caulfield12

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 08:04 PM) What? You said the money owed to Puig was a nice chunk of change when we owe more than that to Shields.

Stone was joking today on the Score about Hawk being overexuberant and calling Avi a five tool player after his two homers last night. Said he must be leaving 2-3 of those tools at home.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 3, 2016 -> 06:53 PM) Didn't say he wasn't better than Avi, but his numbers have declined every season, has a bad reputation in the clubhouse and off the field, and is owed a nice chunk of change. I think the Dodgers would take nothing but eating the contract. BTW, Avi has had 30 game stretches of .800+ OPS as well. Sure, of course that same amount of money owed to Shields won't be a hindrance at all this offseason. Then it it will the fair, going rate for a 4th/5th starter, just like Danks.

Team Drake LaRoche vs. KW Sale vs. 1976 Jerseys/Ventura/marketing department Hawk vs. Stone (resolved, hopefully) What next?

The Dodgers putting out "false stories" about him going crazy in the clubhouse when it didn't even happen...just doesn't make any sense to sabotage the value of your own player. The source was solid enough a few of the national baseball beat writers picked it up and had to apologize to Puig and Adam Katz (agent).

The problem is Hahn knew all the payroll restrictions when he took the job, and about KW's status as his superior/supervisor/mentor, whatever you want to call it. During these four or five years, we've been unable to grow revenues and expand payroll....at least not since the blip of the 2014-15 off-season when we foolishly tried to spend our way into contention but didn't really come close. I can't imagine many of the die-hard season ticket holders not ripping up or throwing away anything having to do with 2017 right now. But the solution is VERY VERY simple. They're going to have to trade Sale OR Quintana this off-season AND be willing to up the payroll into the $140-150 million range in order to acquire some of the pieces they can't trade for. You can see them making one of the trades, but raising payroll in the face of declining revenues, in a FA market with a declining rate of return on investment.....yeah, not so much. HEGONE7 said it well. JR has to have a long conversation with the board of directors and decide if he really trusts Hahn AND/OR KW to stick around for this rebuild/retooling. Realistically, they need to start making checklists (Stone said this on the Score today) of 1-20 or 1-50 of all the areas of minor league development/scouting/evaluation (baserunning, fielding, fundamentals, advancing runners, backing up bases, positioning on throws, bunting), etc., and bringing in more "experts" from the outside (see Hostetler or Paddy) who can replace long-time Sox scouts and coaching staff who quite simply aren't getting the job done. At any rate, right now....there's just ZERO hope for 2017. It would have been better had they started the process at the trade deadline, but they still have August and the offseason. Unfortunately, we won't get the advantage of seeing Tilson now because he's injured. We know that Sanchez probably isn't an everyday player. It's just going to be frustrating watching guys like Shuck, Avi Garcia, Morneau and the Navarro soaking up playing time when they're unlikely to be part of the team next year. The same thing happened at the end of 2015, when they almost completely stopped playing Saladino over the last couple of months....because they wanted to give Alexei Ramirez the best opportunity to earn money as a FA???? It just didn't make any sense, and still doesn't. Send Fulmer back to AAA so he can start. Let Ranaudo get some more starts. Play Saladino, and Tilson when he (hopefully) returns from his hamstring injury. Heck, bring up Burdi for awhile and see how he does out of the bullpen in September. Just give the fans SOME TANGIBLE reason to be interested in following this team going forward. It's pretty sad when I was watching the game yesterday and a fellow Sox fan said...well, at least the Twins have Sano and Kepler and Berrios and Buxton (even if they're in last)....and they'll have a very high draft pick next year...so what do we have to look forward to in terms of young impact position players? Difference makers...? Are there any?

It's really more about launching the political careers of Ivanka, and Donald Junior to a lesser extent.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Aug 2, 2016 -> 05:32 PM) What did the Royals do? Why didn't the Angels trade Trout? Decided to hold onto Cain, Hosmer, Moustakas, Volquez, Duffy, Escobar and Davis until next All Star Break. When Hochevar and Davis got hurt, it sort of forced their hand. They'll probably sign Morneau to replace Morales.

Why is Fulmer not starting at Charlotte again?

No, not really. It means we will go into April with two unproven players in Tilson and Engel in CF. Unless they force Engel or May up early instead of Shuck.

The White Sox are pretty lucky to have anyone left to tell other fans how to act/behave. The Score guys were doing the exact same thing yesterday afternoon....everyone questioning the front office or ownership was told quite bluntly...why be a fan of that team if it bothers you so much or you don't trust them to make the right decisions? Well, that leads to the whole point of fandom...none of us started following the White Sox franchise because of the ownership group or GM, it's because of the uniform itself, and the players who wear that jersey. So I'll have to disagree on that point, that just because you don't believe in the front office or JR means you have to stop being a fan of the team itself. That's pretty much ridiculous.

And seeing the price on Jay Bruce (to to the Mets), why didn't the White Sox at least try to make that move in mid-May before the bottom completely fell out and it was too late...? Why the move for Shields and then just nothing to follow it up? Did they honestly still believe in Avi Garcia at that time? Why/how?

Honestly, it feels like they didn't do anything at the trade deadline because neither Williams nor Hahn will man up and take responsibility for the failure of the last two offseasons. Probably both were scrambling around to stake out the opposite position of the other, and neither wanted to go to JR, so pretty much nothing got done. Surprise!!! It doesn't make any sense not to have gotten together a MONTH AGO and started trading assets like Robertson, Cabrera and Frazier. If this front office could only for ONCE get on the same freaking page and go to JR collectively and tell him they screwed up and the only way out of it is to do XYZ, then there would at least be a glimmer of hope. Then JR can decide whether to keep both of them or fire both of them. Instead, it's like Ozzie vs. KW where it feels like they're positioning for one to survive the other and have total control. In the offseason, we can get Betts or Bradley, Jr., or Bogaerts for Sale. Great. The team is in exactly the same position it was...unless Rodon or Fulmer decide to impersonate Cy Young contenders. We needed to make the kind of move that would bring in 2-3 potential starters offensively...or 2-3 future starting pitchers, like the proposed trade with the Dodgers. This was the PERFECT time to strike like the Yankees did and load up on prospects who will be coming up in 2017-18 and no later than 2019. Even the Pirates sold off, because they know they have the core in place (other than McCutcheon) for the next 3-4 years and won't gamble it all for another wild card game. Brewers, Padres, everyone ended up looking better than us. But excellent, we have another outfield version of Carlos Sanchez or Micah Johnson to entertain us for the next couple of months in Tilson. And we get to see how Dan Jennings does in high leverage situations. Oh, boy.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/la-sp-dodger...snap-story.html The sad thing is a 700+ ops Puig playing much better defense is still leagues better than Avi.

Unacceptable. Hahn's words, not mine. Uttered numerous times in that presser.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 08:18 PM) I've been sick to my stomach all afternoon over this. I understand the underlying logic in holding onto Sale & Quintana until the offseason, although I question which non-contenders will actually be part of this so-called derby. To me, there are only so many teams that can afford these guys and most of them were in the playoff hunt anyways. Having said that, major leaguers could be in play this fall and so could 2016 draft picks. Perhaps a few more teams will enter the fray, but I don't expect a ton more, even with a poor free agent market. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt on Sale & Quintana for now. What really pisses me off are all the other guys they could have dealt. Yes, we don't know what was offered, but it's quite amazing to me that we only made one trade and it was for a local kid with ties to our GM's high school. Tilson is a legit prospect, but I can't help but think this is another case of our front office trying to get their "guy" who fills a specific need and missing out on a potentially greater return. And I find it incredibly hard to believe no one offered anything of value for Melky or Robertson. Relievers & OFs were going left and right for solid returns. The fact we couldn't make any deals with out guys strongly suggests our demands were unrealistic or we were simply late to the party. Either way, this deadline only increased my fears that Hahn & KW don't know how to sell. The worst part of this all is the complete lack of direction. We still don't know if this team is going to rebuild or retool or most likely do a half-ass job in between. The lack of moves has me greatly concerned there is still no long term plan. Obviously we'll know more this fall/winter, but I would have loved to seen some signs that a rebuilding was coming. Instead, we get to spend the next five months worrying whether or no the front office will do the right thing. I'm getting to the point where following this team has become unenjoyable due to the utter incompetence of our front office and ownership group. Again, I hope they prove me wrong and blow this mess up during the offseason, but with the lack of direction and accountability for years & years I have no reason to be optimistic at the moment. Exactly right. At this point, they won't be able to give tickets away, and then you'll have a forced instead of planned rebuild. The dichotomy with the Northside couldn't be more obvious. We're almost completely irrelevant. Congrats, JR.

Signing Cespedes really is at the top of the fantasyland wish list.

Nobody mentioned watching Carson Fulmer struggle out of the bullpen...why isn't he starting again? Guess the James Shields August waiver claim thread can start. Melky and Frazier will be claimed/potentially blocked as well. Meanwhile, the NY Yankees, according to Keith Law, have a Top 3 farm system.

QUOTE (KyYlE23 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 08:07 AM) Doesnt look likely. At least not this year, Kershaws back is f***ed Well, yeah, the whole back thing. Jenks and Crede know all about that...at any rate, just adding more YOUNG pitching doesn't cure any line-up problems unless we keep leveraging young pitching in these two or three for one type deals. We need to get Pederson (obviously they'll look to deal Puig first)...and two more position prospects back, along with the oft-mentioned pitching names such as Urias and De Leon. Their offense is so ragged, with Seager and Turner being the two best hitters...surely they could use Melky or Frazier. For example, they could move Turner to 2B, or LF. Or play Frazier at 1B, although not sure they're 100% ready to give up on Adrian Gonzalez this year. Robertson might come into play too, with their closer leaving for FA after this year.

QUOTE (WhiteSoxLifer @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 07:59 AM) LAD is 1 w/ win now mandate & resources for a chris sale trade. of course, no 1 this valuable's ever been dealt at deadline https://twitter.com/JonHeyman/status/760112583160520705 David Price last year? Although not the age (27) and with remaining years of bargain-basement control involved.

Other than Collins, would anyone bet one of Greg's houses another current Sox position prospect will be starting for the big league club in 2019 or 2020? Who, exactly?

Uep, Matt Purke as second lefty isn't too reassuring...

QUOTE (GreenSox @ Jul 31, 2016 -> 08:42 PM) Indeed. And on the plus side, when looking for prospects, his hit rate is pretty good, especially as he never traded for any elite prospects (and never paid an elite price). He was 1/3 with Avi, Eaton and Davidson (although Davidson appeared to be turning the corner). But he was 2/3 with the A Ball prospects in the Peavy trade (Wendelkin threw well today for Oakland). He got a nice prospect for Beckham if you can believe it (but then squandered him when trading for someone more proven - Kahnle). This is pretty good return for non-elite prospect fishing. Trading up is where he's gone awry, imo. I hope we break this down, but I am glad he's holding out for 5 top prospects+ for Sale; he can give up on his ML player demand, but not the elite prospect demand. http://espn.go.com/mlb/player/_/id/34241 Says hello...

QUOTE (CyAcosta41 @ Aug 1, 2016 -> 07:25 AM) I'm not concerned at all that nothing has happened yet on our big-chips (Sale, Q) or on our mid-sized chips (Robertson, Melky, Frazier). With Sale and Q, the combination of ability and value (salary and control) and in an area of overall market weakness (quality SP) makes them highly valuable. No way is our Front Office not aware of this. All of the talk about the Sox "asking for the moon" and so forth is (a) justified (at this time in the trading spectrum), and (b) posturing from rival GMs who are trying to pressure a team in clear need to unload their prime assets at a more buyer friendly price. The Sox can only counter by sticking to their guns (at least now), playing teams and rivalries against each other, and ramping up the sense of impending doom to the competing claimants by using the expiring clock to their advantage. IF a Sale or Q deal was to be made during this year's trade deadline, I always expected it to be made at the 11th hour. In other words, business as usual, folks. Personally, I think our offensive suckitude is so strong (both our existing crew and our demonstrated inability to draft and/or develop offensive talent) that we truly need to restock. I'd love to see one of Sale or Q go for an offense oriented haul (a top arm or two coming back as well) while the other goes to the Dodgers for a deal headlined by Urias, but also bringing back DeLeon, Pederson, and a few more sticks. I'd also rather see Sale out of the A.L. altogether -- so Sale to LA for me. Between possible Bosox and Texas hauls -- Bosox all the way. Especially if Texas won't trade Mazara (at least during the season), most of the other headliners are riddled with questions. Not so with the Red Sox. The prospect business is risky enough. We need greater certainty with our uncertainty. I also think there are two major sleepers out there -- the Yankees and the Pirates. Real good chance the Yanks have assembled prospects for Chapman and Miller in order to be players for Sale or Q. With Torres, Frazier, and Sheffield now under their control, they can easily send back the proverbial haul -- give me those three, plus Sanchez and another arm and they are easily in the mix. In fact, expand that deal and let them have homecoming for lots of wayward Yankmes -- how about Q, Robertson, and Melky in a mega-deal? LOVE fueling the Red Sox - Yankees rivalry to our possible advantage. My other sleeper is the Pirates. Sure, looks like they've cashed it in for 2016. That said, they have a strong nucleus for the foreseeable future, a solid prospect base, and an absolute NEED for cost-controlled pitching super talent. No way can they take the leap to a next level -- or even sustain this level -- without that. I'd be very surprised if they're not heavily in the mix right now, particularly because they could trade rostered MLB talent today while those still competing likely feel they can't. Can you imagine Sale and Kershaw paired together? (Of course, they already had Greinke, who wasn't too shabby.) I think Puig coming back is likelier than Pederson, fwiw. Agree about the abysmal offense. Even with Lawrie, who just strikes out way too much to enjoy.

Saladino, in all likelihood, is a good utility player on a playoff-caliber team. I do hope he gets everyday playing time the final two months. We already know what we have in Lawrie and Frazier, assuming Todd's not dealt today.