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COVID-19/Coronavirus thread

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I still don't know how anyone can still predict a V shaped recovery. A large portion of these small businesses, if they opened them all up today, are going to go under. They won't get the volume of business they need until there is a vaccine IMO, it's going to be a long, slow recovery, even with all the Fed activity. It is funny, the guy Trump always seems to go after, Powell, is probably the guy Trump owes the most to in trying to fix the damage the adminstration's mistakes caused.

And then there is Jared who said everything will be getting close to normal in July, during his victory lap the day the 60,000th US citizen died from this virus that the same people said was shut down months ago.

Edited by Dick Allen
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7 hours ago, greg775 said:

Sorry Caulfield, I wish u the best. You are a good guy I bet. My frustration with this situation is some of these governors appear way too power hungry, including the one in Kansas who won't let me get my hair cut. I feel like there needs to be a balance here. The economic impact of this suggests people soon will be dying. Deaths of hunger and being homeless because of layoffs are real. We must compromise and put people back to work. And these power hungry governors need to shut the bleep up with their ORDERS and COMMANDS. I'll proably be arrested before this is all over cause I'm not going to wear a mask at all times. So I'll probably be thrown in jail. This situation makes me understand why so many people want to keep their guns. I never would be comfortable with a gun but I can see why people would feel the need to have one with possible chaos coming if not this pandemic but the next.

Take care Caulfield. Hope you pass the tests so you don't get roughed up by that government there.

Hey Greg can you explain to me how a governor shutting down the economy (which best reflects his/her administration, knowing that unemployment will go through the roof) indicates that they are trying to grab power?  And also, how does this grabbed power exceed their current power, and how does that power benefit the governor?  Thanks 

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7 hours ago, greg775 said:

Sorry Caulfield, I wish u the best. You are a good guy I bet. My frustration with this situation is some of these governors appear way too power hungry, including the one in Kansas who won't let me get my hair cut. I feel like there needs to be a balance here. The economic impact of this suggests people soon will be dying. Deaths of hunger and being homeless because of layoffs are real. We must compromise and put people back to work. And these power hungry governors need to shut the bleep up with their ORDERS and COMMANDS. I'll proably be arrested before this is all over cause I'm not going to wear a mask at all times. So I'll probably be thrown in jail. This situation makes me understand why so many people want to keep their guns. I never would be comfortable with a gun but I can see why people would feel the need to have one with possible chaos coming if not this pandemic but the next.

Take care Caulfield. Hope you pass the tests so you don't get roughed up by that government there.

Starve and die with long hair or get a gun -- it's your choice. We need you out there helping to spread the virus. Without volunteers like you the virus will wither and die. Even in the US there are still vast areas with no reported cases. That's unacceptable. We need people infected and moving around. This is your destiny. This is your moment in time. Go get that hair cut. Someone has to have an underground barbershop in Kansas. Resist the man and his attempt to stop this virus. 

Take care greg775 and thank you for always taking on the toughest points of view. 

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3 hours ago, Kyyle23 said:

It honestly never occurred to me that The Walking Dead might have started because boomers couldn't get their haircuts

Give me liberty and give everyone death.

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It is time to have some common sense in the current political debate. But you won't get that as long as Trump is in the White House. People are dying by the tens of thousands and whistle dick Jared is talking about all the successes. Why is he even near a position of power? He is not even a functioning adult.

And Democrats? It is time to find an alternative to Biden. Instead of endorsements, they should be looking for another nominee. Way to go, Hillary.

The American political system is letting us down during the biggest crisis in our history. I don't care about the politics of it. We are up against it. This is bigger than Trump, McConnell or Biden. I am starting to think that McConnell is worse than Trump. That man is corrupt, as corrupt as anyone can be.

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13 hours ago, caulfield12 said:

If you divide deaths (and Florida is already deliberately trying to cover up their numbers already) 

 

Source?

 

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21 minutes ago, soxfan49 said:

A reporter asked her about Trump singling out certain cities that have many immigrants and she responded with "we don't follow that racist and xenophobic ideology." 

Same reporter/different reporter went to ask about "Trump has said.." and Lightfoot interrupted by saying "he has said many questionable things in the last 3.5 years."

 

I have admired her ever since The Wreck Of The Edmund Fitzgerald. 

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1 hour ago, Kyyle23 said:

Hey Greg can you explain to me how a governor shutting down the economy (which best reflects his/her administration, knowing that unemployment will go through the roof) indicates that they are trying to grab power?  And also, how does this grabbed power exceed their current power, and how does that power benefit the governor?  Thanks 

I wonder this is as well. Ran past a colleague’s FB yesterday that was complaining about not opening things back up, and some of the comments were your typical “Look around man, this is all political, they are trying to control us, this is what they want!” 
 

I just can’t fathom how you get to that logic. How does this help them? 

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2 hours ago, Brian said:

Dude's should just shave their heads. It's liberating and will grow back.

That's pretty much what I did.  I have a stubble buzz.  Granted it wasn't the original intent, but it works.

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1 hour ago, The Beast said:

There’s way too much whining about not being able to get haircuts, meat from the store, Starbucks coffee and then there is anger about layoffs, protests and the divide of those who want to open the economy and those who want to re-open after the orders end. There’s a lot of fearmongering out there.

It’s annoying how people don’t consider alternatives like cutting their own hair, making meatless meals, making their own meals and getting a walk or run in if there’s a shelter in place in their state.

I can understand the argument about Sweden’s way of combating the virus, but I am concerned about the elderly, people in their 60s, and a second wave of the virus with another lockdown, giving people more to b**** about. 

There needs to be a gradual reopening rather than some politicians in southern Illinois trying to re-open the state based on technicalities. Both parties could work together on a fair reopening strategy in phases than opening everything up at once. There’s too many variables in play and too much not known to go back to how things were, which some people seem to want to do immediately.

Sweeden hasn't been a success at this.  That is problem number one.  People are dying at a higher rate there than all of the surrounding countries.  They are also outpacing the US in deaths per capita.

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43 minutes ago, NWINFan said:

It is time to have some common sense in the current political debate. But you won't get that as long as Trump is in the White House. People are dying by the tens of thousands and whistle dick Jared is talking about all the successes. Why is he even near a position of power? He is not even a functioning adult.

And Democrats? It is time to find an alternative to Biden. Instead of endorsements, they should be looking for another nominee. Way to go, Hillary.

The American political system is letting us down during the biggest crisis in our history. I don't care about the politics of it. We are up against it. This is bigger than Trump, McConnell or Biden. I am starting to think that McConnell is worse than Trump. That man is corrupt, as corrupt as anyone can be.

It is so depressing.

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45 minutes ago, Quin said:

Give me liberty and give everyone death.

Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

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4 minutes ago, Tony said:

I wonder this is as well. Ran past a colleague’s FB yesterday that was complaining about not opening things back up, and some of the comments were your typical “Look around man, this is all political, they are trying to control us, this is what they want!” 
 

I just can’t fathom how you get to that logic. How does this help them? 

It doesn't make a bit of sense.  To grab power, they are going to shoot their states in the knees.  My favorite part is how the rest of the world went along with this hoax.  I mean how amazing is it that the liberal media can get the entire world to shutdown, including our enemies like Russia and China who would love nothing more than to expose America for falling victim to the greatest hoax of all time.  But apparently instead, they fall in line behind the American liberal media.  You would think with that much power, they could nominate a decent Presidential candidate or win the Senate, right? 

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38 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

Sweeden hasn't been a success at this.  That is problem number one.  People are dying at a higher rate there than all of the surrounding countries.  They are also outpacing the US in deaths per capita.

It’s an argument I acknowledge, but one I don’t necessarily agree with.

1 hour ago, NWINFan said:

It is time to have some common sense in the current political debate. But you won't get that as long as Trump is in the White House. People are dying by the tens of thousands and whistle dick Jared is talking about all the successes. Why is he even near a position of power? He is not even a functioning adult.

And Democrats? It is time to find an alternative to Biden. Instead of endorsements, they should be looking for another nominee. Way to go, Hillary.

The American political system is letting us down during the biggest crisis in our history. I don't care about the politics of it. We are up against it. This is bigger than Trump, McConnell or Biden. I am starting to think that McConnell is worse than Trump. That man is corrupt, as corrupt as anyone can be.

Who could the Democrats possibly come up with to rise to the occasion, appease the wide party and beat Trump? No question on McConnell, he’s garbage. There’s a podcast series on him. People forget about how obstructionist he was when the GOP wasn’t in power, one of my counter points to Trump supporters blaming Democrats.

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I want to throw some of the opposite out.

While the federal government has been often terrible here in the places i think it can make the biggest impact (purchasing power, borrowing)

- State and local governments have been doing quite well in addressing the pandemic, including some very ambitious and amazing work to get additional PPE and testing set-up. 

- The American people have answered the call, doing a very good job as a whole of staying inside. We can get upset all we want about the isolated stories, but in the times i've had to drive around - chicago is empty. My dad is in raleigh. Had a march of hundreds being idiots - but raleigh is empty. My mom is in SC, should be heart of the antagonistic audience right? Her town is empty. People have been sewing their own masks, buying medical workers lunches, donating to causes. 

- The federal reserve has been doing everything possible and incredibly dynamic to address anything within its power to ensure this does not only not become a financial crisis, but work to get money into hands of organizations that typically don't interact with the Fed. You also have the fed pushing HARD on the fed government to inject more money to cover the losses, ruining arguments that worry about borrowing now.

- Congress deployed trillions within a month. It isn't enough, and could have been designed better, but in 2008 it took a year to fully respond and it was much less robust. It has taken a while to get money out, but that isn't just a US problem. 

- Tech companies did a pretty remarkable job to protect their workers and sound alarms of the severity before many, and may have saved many in california. Connectivity has been remarkable despite the surge. As a whole, companies have had priorities in right place, and it's fine to argue against those that have not. 

It's not enough and people should demand more because more can be given, a lot more in terms of resources to help people and businesses recover.

obviously, the admin has been garbage and antagonistic to much of this work, but a lot of this country has mobilized very positively.

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41 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

It doesn't make a bit of sense.  To grab power, they are going to shoot their states in the knees.  My favorite part is how the rest of the world went along with this hoax.  I mean how amazing is it that the liberal media can get the entire world to shutdown, including our enemies like Russia and China who would love nothing more than to expose America for falling victim to the greatest hoax of all time.  But apparently instead, they fall in line behind the American liberal media.  You would think with that much power, they could nominate a decent Presidential candidate or win the Senate, right? 

EXACTLY. Ok, lets just say for the sake of being bat-shit crazy this was all a hoax to someone hurt the President.......who was smart enough to organize this all and get China, Italy, and basically the rest of the world together to "organize" this setup? George Soros? Bill Gates? 

Come on...

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8 minutes ago, Tony said:

EXACTLY. Ok, lets just say for the sake of being bat-shit crazy this was all a hoax to someone hurt the President.......who was smart enough to organize this all and get China, Italy, and basically the rest of the world together to "organize" this setup? George Soros? Bill Gates? 

Come on...

It was the anti-barbershop-fa

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12 minutes ago, bmags said:

I want to throw some of the opposite out.

While the federal government has been often terrible here in the places i think it can make the biggest impact (purchasing power, borrowing)

- State and local governments have been doing quite well in addressing the pandemic, including some very ambitious and amazing work to get additional PPE and testing set-up. 

- The American people have answered the call, doing a very good job as a whole of staying inside. We can get upset all we want about the isolated stories, but in the times i've had to drive around - chicago is empty. My dad is in raleigh. Had a march of hundreds being idiots - but raleigh is empty. My mom is in SC, should be heart of the antagonistic audience right? Her town is empty. People have been sewing their own masks, buying medical workers lunches, donating to causes. 

- The federal reserve has been doing everything possible and incredibly dynamic to address anything within its power to ensure this does not only not become a financial crisis, but work to get money into hands of organizations that typically don't interact with the Fed. You also have the fed pushing HARD on the fed government to inject more money to cover the losses, ruining arguments that worry about borrowing now.

- Congress deployed trillions within a month. It isn't enough, and could have been designed better, but in 2008 it took a year to fully respond and it was much less robust. It has taken a while to get money out, but that isn't just a US problem. 

- Tech companies did a pretty remarkable job to protect their workers and sound alarms of the severity before many, and may have saved many in california. Connectivity has been remarkable despite the surge. As a whole, companies have had priorities in right place, and it's fine to argue against those that have not. 

It's not enough and people should demand more because more can be given, a lot more in terms of resources to help people and businesses recover.

obviously, the admin has been garbage and antagonistic to much of this work, but a lot of this country has mobilized very positively.

Counterpoint: we could have done much, much more and chose not to. Millions will suffer and the damage will last for years because of the choices made over the past 8 weeks and the choices we'll make over the coming months. I don't think we should make excuses because we're a little bit quicker than the  woefully inadequate federal response to previous economic disaster that doomed millions to unnecessary suffering. We are still a very long way from doing what we are more than capable of in this country but are simply choosing not to do.

 

 

Edited by StrangeSox
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7 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Counterpoint: we could have done much, much more and chose not to. Millions will suffer and the damage will last for years because of the choices made over the past 8 weeks and the choices we'll make over the coming months. I don't think we should make excuses because we're a little bit quicker than the  woefully inadequate federal response to previous economic disaster that doomed millions to unnecessary suffering. We are still a very long way from doing what we are more than capable of in this country but are simply choosing not to do.

 

 

The europeans will be able to thank the Fed.

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Ok.

Who will the tens of millions of unemployed Americans be able to thank once UI runs out (or their states force them to choose between their health or starvation like Iowa)? Who will the millions of state and local government employees be able to thank when they lose their jobs due to forced austerity measures?

We have the economic capability to help everyone in this country who needs it, right now. We're (or really, Congress and the Executive branches) are choosing not to. They are choosing to let millions of Americans suffer and many of them to die needlessly. We've blown past Great Recession unemployment levels and are heading towards Great Depression levels. If we don't get an adequate federal response, this damage will last for years to come. So far, the message from DC is "eh, we're pretty much done. no more money" beyond some small, ineffectual ideas like a payroll tax cut. Or absurdly damaging ideas like "idk just let states go bankrupt."

 

edit: The Fed response has been adequate but their powers are limited here. We need massive federal programs and the federal government backstopping/funding state and local level measures. I do not see many reasons to be optimistic we will get those things.

 

edit: for reference, at the worst point of the Great Recession, we hit about 10% unemployment. We're already at 20%, and there will likely be several more weeks of 1M+ unemployment filings. The Great Depression topped out at ~25% unemployment. 

Edited by StrangeSox

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6 minutes ago, StrangeSox said:

Ok.

Who will the tens of millions of unemployed Americans be able to thank once UI runs out (or their states force them to choose between their health or starvation like Iowa)? Who will the millions of state and local government employees be able to thank when they lose their jobs due to forced austerity measures?

We have the economic capability to help everyone in this country who needs it, right now. We're (or really, Congress and the Executive branches) are choosing not to. They are choosing to let millions of Americans suffer and many of them to die needlessly. We've blown past Great Recession unemployment levels and are heading towards Great Depression levels. If we don't get an adequate federal response, this damage will last for years to come. So far, the message from DC is "eh, we're pretty much done. no more money" beyond some small, ineffectual ideas like a payroll tax cut. Or absurdly damaging ideas like "idk just let states go bankrupt."

 

edit: The Fed response has been adequate but their powers are limited here. We need massive federal programs and the federal government backstopping/funding state and local level measures. I do not see many reasons to be optimistic we will get those things.

We don't really know what the effects will be yet. America chose to allow UI benefits be its mechanism for now and that may end up being foolish. But more than half on unemployment are making more than they did on their jobs when this money can get out. That is different from the great depression, where it didn't exist until 1935, and it didn't pay people more. And in the great depression, it had a fed that didn't provide enough money.

 

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