks they likely let him go and see if Basabe/Adolfo/Gonzalez are ready, or look at free agent/trade options next year. If he's good then they can try to extend him, trade him for pitching or keep him around for one more year as they continue to look for a long-term option in RF.

Also, people assuming 2020 would be a competitive year are fooling themselves. They'll probably be around .500. Kopech, Cease, Robert and Madrigal all need time to develop at the MLB level and will likely struggle for a good part of the season. Lopez and Rodon are unknowns. We may see some regression from Anderson, Moncada and Giolito. Unless the Sox signed Cole, Strasburg and Rendon this wouldn't have been a competitive team.

That said, if they don't spend money wisely on good free agents this and next year then I'll join in on the hate for that like I did last year with Machado and Harper.

Dickerson Gardner Avi Puig then...

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Just now, caulfield12 said:

I never used the phrase “entire” difference.   Please quote that back to me.   Compare the statistics for Sox 5th starters that season vs. Rogers.  There’s no more obvious discrepancy.  Rogers was a FA anyone could have acquired for just a small amount of money. That’s the key point.  In 2003, Loiaza simply wore down and they were toast against the Twins after the Jose Paniagua near comeback win/loss.  Burke and Hunter were probably in there somewhere as well.

2010 the Twins might have beaten the Sox if Thome and Kotsay were flipped, but 2003 is the most obvious situation where one move/non-move made all the difference.

No you said the twins acquiring one of the lefties would make it hard for the Sox to contend for three years.  Still garbage 

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2 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

BackDoorBreach already addressed your post perfectly.  Using career numbers for Castellanos was hilarious.

I'm glad it amuses you. Not using career numbers for one and guaranteeing a young player cant improve with the other. 

As I said fit it to your agenda.

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1 minute ago, soxfan49 said:

You actually think Mazara has a 0% chance of success? Because bitcoin has a 0% chance of success and that's the comparison you just made.

Mazara is a replacement level player.

Who is a better player next year

Mazara 

Or

Castellanos/Puig/Ozuna

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23 minutes ago, BurlyMan56 said:

Living 5 minutes from Globe Life Park in Arlington, I have seen quite a bit of Nomar Mazara. Not only against our Sox but against other teams. This guy has loads of potential. The past few years, he was a huge part of their offense at a very very young age. The majority of his at bats he was batting 3rd and 4th in their lineup as a 21-23 year old. Our ballpark will play similar if not better and although he is not the greatest defensively, he's not the worst of the available options and his arm is strong. This was the guy I wanted at the beginning of the offseason ahead of Ozuna and Castellanos, Puig, and whoever else. Dropping to 6th and 7th in our lineup- I'm not a scout but I believe he will flourish in a Sox uniform.

 

I was at the game in Texas last year when he hit that 505ft bomb. (side note I also sat next to and met Scotty Pods that day.) There were definitely better RF options but I like Mazaras young age, potential upside, and power in our park. Hoping also that Menechino or our scouts (lol) picked up something they can work with him on.

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If you guys expected us to sign Cole or Strasburg this year, your setting your hopes up way too much. Same for dishing out loads of money for a couple FA’s that are older and may very well be on there downslope of there careers. I just don’t get it. 

Edited by maloney.adam

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You, an idiot:  One player doesn‘t make or break a season.

Me, an intellectual: Kenny Rogers, Matt Thornton, Jim Thome, Torii Hunter, Miguel Cabrera, Yasiel Puig. Damn Millenials!

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2 minutes ago, Moan4Yoan said:

Nice response.

Do you think the Sox have a chance in hell at signing Betts next offseason?

I just like your NASCAR responses.

I think there are many things they can do to improve the team. I dont think they always have to buy the shniest object to become a playoff team. I'm not stuck to the idea of only one way to win, especially with the budgetary constraints the FO has.

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Just now, ptatc said:

I'm glad it amuses you. Not using career numbers for one and guaranteeing a young player cant improve with the other. 

As I said fit it to your agenda.

Try to look at consistency over their most recent seasons.

Your agenda is to say a much better and consistent hitting player is a worse option than a much cheaper player who can’t hit just because he has potential.  It’s almost like Hahn and Kenny are trying to sell Mazara to us directly.

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1 minute ago, Balta1701 said:

My issue is...unless they make moves they don't want to make, they are not going to ever be a championship level team.

Remember this - in Theo Epstein's 4th season as Cubs GM, his team won 96 games and was in an NLCS game 7. In Jeff Luhnow's 4th season, the Astros won 85 games and lost in the Wild Card round. Neither of them had the advantage of the Sale, Eaton, and Quintana trade hauls to help them start off.

This is the 4th season after the rebuild. If they aren't a wild card team,  then they are vastly underperforming the Cubs and Astros. 

It’s hard to precisely date the Royals’ rebuild, but they were propelled by adding James Shields in late 2012 for Wil Myers in order to stabilize the rotation and help lead them to the mid 80’s in wins in 2013.

The Cubs has the Lester signing.

We almost had a Wheeler signing.   
 

We’re still one difference-making pitcher short.

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Just now, ptatc said:

I just like your NASCAR responses.

I think there are many things they can do to improve the team. I dont think they always have to buy the shniest object to become a playoff team. I'm not stuck to the idea of only one way to win, especially with the budgetary constraints the FO has.

If my responses are “NASCAR”, your responses indicate that you are carrying water for the Sox front office just like our local beat reporters.

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