cabiness42 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) It's really unfortunate because there are very real and legitimate cases of racism. but, with Jesse Jackson and Michael Pfleger it has become the boy who cried wolf. You mean like the President inviting the 2014 US champs to the White House but none of the previous five? Edited February 11, 2015 by HickoryHuskers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorthSideSox72 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 QUOTE (HickoryHuskers @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 03:47 PM) You mean like the President inviting the 2014 US champs to the White House but none of the previous six? When did a Chicago team last win? When do people remember a team with this much hype? I think it would actually be cool if the US winner got invited every year though, I agree. Anyway, probably I should just say now... this is getting close to politics. So let's do what we can do avoid going full-Buster if we can. Not directed at you specifically, just a feeling on where this MIGHT go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fathom Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 Dan Hayes @CSNHayes Kenny Williams was fired up on #JRW. He's writing an op-Ed for tomorrow's Trib. #WhiteSox Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 03:46 PM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/chi-j...ory.html#page=1 Watch the Pfleger video in the thumbnails. God he just looks like a creep. How does anyone listen to that nonsense with a straight face? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 03:58 PM) God he just looks like a creep. How does anyone listen to that nonsense with a straight face? I'm trying to find a full video, but both Jackson and Pfleger field questions and then the nonsense really begins Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 The boundary map Jackie Robinson West submitted to Little League officials after an investigation into possible rules violations began included portions annexed from three other leagues without their permission, Little League International CEO Stephen Keener said Wednesday. The other Little League organizations knew that Jackie Robinson West officials had gerrymandered a map to recruit ineligible players but kept quiet because they didn't want to cause trouble, Keener said. The map submitted by Jackie Robinson West was "redrawn and backdated and signed to make it appear it had been the map used during the entire" tournament, Keener said. He said officials with the neighboring leagues said nothing to Little League authorities about the falsified map until Jan. 31, when Little League International officials met with them privately in Chicago. "They didn't want to rock the boat," Keener said. "It was a great story. They were happy for the kids." After that meeting, Little League International decided to strip Jackie Robinson West of its national title. "The other Little League organizations knew that Jackie Robinson West officials had gerrymandered a map to recruit ineligible players, but kept quiet because they 'didn't want to rock the boat,' Keener said." Well they didn't 'rock the boat,' they sank... Keener said at least two members of the Jackie Robinson team lived outside appropriate boundaries. "Certainly not the whole team," he said. He said team officials and Michael Kelley, administrator of the Little League district that includes Jackie Robinson West, at some point met with officials with the three neighboring leagues in an effort to get them to sign off on the map. The other leagues did not agree to do so, Keener said. "Those are clearly violations of regulations of Little League … and certainly a clear violation of the spirit of how our organization is run," he said. Kelley denied in a December interview with the Tribune that the team changed boundaries to gather the best players. "It's totally nonsense," he said then. "There's always someone complaining and crying foul about something. Let the kids play ball." Kelley, who has been suspended from his role as district administrator, could not be reached Wednesday for comment. Keener called revocation of the national championship title "painful and troubling," but necessary. "Whether it's sport at the highest level — of MLB or the NFL — right down to the grass-roots level, adherence and conformity to rules and regulations are what make our programs possible," he said. So they cheated but then made it worse by trying to cover their tracks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jenksismyhero Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/b...0211-story.html One of the complainers is a white dude. Pretty gutsy to have his picture taken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 QUOTE (Jenksismyb**** @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 04:05 PM) http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/b...0211-story.html One of the complainers is a white dude. Pretty gutsy to have his picture taken. Eh, nowadays you can't hide with social media. His face would have gone up on Twitter or Facebook anyways Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 11, 2015 Share Posted February 11, 2015 (edited) Why doesn't one or all of the adults responsible step up to the plate, accept responsibility, take the heat off the kids, and show the kids what you do when you screw up. Edited February 11, 2015 by Dick Allen Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 01:35 PM) Feel sorry or the district team, the sectional team, the state team, and the regaionl team they beat. JRW has been doing this for years and will continue to do so. Do you honestly think that they're the only team that does this though?? I'd be willing to bet that more teams do it than not yet we sure won't be seeing the Vegas team or any of the other teams this thoroughly investigated. I'm soo sure that the international teams are faithfully practicing all that boundary stuff too... These kids were all from the same general area just like the majority of the teams are and that's good enough for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StrangeSox Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 05:05 PM) Why doesn't one or all of the adults responsible step up to the plate, accept responsibility, take the heat off the kids, and show the kids what you do when you screw up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 06:52 PM) Do you honestly think that they're the only team that does this though?? I'd be willing to bet that more teams do it than not yet we sure won't be seeing the Vegas team or any of the other teams this thoroughly investigated. I'm soo sure that the international teams are faithfully practicing all that boundary stuff too... These kids were all from the same general area just like the majority of the teams are and that's good enough for me. Who cares if other teams cheat. You don't. If you get caught cheating then you pay the consequences. Its not like these kids dont have other alternatives for competing. The coach also runs the West Englewood Tigers which most of these kids play on as well. If they kept playing as the West Englewood Tigers Travel team or the White Sox ACE team then boundaries don't matter. Travel teams play without boundaries, have tryouts, and play ultra competitive baseball. They could go to cooperstown or ripken or one of the other elite tournaments around the US. This however is the Little League tournament which has specific requirements about where you live. In fact they have other requirements like the fact that no more that 8 of the kids can be 12. Ask the Metro Atlanta team who as recently as this August were stripped of their state championship by Little League for having 12 not 8 kids that were 12. In 1992, Zamboanga (Philippines) City Little League was disqualified, as was Rolando Paulino Little League from Bronx, N.Y., in 2001 all lost their titles due to infractions. In the end it was parents and officials who knew. They did this to create a super team. It worked until they were caught. Sucks for the kids. But it also sucks for the teams who did it the right way that were eliminated by this team as well. Edited February 12, 2015 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 07:52 PM) Do you honestly think that they're the only team that does this though?? I'd be willing to bet that more teams do it than not yet we sure won't be seeing the Vegas team or any of the other teams this thoroughly investigated. I'm soo sure that the international teams are faithfully practicing all that boundary stuff too... These kids were all from the same general area just like the majority of the teams are and that's good enough for me. I'd be willing to bet that you'd lose that bet. but its cool that youre ok with cheating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 QUOTE (zenryan @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 09:16 PM) I'd be willing to bet that you'd lose that bet. but its cool that youre ok with cheating. It's not so cut and dry. The kids themselves did not cheat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 (edited) QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 10:57 PM) It's not so cut and dry. The kids themselves did not cheat. They were not eligible to play for that team. They didn't live in the area. How hard is this to understand. Edited February 12, 2015 by southsideirish71 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zenryan Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 11:57 PM) It's not so cut and dry. The kids themselves did not cheat. they didnt have a say in it so I wont blame them but lets not act they didnt know they werent within the rules. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SleepyWhiteSox Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 QUOTE (zenryan @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 11:53 PM) they didnt have a say in it so I wont blame them but lets not act they didnt know they werent within the rules. Are you saying that these 10-11-12 year old boys were fully aware of the intricacies of the little league boundary line rules and understood they were violating them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
southsideirish71 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Feb 12, 2015 -> 12:05 AM) Are you saying that these 10-11-12 year old boys were fully aware of the intricacies of the little league boundary line rules and understood they were violating them? The coach however did, the league officials did, and the parents who drove the kids in from the burbs probably did as well. The kids were not eligible to play as a team. So it doesn't matter if the kids had knowledge, they shouldn't of been there. The kids don't sign themselves up for the team. They are children, their parents and adults are the responsible ones who screwed this up. These boundaries exist to keep it fair. To balance talent as much as possible. To keep it fair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 QUOTE (raBBit @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 04:13 PM) EP's program is largely white kids. I'm not sure where the misinformation is coming that these allegations came from a black team. I am not surprised one bit that EPA is the program that shed light on it. EPAA, his league is 50% black if not more. BTW he is married to a black woman so I am not certain that he could be called a racist toward the black community nor could EPAA The adjoining leagues who confirmed the mapping are all black as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chisoxfn Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 QUOTE (southsideirish71 @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 09:36 PM) They were not eligible to play for that team. They didn't live in the area. How hard is this to understand. My view is this...the players accomplishments and what they did on the field happened and the players should feel proud about what they did. They weren't aware of the rules, etc, and the view to me is they played their guts out and earned what they did. However, the rules are the rules and everyone needs to play by the rules. The parents need to step up, take blame and responsibility, and show the kids how adults handle things, but nobody should be blaming these kids or taking anything away from their actual performances on the field. The wins were forfeited but in their eyes they know what they did and should feel proud of what they did on the field, imo, but should also learn a valuable lesson as to why you shouldn't cut corners and how you should handle yourself if you do. Instead it seem like too many are blaming everyone else instead of the parents and the league which was responsible for this mess and throwing out all kinds of excuses, etc, which makes the kids actually feel like they were robbed of something, which they weren't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
clyons Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Mark Mulder chimes in: http://chicago.suntimes.com/baseball/7/71/...ating-long-time Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kyyle23 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 I wish one of those reporters put Pfleger and Jackson feet in the fire and would have asked "What do you say about the redrawn and backdated map that was handed in after the tournament, and the meeting that JRW had with the other little league reps where they asked them to sign off on the backdated map(but refused to do so)?" i was disappointed in the lack of pointed questions towards those two. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 Wasn't KW supposed to issue a statement about the situation sometime this week? What happened? Perhaps the team is gathering more evidence...and there might be some legal repercussions as well, vis a vis the White Sox, the RBI program, etc. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dick Allen Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 12, 2015 -> 10:21 AM) My view is this...the players accomplishments and what they did on the field happened and the players should feel proud about what they did. They weren't aware of the rules, etc, and the view to me is they played their guts out and earned what they did. However, the rules are the rules and everyone needs to play by the rules. The parents need to step up, take blame and responsibility, and show the kids how adults handle things, but nobody should be blaming these kids or taking anything away from their actual performances on the field. The wins were forfeited but in their eyes they know what they did and should feel proud of what they did on the field, imo, but should also learn a valuable lesson as to why you shouldn't cut corners and how you should handle yourself if you do. Instead it seem like too many are blaming everyone else instead of the parents and the league which was responsible for this mess and throwing out all kinds of excuses, etc, which makes the kids actually feel like they were robbed of something, which they weren't. I agree with this, that is why it is so deplorable the adults responsible for the cheating have run and hid. Horrible examples. Wouldn't be surprised if more stuff gets uncovered. Step up and show your faces coaches and league adminstrators. Tell everyone how you screwed up and not the kids, and tell all of the others who are claiming racism or something else, you did wrong and the punishment is justified. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harry Chappas Posted February 12, 2015 Share Posted February 12, 2015 QUOTE (SleepyWhiteSox @ Feb 11, 2015 -> 10:57 PM) It's not so cut and dry. The kids themselves did not cheat. The purpose of LLB is a neighborhood league with neighborhood teams. The kids on true LLB teams play in a league and know one anther. There were kids on this team that never played a single game for JRW little league except for the state tourneys. I am not naive to think every team bends these rules but as Mark Mulder from South Holland pointed out, JRW has been doing this for years, finally some folks said enough is enough. This was not one or two kids a majority of that team lived outside her boundary and the city of Chicago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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