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NFL Thread 2020-2021

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5 minutes ago, whitesoxfan99 said:

This is a bad team that has been incredibly lucky all year long.  Being dominated again tonight but in it because of a couple of big plays.  

With a defense this good - you can't call them a bad team. Defense has missed opportunities to be transcending but it is just beyond pathetic how bad this offense is. Coaching, bad QB play, etc.  

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5 minutes ago, fathom said:

How embarrassing for Griese to blame Miller for not catching that

Yup, Foles overthrew him and that idiot blames the WR.

 

Pace and Nagy have to be fired, I'm having flashbacks of the Jim Miller, John Shoop era

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Fire Nagy tomorrow and make Pagano head coach rest of year 

Edited by Soxfest
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I really hope Foles injury isn't bad. He is an awful QB (at least starter), but a good dude.  I also hope Mitch's injury is not as bad as we think and he can get to work immediately on getting ready to be the starter.  Shock us and win out with Mitch and have an inprobable run with Lazor calling plays.  Probably have a better shot at winning the lottery but I legitimately believe this team has been and would have been better with Mitch running the show (no doubt in my mind).  

Will be curious to see what the reports are on that shoulder.  

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15 minutes ago, Soxfest said:

Fire Nagy tomorrow and make Pagano head coach rest of year 

Why? Pagano is trash. And why are we blaming Nagy this week?

 

This team has a talent deficit. I don't care if they were running the I-Form all game long, they would still lose. They don't have players on the offensive side of the ball. It begins with the line and it has been ignored or mis evaluated since Cutler was yelling at his OLineman. 

 

Gotta stop the Chicago mentality of trying to find a scapegoat. Pace has been terrible with asset management. That is at the top of the list for a GM. 

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So let me get this straight. Some fans want to fire Matt Nagy with his win percentage being the best since Lovie Smith? Why not pick tackles and a quarterback high in the draft since they finally have a first round pick and see what happens since fans believe the Bears have an “elite” defense? Wouldn’t it set them back to hire another head coach and GM in terms of roster turnover and yet another scheme? I’d give Pace and Nagy one more year.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/chi/coaches.htm

Edited by The Beast
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At what point does the fire sale start?

It seems apparent that this defense [by itself] cannot win a super bowl. So why not tank, trade everything away, fire everybody from the GM down, and hit the reset button?

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Just now, Two-Gun Pete said:

At what point does the fire sale start?

It seems apparent that this defense [by itself] cannot win a super bowl. So why not tank, trade everything away, fire everybody from the GM down, and hit the reset button?

Past the NFL trade deadline, so not much to do there.  The hard part I have with Pace is, yeah, he missed on Trubisky - we all know it and there are some other misses (including spending the money on Quinn vs. focusing on the oline).  But he has drafted Whitehair and Daniels (Both higher end investments) + signed Massie via free agency and given extensions to guys like Long. So he has invested in the position but offensively he has definitely had a number of misses. 

But on the defensive side of the ball - he has had some massive hits (don't get me wrong - he's had his misses; Floyd never ended up becoming the edge rusher we had hoped, but he was always an underrated linebacker and is having a great season in LA this year) and ultimately has built a pretty darn good defense.  And despite Kmet not emerging (at least not yet - also no TE has really done anything this year), this years draft still looks pretty good.  He also invested much needed money into facilities and had clout and vision to do that and in my opinion has been pretty honest when it came to admitting his mistakes (was not shy to cut his guys).  

His record - obviously poor - but he inherited about as crappy of a set-up as possible and instilled Fox, whos shifted the culture and Nagy, who as a HC has done a decent job with culture, etc.  He just is a complete turd offensively (I'm sure he has things he's good at - just not owning the whole thing when it comes to offense design).  I actually seriously wonder - how much of the offensive failure is on Pace (including some of his higher profile misses like Dion Simms, or Jimmy Graham (too much money - clearly was a need) or even on the oline (never quite figuring it out - they've used finesse guys after Fox had built a power running scheme - but the finesse scheme/oline thing was very much a Nagy concept...probably too focused on getting cute vs. reality).  

I really wonder - how much did Pace fail because Nagy really didn't know what he want / wasn't able to really provide effective clarity around what he needed. GM's job is to trust coach to some extent and work with them on desired scheme, etc.  I think Monty was a guy Nagy wanted and Nagy has always raved about him.  I am probably grasping at straws - I just really hate having to completely start over again because I think Pace has some good qualities. To be frank - Nagy does too - but running an offense isn't one of them and well that is a damning failure.  Will be really interesting to see what this team does after the bye week.  I legit think they need a spark and maybe Mitch can do that. I do think the offense has always liked him and you've seen guys like Cohen almost hint that they need Mitch back (and we know Zach Miller has been saying for weeks more Mitch).  

Reality is nothing is saving this offense - it just sucks.  I legit don't understand why as a Bears fan I've literally never been able to see any offense. I literally can think of one years a kid with Curtis Conway and Jeff Graham, who put it all together for 1 season and than there was a year with Cutler and Martz where the offense was clicking right before Jay hurt himself tackling someone in a blowout win against the Chargers (huge win - followed up by the Caleb Hanie experience).  You had the Trestman era where the offensive talent was legit (Marty B, Alshon, BMarshall) but personalities were insane and Trestman couldn't handle it...but that is basically it.  Outside of that - pure & utter crap.  

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16 minutes ago, Chisoxfn said:

Past the NFL trade deadline, so not much to do there.  The hard part I have with Pace is, yeah, he missed on Trubisky - we all know it and there are some other misses (including spending the money on Quinn vs. focusing on the oline).  But he has drafted Whitehair and Daniels (Both higher end investments) + signed Massie via free agency and given extensions to guys like Long. So he has invested in the position but offensively he has definitely had a number of misses. 

But on the defensive side of the ball - he has had some massive hits (don't get me wrong - he's had his misses; Floyd never ended up becoming the edge rusher we had hoped, but he was always an underrated linebacker and is having a great season in LA this year) and ultimately has built a pretty darn good defense.  And despite Kmet not emerging (at least not yet - also no TE has really done anything this year), this years draft still looks pretty good.  He also invested much needed money into facilities and had clout and vision to do that and in my opinion has been pretty honest when it came to admitting his mistakes (was not shy to cut his guys).  

His record - obviously poor - but he inherited about as crappy of a set-up as possible and instilled Fox, whos shifted the culture and Nagy, who as a HC has done a decent job with culture, etc.  He just is a complete turd offensively (I'm sure he has things he's good at - just not owning the whole thing when it comes to offense design).  I actually seriously wonder - how much of the offensive failure is on Pace (including some of his higher profile misses like Dion Simms, or Jimmy Graham (too much money - clearly was a need) or even on the oline (never quite figuring it out - they've used finesse guys after Fox had built a power running scheme - but the finesse scheme/oline thing was very much a Nagy concept...probably too focused on getting cute vs. reality).  

I really wonder - how much did Pace fail because Nagy really didn't know what he want / wasn't able to really provide effective clarity around what he needed. GM's job is to trust coach to some extent and work with them on desired scheme, etc.  I think Monty was a guy Nagy wanted and Nagy has always raved about him.  I am probably grasping at straws - I just really hate having to completely start over again because I think Pace has some good qualities. To be frank - Nagy does too - but running an offense isn't one of them and well that is a damning failure.  Will be really interesting to see what this team does after the bye week.  I legit think they need a spark and maybe Mitch can do that. I do think the offense has always liked him and you've seen guys like Cohen almost hint that they need Mitch back (and we know Zach Miller has been saying for weeks more Mitch).  

Reality is nothing is saving this offense - it just sucks.  I legit don't understand why as a Bears fan I've literally never been able to see any offense. I literally can think of one years a kid with Curtis Conway and Jeff Graham, who put it all together for 1 season and than there was a year with Cutler and Martz where the offense was clicking right before Jay hurt himself tackling someone in a blowout win against the Chargers (huge win - followed up by the Caleb Hanie experience).  You had the Trestman era where the offensive talent was legit (Marty B, Alshon, BMarshall) but personalities were insane and Trestman couldn't handle it...but that is basically it.  Outside of that - pure & utter crap.  

For every mistake Pace has made, him later having to paper over his mistakes with subsequent acquisitions takes away from other building that could have been done elsewhere in the roster.

You mentioned Trubisky, which is evident. But having to later squander money on Foles means that he had less cap space to spend on the O-Line, or on other needs. Or Floyd failing meant that he later spent on Quin. Or stupidly drafting White meant that he later had to spend on Robinson. Or moronically overdrafting Shaheen meant that he later had to buy the desiccated remains of Jimmy Graham. 

 

That said, and while I appreciate the thoughtfulness of your post, IMO, the only cogent questions one has to ask are:

1. Can this roster, as currently comprised, win the Super Bowl?

2. Based on his cavalcade of sucktitude, can THIS GM make the right moves to get this team to the Super Bowl?

 

To me, the answer to both questions is, "no." So, the only option is this offseason, Mack, Smith, Hicks, Goldman, Jackson, Fuller, Quin, Cohen, Whitehair, Foles, and anything else you can think of that has value, should probably be traded for picks. Then, fire everyone in the FO and the overstaffed coaching staff, and re-start.

Better to rip off the band-ade NOW and get the rebuild started, than to watch this defense fail in this and future years because the rest of the team sucks. Because it is clear that this team will not win anything as currently made up. Honestly, what's the alternative? Who's gonna be the QB next season? Why let this defense get old and injured, when there's no prayer of this team competing?

That's why I favor starting the fire-sale, and firing everyone.

Edited by Two-Gun Pete

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I really can't fathom how much guaranteed money the Bears have tied to Foles too ($24M guaranteed; I think $16M still on hook for).  That actually was one of Pace's worse moves - just given how bad that contract wise.  If Foles was any good - he opts out and Bears paid him (not that anyone would have complained about that). IF he wasn't very good...you had $8M/yr tied to him which as far as I'm concerned is too much for a backup QB.  

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On 11/8/2020 at 1:20 PM, Chisoxfn said:

John Fox probably would have been better than Nagy for the team they built. The defense would have been fine and at least the offense could run the ball under Fox. 

Only if John Fox could block.  I can't see how anyone not from Minnesota or Chicago could watch this exercise in boredom, unless they had a bet going on it.  I'm sorta ashamed that I watched it.  You're all right about Trubisky running for his life behind this OL is a better fit than Foles stumbling around until he's planted.  Why do we care?

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6 hours ago, MexSoxFan#1 said:

I swear, I have to be a masochist to be a fan of this garbage franchise.

I should've just stuck with the Dolphins. Dan Marino was my favorite QB growing up and I always had a soft spot for the Phins until my pops knocked that out of me. :lol:

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lose baby lose. Give the next GM the best possible pick and pay Joe Brady whatever he wants (wishful thinking for this clown franchise)

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22 minutes ago, TheTruth05 said:

lose baby lose. Give the next GM the best possible pick and pay Joe Brady whatever he wants (wishful thinking for this clown franchise)

5-11 to 7-9, the classic bears range of bad but not quite bad enough.

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1 hour ago, bmags said:

5-11 to 7-9, the classic bears range of bad but not quite bad enough.

Yup. That's why there has to be a fire sale, IMO. The defense [by itself] isn't good enough to win the Super Bowl. OTOH, the defense [by itself] is TOO GOOD to be able to draft the next franchise QB. So, trade away Mack, Hicks, Goldman, Smith, Trevathan, Fuller, Jackson, Johnson, and let Robinson walk this offseason.

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1 hour ago, SoxAce said:

I should've just stuck with the Dolphins. Dan Marino was my favorite QB growing up and I always had a soft spot for the Phins until my pops knocked that out of me. :lol:

Family were Chicago Cardinal Fans. Was a Packer and Steelers fan growing up, My youngest brother was a Dolphins / Marino fan, the middle brother a Dallas Cowboys fan. Loved going to Packer games at Milwaukee County Stadium, and also Steelers games including the final Steelers game at Three River Stadium, the last NFL game I watched or attended.

Worked for the Bidwell family at Sportsman's Park. Don't follow the NFL anymore, though have a smile whenever I hear the Bears have lost. :D

University of Chicago - THEE Monsters of the Midway.

Chicago Cardinals - Chicago's Original Football Team, named for the color of the hand-me-down uniforms they obtained from the University of Chicago.

 

item_27832_1.jpg

 

"All football comes through Stagg"

-Knute Rockne on All Time Great Amos Alonzo Stagg (Basketball and College Football HOF Member), the leader in college football wins until Coach Paul Bear Bryant's final season ((Roll Tide!).

1905 Western Conference, precursor to the Big "Ten" (sic), College Football National Champions and True Monsters of the Midway. (Coach Stagg in suit far right).

1905_University_of_Chicago_Maroons_Footb

Aerial-View_2013_Guidebook_BI_C1_2.jpg

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Last year took most of the wind out of my sails of being a big bears fan, so this year isn't that painful. Still would like to watch football, but this is just so many years of the same crap, it seems almost impossible.

I really thought I couldn't see a worse bears offense than the Krenzel bears, but then John Fox came along, and then Matt Nagy came along. Considering the offensive evolution, it is frankly incredible that Nagy and Pace somehow put together an offense this bad. Any offensive scheme, with any offensive talent, should be able to get more points the last few weeks against the defenses they played. It is the qb, but it's not just the qb. It is the coach, but it's not just the coach. It is the talent, but it's not just the talent. It is an org that somehow, even when they put every emphasis on fixing it, always ends up in the same place. Just incompetence.

You know they are an incompetent org, because they keep getting swayed by smooth talking interviews. You have Bruce Arians in hand, you go with Trestman. You have chris ballard in hand, you go with Pace. When you know nothing about football, you constantly end up getting swayed by people that seem the most likeable and biggest salesman.

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I had such little interest in this game that I checked the score the old fashioned way: I looked in the morning newspaper. Wasn't surprised. Why should I have been? Wasn't disappointed because  I had no expectations to begin with.

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