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On 1/7/2020 at 4:10 PM, Soxbadger said:

 

Many times Ive thought that TLJ will age the best of the trilogy. I feel that people were upset because they thought that Johnson messed up some great Abrams storyline. After the last movie I think people are starting to realize that Abrams never really had some new intuitive idea and that Johnson moved the story in a more interesting fashion.

 

 

This post doesnt even make sense. Abrams had every opportunity to go in any direction he wanted  as he was responsible for 2 of the 3 movies. Nothing Johnson did in 8 handcuffed Abrams at all.

 

 

I think the problem is that Disney put too much faith into directors. The Marvel movies worked, so Disney thought they could do a similar formula. Marvel movies can do more, because comic book fans are used to bad things happening to a character and then a different version/variant etc happens and that character is back. Its really hard to do a huge swerve with Star Wars because these stories are presumably the final chapter. I also think the backlash to TLJ caused them to take a much more conservative route with the final episode.

In the future when they can create their own universe they wont have to do as much fan service. 

You're trying to tell me you watched The Last Jedi and couldn't see that Rian Johnson took many of the characters and storylines in a different direction than Abrams was tracking them for in The Force Awakens??? Did you miss the entire "You're nobody Rey. Anyone can be a Jedi" storyline of the entire movie?

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12 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

You're trying to tell me you watched The Last Jedi and couldn't see that Rian Johnson took many of the characters and storylines in a different direction than Abrams was tracking them for in The Force Awakens??? Did you miss the entire "You're nobody Rey. Anyone can be a Jedi" storyline of the entire movie?

And Abrams was easily able to completely change the direction in the 3rd film so that she was Palpatine's granddaughter.

So again, nothing Rian Johnson did was so damning to Abram's vision. The thing that was damning to Abram's vision, was Abram's vision. Listen to the interviews from Abrams, they make no sense. Rey and Kylo's kiss was like brother/sister. Finn was trying to tell Rey that he was force sensitive. Abram's should have just said nothing and let the fans create more exciting story lines from the unanswered questions. 

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1 hour ago, Soxbadger said:

And Abrams was easily able to completely change the direction in the 3rd film so that she was Palpatine's granddaughter.

So again, nothing Rian Johnson did was so damning to Abram's vision. The thing that was damning to Abram's vision, was Abram's vision. Listen to the interviews from Abrams, they make no sense. Rey and Kylo's kiss was like brother/sister. Finn was trying to tell Rey that he was force sensitive. Abram's should have just said nothing and let the fans create more exciting story lines from the unanswered questions. 

You honestly think Palpatine coming back was Abram's plan all along? I don't even know if Rey being related to a Palpatine was even something that would have ever occured. I'm sure Abrams didn't plan to kill Snoke in the 2nd movie, and maybe not even Luke.

I'm shocked you think Abrams would have done the 2nd movie the exact same way that Rian Johnson did the second movie, to arrive at the storylines of the 3rd movie.

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Does Rey and Kylo's "kind of like siblings" kiss annoy you just as much as Luke and Leia's ACTUAL SIBLINGS kiss?

I totally agree that Rey and Kylo's was absolutely stupid and didn't fit at all, given there was ZERO romantic tension between them ever, but despite there being ACTUAL romantic tension between Luke and Leia, the fact of the matter is still that they are related and that should be even weirder for different reasons.

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16 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

You honestly think Palpatine coming back was Abram's plan all along? I don't even know if Rey being related to a Palpatine was even something that would have ever occured. I'm sure Abrams didn't plan to kill Snoke in the 2nd movie, and maybe not even Luke.

I'm shocked you think Abrams would have done the 2nd movie the exact same way that Rian Johnson did the second movie, to arrive at the storylines of the 3rd movie.

Who said Abrams would do the 2nd movie the same? The argument is whether Abrams could tell the story he wanted in 9, and the answer is yes. Killing snoke could have been explained as that was merely a snoke clone not the real one, which is why they were able to kill him so easily. Luke vanished, he easily could have been brought back. I mean he brought back Palpatine, bringing back Luke/Snoke were much easier.

Abrams couldnt get away from fan service and trying to give everyone everything they wanted. After 40 years I guess maybe I had higher hopes than it just being about Palpatine again, because that kind of destroys the Darth Vader arc.

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8 hours ago, soxfan2014 said:

Hot take: prequel trilogy > Disney trilogy. Episode 1 was obviously garbage but so were 8 and 9.

Episode 1 was not garbage.

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5 hours ago, Soxbadger said:

Who said Abrams would do the 2nd movie the same? The argument is whether Abrams could tell the story he wanted in 9, and the answer is yes. Killing snoke could have been explained as that was merely a snoke clone not the real one, which is why they were able to kill him so easily. Luke vanished, he easily could have been brought back. I mean he brought back Palpatine, bringing back Luke/Snoke were much easier.

Abrams couldnt get away from fan service and trying to give everyone everything they wanted. After 40 years I guess maybe I had higher hopes than it just being about Palpatine again, because that kind of destroys the Darth Vader arc.

You don't think the events of the 2nd movie has any influence on what Abrams did the for 3rd movie?

Then yes, agree to disagree that this trilogy had a cohesive, singular voice throughout the storyline of the 3 movies.

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44 minutes ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

You don't think the events of the 2nd movie has any influence on what Abrams did the for 3rd movie?

Then yes, agree to disagree that this trilogy had a cohesive, singular voice throughout the storyline of the 3 movies.

No, Im saying dont blame Johnson for Abrams failures.

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53 minutes ago, Soxbadger said:

No, Im saying dont blame Johnson for Abrams failures.

And I'm saying this trilogy would have been better with just 1 of them doing all 3 movies, and based on where the first one could have gone, I liked where Abrams was going. But we don't know where Rian Johnson would have taken his own trilogy since he was inserted in to someone else's world.

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Episode 7 was strictly made for fan service to invoke those same feelings as the late 70's/early 80's.

It succeeded from that standpoint, but wasn't an advance of the story/plot...and makes almost no sense now in terms of scale/scope compared to the final movie overdoing almost everything.

Rogue One still stands out as the best in this generation of films, by far.

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2 hours ago, ChiliIrishHammock24 said:

And I'm saying this trilogy would have been better with just 1 of them doing all 3 movies, and based on where the first one could have gone, I liked where Abrams was going. But we don't know where Rian Johnson would have taken his own trilogy since he was inserted in to someone else's world.

The first movie was a new hope, what could abrams have done, reshot Empire and have the bad guy be the good guys father...

The hard sell of Rey being a nobody is what made the Palpatine twist even marginally tolerable. Had they revealed that in 8, you may as well just have rewatched the original 3.

Well never known what Johnson thought, but Kylo staying bad and Rey being a nobody who rises up was the more interesting story arc.

We already had these storylines:

Good guy turns bad due to manipulation/ emotional circumstances.

Bad guy is good guys relative.

Bad guy finds his good again and helps beat the ultimate villain.

I dont dislike any of the movies, even the prequels, but too much of the last 3 were the just repeat storylines.

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A New Hope - 9

The Empire Strikes Back - 11 (Spinal Tap rating system)

Return of the Jedi - 7

The Phantom Menace - 3 (John Williams score bumps it from a 1 to 3)

Attack of the Clones - 1 (seriously a ridiculously bad movie)

Revenge of the Sith - 5 (gets too much credit for not being as bad as the other PT movies. Not actually a good movie though. It's a mess for many reasons)

The Force Awakens - 5 (Fuck you Kathleen Kennedy)

The Last Jedi - 3 (Fuck you Rian Johnson. Fantastic production though)

Rise of Skywalker - tbd (Fuck you Disney)

 

 

Rogue One - 7 

Solo - 5 (a well made, cookie cutter heist movie that wasn't clever in any way)

The Mandalorian - 7 (It's fun, well made and a step in the right direction, but there isn't much there story wise and a couple of the episodes are just dumb)

 

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I love the vibe of this show so much.  I have of course have seen the movies hit/miss in different ways, but this makes me very curious about the ventures I've never seen - (i.e. The Clone Wars, etc.).  

 

 

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This series has been the best Star Wars produced since the original movies. 

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2 hours ago, ShoeLessRob said:

This series has been the best Star Wars produced since the original movies. 

I've said the same thing. Best thing since Disney took over.

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On 10/31/2020 at 8:19 AM, ShoeLessRob said:

This series has been the best Star Wars produced since the original movies. 

Rogue One was excellent. My only complaint is that it needed more Vader. 

Edited by Jack Parkman
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14 minutes ago, Jack Parkman said:

Rogue One was excellent. My only complaint is that it needed more Vader. 

I’ll agree to that. I would of liked a movie about Vader hunting down the remaining Jedi who survived the purge. 

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Season 2 - digging it so far, hoping next chapter is the Boat chapter we saw in the trailer. 

One question that has been bugging me, everyone seems to know of Mandalorians, keeping their word, what they look like, helmets remaining on...etc. but Luke Skywalker is alive and this is post ROTJ so the Jedi were not defeated (ala Order 66/ROTS) so why does nobody seem to have heard of them? 

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1 hour ago, MEANS said:

Season 2 - digging it so far, hoping next chapter is the Boat chapter we saw in the trailer. 

One question that has been bugging me, everyone seems to know of Mandalorians, keeping their word, what they look like, helmets remaining on...etc. but Luke Skywalker is alive and this is post ROTJ so the Jedi were not defeated (ala Order 66/ROTS) so why does nobody seem to have heard of them? 

It might just be amongst Mando's sect - but assuming it's widespread, the Empire was ruthless in suppressing anything Jedi related to kill hope (as seen in Rebels). 

They might have left the Mandalorians as a message. No one looked to Mandalorians for hope.

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5 hours ago, MEANS said:

Season 2 - digging it so far, hoping next chapter is the Boat chapter we saw in the trailer. 

One question that has been bugging me, everyone seems to know of Mandalorians, keeping their word, what they look like, helmets remaining on...etc. but Luke Skywalker is alive and this is post ROTJ so the Jedi were not defeated (ala Order 66/ROTS) so why does nobody seem to have heard of them? 

There was a purge of Mandalorians in the animated Clone Wars show, so they have been forgotten and reduced to myth a lot in the Star Wars universe.   Thats part of the reason the main Mandalorian leader is underground 

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@Kyyle23 I’m talking about the lack of knowledge about the Jedi, not the Mandos. I’ve seen CW and Rebels but both of those are pre ROTJ, and this is post ROTJ and some could argue Luke should be training new Jedi etc. Yes I agree the Empire did their best to get rid of the Jedi, culture..etc but a Jedi blew up the first Death Star and helped lead the rebellion to destroy the second one, people would know about them...

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Ok - so Mandalorian takes place after ROTJ - is that right?  Does that mean like right after or closer to the most recent 3 where Luke is an old man and Leah eventually dies?  

Edit: Google is my friend; 5 years after ROTJ and well before the 1st order stuff. 

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7 hours ago, MEANS said:

@Kyyle23 I’m talking about the lack of knowledge about the Jedi, not the Mandos. I’ve seen CW and Rebels but both of those are pre ROTJ, and this is post ROTJ and some could argue Luke should be training new Jedi etc. Yes I agree the Empire did their best to get rid of the Jedi, culture..etc but a Jedi blew up the first Death Star and helped lead the rebellion to destroy the second one, people would know about them...

I dunno, they keep leaving the Jedi in similar terms in the movies.  Remember in The Force Awakens one of Hans more memorable  lines was "Its true, it's all true" when they were talking about the Jedi and the force.   They kind of leave the Jedi in a "legendary knight stories" type status.  

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