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southsider2k5

JR worried about 2021 season

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15 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Operating for two years without any real revenue would be harmful for ownership; I'm not sure how anyone can argue that.

I'm not arguing that. I'd argue instead that less than 1/2 of the team's revenue comes from money earned directly at the ballpark, the team has already removed large expenses including 60% of this year's player payroll, and TV and sponsorship money will still come in if they play these games. 

If you want to tell me that they're going to play all 162 games next year with no fans the whole time and paying full salaries, in that case yes I believe 9 figure losses are possible, but we had a multi-month negotiation this year because that wasn't going to happen. There's no way the losses this season are anywhere close to 9 figures, not when MLB itself got to choose the season length as a rough "Break-even" number. 

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19 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Operating for two years without any real revenue would be harmful for ownership; I'm not sure how anyone can argue that. The Sox have been one of the last teams to cry poor as I imagine their cashflow situation is better than most. Jerry has no debt, the team barely spent money years prior, and the expenses for this year weren't even that much. Jerry is still a leader of the shady owners trying to PR the players to death though. 

That said, stories like this, by Rosenthal, are ridiculous  

 

Maybe Dave Yoakum's not being retained because he didn't fit the direction of the team. Maybe advanced MLB scouts are being let go because you can't actually send a scout to another ball park this year.

Are these baseball changes, or expense changes?  That seems important here.  We have seen a decent amount of turnover in a lot of departments with this team, and if that is  a continuation of that it is completely different than saving a few bucks.

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41 minutes ago, Jose Abreu said:

I have an issue with the money being categorized as a "loss". It was expected revenue that he didn't earn, sure, but it's not as if MLB/NBA owners are guaranteed an annual profit. Everyone loves to bring up how risky investing in a sports team is; well, here's one of the rare examples of actual risk playing out. 

I fully agree with this.  There’s a huge difference between an actual operating loss and an opportunity cost.  Yes, it sucks for the owners not to make their typical $50M to $100M in profit this year, but that doesn’t mean they actually had negative cash flow.  And crying poor about not making huge profits when the entire country is just trying to survive right now is completely fucking gone deaf.

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8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I'm not arguing that. I'd argue instead that less than 1/2 of the team's revenue comes from money earned directly at the ballpark, the team has already removed large expenses including 60% of this year's player payroll, and TV and sponsorship money will still come in if they play these games. 

If you want to tell me that they're going to play all 162 games next year with no fans the whole time and paying full salaries, in that case yes I believe 9 figure losses are possible, but we had a multi-month negotiation this year because that wasn't going to happen. There's no way the losses this season are anywhere close to 9 figures, not when MLB itself got to choose the season length as a rough "Break-even" number. 

Problem is the ownership groups defend each other and there are many groups that are in debt badly with purchases and etc and they are in trouble. 

If next year is in doubt too then there's a lot of teams over extended.

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44 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You don’t think a billion loss would be a gigantic deal?  I’m assuming that’s a typo

To Jerry? I'm sure he sees it as a big deal. But let's put it in perspective. Let's say that he was somehow already broke before COVID, and now he will owe a billion in expenses (obviously ridiculously exaggerated already but ok). Looks like he has to sell his teams. Even if the aggressive estimates in this thread are correct and he would only get 50% of the pre-COVID estimated franchise values, he would walk away, after paying out that billion in expenses, with 1.425 billion dollars. To put that in perspective, a minimum wage worker would have to work 94,496 years to generate that much income. To put that in perspective, experts estimate that 100,000 years ago is when humans first started building our earliest forms of structures.  

I'm being a bit hand wavy about Jerry vs his ownership group here (He obviously wouldn't get the full 1.4 B but I don't think he is on the hook for the full expenses either), but the point is that the absolute impossible bad worst-case scenario for Jerry here is that he has to sell both teams, and still walks away with an honestly incomprehensible amount of money. Again, I'm sure that would be a gigantic deal to Jerry personally, and that's fair and fine. We all experience emotions relative to our own baseline, and I am not going to use relative privation to try and shame him into not being upset in that scenario. But no, from a wider perspective, I don't consider that a gigantic deal, especially in the midst of a joint pandemic/unemployment crisis. I won't feel bad for him, and I definitely will shit on him for complaining to the media about it.

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2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Problem is the ownership groups defend each other and there are many groups that are in debt badly with purchases and etc and they are in trouble. 

If next year is in doubt too then there's a lot of teams over extended.

Again, that's not what Jerry Reinsdorf said. He said nothing about the other teams. He specifically said that his franchise was going to take "losses" that were in the "9 figures". I currently find those numbers to be false and unsupportable. 

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I still don’t understand why there’s no talk of adjustment by these owners. You’re telling me these guys worked their way up to being billionaire owners of sports franchises and now all they can do is just sit on their hands and cry poor? They should be trying to sell every inch of empty stadium space for advertising, creating new team products, set up a beer garden/restaurant outside the stadium during games, etc...I feel like nothing has been attempted what so ever so help the situation. Makes no sense to me

Edited by TheFutureIsNear

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The Bulls missed out on 7 home games. Considering they print money, I have a hard time believing they took a loss. 

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8 minutes ago, Balta1701 said:

I'm not arguing that. I'd argue instead that less than 1/2 of the team's revenue comes from money earned directly at the ballpark, the team has already removed large expenses including 60% of this year's player payroll, and TV and sponsorship money will still come in if they play these games. 

If you want to tell me that they're going to play all 162 games next year with no fans the whole time and paying full salaries, in that case yes I believe 9 figure losses are possible, but we had a multi-month negotiation this year because that wasn't going to happen. There's no way the losses this season are anywhere close to 9 figures, not when MLB itself got to choose the season length as a rough "Break-even" number. 

Problem is the ownership groups defend each other and there are many groups that are in debt badly with purchases and etc and they are in trouble. 

If next year is in doubt too then there's a lot of teams over extended.

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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Problem is the ownership groups defend each other and there are many groups that are in debt badly with purchases and etc and they are in trouble. 

If next year is in doubt too then there's a lot of teams over extended.

Quote

“The two teams and the stadium all have expenses,’’ Reinsdorf said. “None have income. That’s a bad business model. The Bulls played 75% of the season, so the losses aren’t bad. We had a lousy season [22-43], so we weren’t going to be in the playoffs. But the baseball losses are tremendous.’’

Absolutely no part of that quote refers to other teams throughout the sport. You're literally making up things Reinsdorf didn't say because what he did say cannot be supported with reasonable numbers. 

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1 minute ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

Problem is the ownership groups defend each other and there are many groups that are in debt badly with purchases and etc and they are in trouble. 

If next year is in doubt too then there's a lot of teams over extended.

The proof will be in the pudding. If teams are on the brink of financial collapse, they will sell, or take on new partners, or file for bankruptcy. 

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14 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The proof will be in the pudding. If teams are on the brink of financial collapse, they will sell, or take on new partners, or file for bankruptcy. 

They'll just get bailed out like McCourt was by baseball.

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4 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

You don’t think a billion loss would be a gigantic deal?  I’m assuming that’s a typo

Truth be told, it's not a typo, just me blanking like crazy.

Yes, a billion would be massive. 100,000,000 less so considering what the Sox/Bulls likely earn in a regular season.

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1 hour ago, Quin said:

Truth be told, it's not a typo, just me blanking like crazy.

Yes, a billion would be massive. 100,000,000 less so considering what the Sox/Bulls likely earn in a regular season.

Agree with that.

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5 hours ago, Dick Allen said:

The 3 of them combine to make less money than probably 1 minimum guy over the course of a full season.

I do agree there should be some worry for next year. Who knows what that will bring. I doubt anyone, even the most pessimistic would have thought we would be where we are at now three months ago. The CDC said it could be worse in the fall and winter.

And it could be their time with the team was coming to an end anyway, I will agree there, but the fact is, except for the names we know at least fairly well, most of these employees get paid hardly anything. Thinking they are saving money letting them go, puts blowing $13 million on Manny Machado's friends into perspective.

And if the Sox go out and sign a player to a big money move in the off-season, somewhere I'll be thinking - did they really have to take on these other actions, if they are good giving someone a $100M contract.  I should caveat - this view only holds if these were pure expense moves vs. a decision by the organization to move another path or shift spend to other items that they see more valuable, etc.  

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On 7/17/2020 at 11:56 AM, southsider2k5 said:

"40 years of anger" has a ring to it.

40 years of being the owner of the team, and yet no semblance of being beloved by the fan base.  None whatsoever.  Why do you think that is?

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21 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

40 years of being the owner of the team, and yet no semblance of being beloved by the fan base.  None whatsoever.  Why do you think that is?

See there's the difference.  Why spend 40 years angry at the owner? You see this as important.  I see it as a waste of time.

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41 minutes ago, southsider2k5 said:

See there's the difference.  Why spend 40 years angry at the owner? You see this as important.  I see it as a waste of time.

Set my feelings aside.  Again, 40 year anniversary of the guy as the owner of the team we love.  Where’s the outpouring of love and appreciation for the guy?  Where is it?

Bill Veeck, with far fewer years as owner even through two stints as owner, is far more beloved by the fan base than this owner.  Why is that?  

How can one spend four decades in this kind of position and yet have near-to-zero in terms of fan love?

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3 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

Set my feelings aside.  Again, 40 year anniversary of the guy as the owner of the team we love.  Where’s the outpouring of love and appreciation for the guy?  Where is it?

Bill Veeck, with far fewer years as owner even through two stints as owner, is far more beloved by the fan base than this owner.  Why is that?  

How can one spend four decades in this kind of position and yet have near-to-zero in terms of fan love?

But it’s just sports. I’ve enjoyed watching the White Sox the last 25 years or so.  Most of the teams from 2000 until now have had really good teams in paper.  I enjoyed watching most of the seasons.  I enjoyed his product.  
 

Why don’t I love him?  Because that seems really weird, to care enough about sports to idolize or demonize an owner.  Or to blame front offices and front office personnel. Seems so weird to me, caring that much.  
 

I think he’s been a pretty good owner, seems like a nice guy and I REALLY respect his loyalty to employees.   

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23 minutes ago, Thad Bosley said:

Set my feelings aside.  Again, 40 year anniversary of the guy as the owner of the team we love.  Where’s the outpouring of love and appreciation for the guy?  Where is it?

Bill Veeck, with far fewer years as owner even through two stints as owner, is far more beloved by the fan base than this owner.  Why is that?  

How can one spend four decades in this kind of position and yet have near-to-zero in terms of fan love?

Why do you spend any time at all caring about people liking billionaires? 

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10 hours ago, southsider2k5 said:

See there's the difference.  Why spend 40 years angry at the owner? You see this as important.  I see it as a waste of time.

The team looks like it could be good so Sox fans being Sox fans have to complain about something.  They can't complain about the people that put the team together right now so it's back to complaining about the owners. If the team starts out slow it will revert back to evil incarnate and Hahn.

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9 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

Set my feelings aside.  Again, 40 year anniversary of the guy as the owner of the team we love.  Where’s the outpouring of love and appreciation for the guy?  Where is it?

Bill Veeck, with far fewer years as owner even through two stints as owner, is far more beloved by the fan base than this owner.  Why is that?  

How can one spend four decades in this kind of position and yet have near-to-zero in terms of fan love?

People loved veeck because he played Eddie gaedel  and had an ash tray in his wooden leg. He was a great character for which he was loved.

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10 hours ago, Thad Bosley said:

Set my feelings aside.  Again, 40 year anniversary of the guy as the owner of the team we love.  Where’s the outpouring of love and appreciation for the guy?  Where is it?

Bill Veeck, with far fewer years as owner even through two stints as owner, is far more beloved by the fan base than this owner.  Why is that?  

How can one spend four decades in this kind of position and yet have near-to-zero in terms of fan love?

I would not say there is zero love for the man. There are times when he shows his generosity, and comes across as likable. 

Fans loved Veeck even if they when didn't love his teams. He came across as someone who understood how the average fan felt. I don't think Reinsdorf has ever understood White Sox fans. Then came the 1994 strike and the 1997 White Flag Trade. I have vivid memories of the late 90s. That was not a fun time to be a Sox fan.

Reinsdorf has had some success and had done some good things. But that 40-year thing is a drawback. Only five playoff appearances in that time. Even the Cubs have more playoff appearances in that time.

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