CaliSoxFanViaSWside

No problem son.

No apology necessary in my case. I try to never believe rumors. I was thinking like the Sox probably were and others thinking it was likely to happen . An extension for a guy who only completed a low level of the minors would be pretty unprecedented and I doubted the Sox would have offered much because of that despite the high praise he got in summer camp. I just thought he was going to get low balled.

A few exhibition games is hardly room to gloat. He looked just as amazing in an intrasquad game last year. A full season worth of good pitching would help the Sox immensely. Don't get too carried away with what you think you know and the same applies to Jack.

That's actually true in a lot of cases. I've been a Sox fan for many years and follow the team very closely. I willingly admit there are people who follow college baseball and the draft a lot more than I do. I learn a lot about modern stats and trust the offensive ones more than the defensive ones or pitch framing due to my own investigations on them but also know there are some I do not fully grasp. Stat- Cast is also very good and not just for how far HR's travel. People also being people will use one or 2 stats to support an argument but many have to be taken into consideration in order to get a complete picture. Being a message board people also make arguments in short bursts so lengthy posts are deemed unreadable though a much longer argument may make more sense to the reader to fully grasp the others opinion. It's best to keep an open mind instead of planting the roots of your knowledge so deeply in the ground. We can all learn from each other.

No offense Lillian but stats from 4 and 5 years ago really have nothing to do with the player he is now . But he may still make the team. Seems as though the Sox want to have more power and LH vets on the bench which in theory is a good idea for late inning heroics. All we can hope is that it works in execution as much as it does in theory.

Injured March 21st and they said a couple of weeks at least so I'm hoping for 2 or 2 1/2 weeks.

No he's a ground ball pitcher ! But yea Cease seems like the one who might be the pitcher to show Vaughn the most action in LF.

I think he's back before then possibly the 1st week of April.

Wouldn't be much of a message board if we didn't have 2 opposing sides

I also voted Vaughn for the same reasons but also like you don't know what to make of Vaughn either. I'd definitely prefer him as a 1B/DH . His plate discipline is a big plus but he's going to K a lot too.

All else being equal I would expect Vaughn to draw more walks than Engel. Power encompasses many categories including total bases ,slugging , OPS ,OPS + wRc, HR's doubles and triples ,where you hit in the lineup etc. Yes walks encompass a lot of those things too but do walks and Vaughns defense make him a better choice than Engel out there ? We will find out . Apparently you choose to be snarky with me based on one thing I said and not the overall content of my message which was echoed by bmags . Try at least to stay on topic with who might play the most in the OF in the absence of Eloy unless you are afraid you might be wrong. I have my opinion and you have yours but one of us remained civil on the topic until you decided to be an asshole.

I don't think you are wrong. It's a realistic view. It's your opinion grounded in fact. Eloy was poised for a huge year. Now we get more uncertainties playing more with Collins , Vaughn , Yermin and whoever else might make the team who wasn't on it last year. Really hoping the pitching carries the team and the aforementioned untested guys can prove more valuable than EE,and Mazara and Moncada himself from last year.

Agree to disagree. Despite the K's and lack of walks (he doesn't walk much period) the batting average, slugging and OPS , OPS+ and wRC were all good. Again I am not advocating putting him in starting lineup permanently . Just saying he has indeed improved every year as a hitter and IF it continues he's a much better choice to get OF time than Williams, Hamilton or if Vaughn isn't up to the task of defending the position or needs more time in the minors as a hitter. Just about anyone you put out there among the in house options will probably have a high K rate. Vaughn would draw more walks to be sure but he is nowhere close to the speed and defensive capabilities of Engel. At this point in time Engel may be the equal of Vaughn as a hitter except for OBP. That may sound outlandish but we don't have much to go on currently.

I wouldn't say never since in 2020 he was actually better against RHP than LHP. Small sample size of course but its is indicative of how he has improved as a hitter.

It is good news. Need some power on the bench and at DH to replace lost HR's and extra base hits by Eloy while giving Collins and Yermin chances to help the club and increase their value. Nothing was gained by keeping Lucroy . Everyone believed the hype that Lucroy was preferred and maybe he was before the injury to Eloy so maybe it turns into a blessing in disguise . Good luck Vaughn, Collins and Yermin !

Every year he has been with the Sox he has been better than the year before. Even though the sample size was small in 2020 if he could sustain that for a full season he would be the front runner easily . Good extra base power, speed and defense . No one really trusts him to be that good but maybe he can be . Wouldn't be the 1st time someone has been a late bloomer. Good defense and good offense is always very attractive .

Is everyone just assuming Vaughn will hit and also make the team Opening Day ? Was there an official announcement saying Vaughn is on the 40 man roster now ?

There's no place for Yermin as much as I like the guy. Leury makes the squad as the primary backup infielder . Does Vaughn not make OD roster ? The last few spots on the OD roster are shaping up to be quite a drama.

Vaughn seems like an obvious 1st choice but how long will it last ? New position plus non Spring Training pitching is quite a load to bear. Leury is a pretty good bet since he will make the team but he is better as a RH hitter so not ideal against RHP . Engel should get time once he is healthy . Williams is a bit of a long shot since he may not make the team and if he does might not be there when Engel comes back, but might be the best LH option who could provide some pop. Hamilton is a dynamo on the bases and a valuable fielder but the stick doesn't play . If no one grabs the bull by the horns the Sox might have to make a trade or see who was DFA'd before ST ends . Would waiver claims be considered a Non Cuban Free Agent or Trade acquisition ? If not you need another category.The answer to this question may not be answered until we pile up the stats at the end of the season.

When you consider guys like Robert and Abreu cost $118M a better allocation of resources is spending that 5 or 6M every year on the international youngsters when you have someone like Paddy doing the evaluating. Spending $6M a yr for 20 years is $120M . That's a lot of potential good players or superstars for the cost of Abreu and Robert when you have Paddy in charge. You're hurting Paddy's credibility signing these much older players who before you know it are 25 with only 2 years in the minors to shake off the rust , get acclimated to a new culture and perform at a high level. It's basically the same thing as continually drafting college guys instead of sprinkling in more HS guys or corner bats instead of middle of the field bats. Was Wilder naturally a crook or did he feel underpaid or was his hiring from the normal Sox way of rewarding the undeserving long time organization guy or without much thought attached to it ?

Those 2 players cost the Sox $118M and of course it's great we got them. The point is that Tatis and Soto would've been a combined total of less than $2.5M . For an organization that has had international funds to spend and a great talent evaluator to continually trade money away in that sector and hesitant to sign high profile 16 yr. olds is /was shortsighted at best. . We all just want to win more. Maybe if we had the success of the Cardinals organization we might not be as grumpy and most of us are afraid the success of the rebuild is caught in the middle of COVID and perhaps a CBA problem which has led to, as usual ,less spending and more Soxian ways that do not prioritize winning.

Right 23, before he gets signed which will be January , 2022. So he'll be 23.5 by April when he starts playing . I wasn't off by much. The point was much older than Soto was and Colas missing a year at least of development much like Cespedes so evaluation is more difficult, have to adjust to the culture, shake off the rust, then start climbing the minor league ladder. It's great the Sox are spending just not as excited by Cespedes and Colas as most are for those reasons. Rutherford will be 24 in May and most have already decided he's never going to be a quality MLB player, yet people talk like Cespedes or Colas could be starting for the Sox soon without ever having seen them play a single inning in the minors. Both Cespedes and Colas would have to make some serious progress in a short period of time to play in MLB within a year of 1st playing in the states.

This. Soto was also 16 when he signed and Jerry doesn't like spending on 16 yr. olds. Funny how they are going to pony up for Colas who will be 24 by the time he STARTS playing in the states. What a waste of Paddy's expertise.

It is hard to imagine Hamilton making the team. He is what he is at this point. Too bad rosters aren't bigger. He hasn't hurt his cause since he came to the Sox . He still can't steal 1st base but when he does get on he steals almost every time.He's also taken a decent amount of walks since arriving and seems like he really disrupts the pitchers when he's on 1st. He's stolen 5 bases and advanced once on a bad pickoff throw. That's already 6 times he's gotten to 2nd when he's on 1st via a walk or force out. He's also played very well in the OF. I know that doesn't help his meager OPS but it's like he turns a walk or HBP into 2 bases consistently . He might be the most valuable guy on the bases in MLB. He's gotten on base at a .429 clip so far. SSS

A lost season in the last year of the rebuild wasn't exactly his point. It was the amount of times he's been injured in a relatively small amount of games.