Paint it Black

Referring to the picture posted, that actually might be baseballs or seeds/dip/gum whatever. I have not read any of this thread, but I find it telling that no former teammates that don't have the last name of "Guillen" really have not come to the defense of him. Not that it makes Oney's asshat antics any better, but still.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 24, 2011 -> 10:01 PM) That's exactly why I would trade him too. I think he can be a starter, but I am doubting the organization believes he can be. My opinion differs in that I don't think he can be an effective starter. I think he lacks a real "out" pitch to work deep into games, and I wonder if he can repeat his motion over 6+ innings in the big leagues. There is just something about his delivery and mechanics, like I can't quite put my finger on it, but I know it when I see it.

QUOTE (sircaffey @ Feb 24, 2011 -> 03:09 PM) Can people stop using ridiculous comparisons to Sale, please? He's not Strasburg, Prior, or Chapman. Get used to it around here. Back in some future sox threads I was nearly burned at the stake for pointing out people around baseball think Sale is a pen arm. Oh and you're out your damn fool mind if you wouldn't trade Sale for Rasmus. Sale isn't starting people. Not this year, not next.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 23, 2011 -> 12:38 PM) seriously, we have no place to play Rasmus I think I can find a spot for him. Regardless, this is a crazy idea.

I just moved to the city in November. Roscoe Village is just okay. I have been to Revolution Brewing and I was drunk. Like I barely remember it. Also Bmags is right, Estelle's is so great.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 14, 2011 -> 08:38 PM) Here in Muncie, we are blacked out for Cubs, Sox, Tigers, Reds, Indians, and Cardinals. lol. The only team we get locally is the Reds. It's literally impossible for me to watch Sox games legally, so obviously I have to use illegal tactics, and if I ever get caught for it, I am going to raise some hell. I didn't know where Muncie was in Indiana...I had to google it. I was surprised how far west and south is was and still blacked out. Again, the fan gets screwed simply because they live in the gray area and can't watch their favorite team whether it's TV or Internet.

Hey look, more evidence as to why MLB territory restrictions are awful. When I lived in Normal, IL I didn't get WCIU, buuuut since I am in the TV market I don't get access to watch the team on MLB.TV. It's really sad that a fan of a certain team has to jump through hoops to consume a product.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 08:37 PM) No offense, but that logic is stupid. The value of a nearly major league ready prospect with all-star potential who's only 21 years old is far greater than that of the 20th pick in a deep draft who's at least 2 to 3 years from the majors. Worst case scenario, Viciedo will be a quality platoon 1B/DH, while the draft pick will flame out within a year and give you nothing. Well I personally believe that in this draft, a first round pick might have more upside, potential, and be better than Viciedo, but I'm not making my arguments again. Also, Viciedo's worst case scenario is that he sucks and can't stick. Lets not take 1/2 a season as proof that he is good enough. Case in point: Josh Fields. Plus, Viciedo is still a few years a away with him switching positions and awful plate discipline.

QUOTE (Chisoxfn @ Feb 3, 2011 -> 10:06 AM) Just an FYI, Dunn would have been a member of the White Sox last year had the Sox been willing to give up Dayan Viciedo. This is true, and I wish the trade would have been done. Instead of trading for and then signing Dunn, the Sox lose the draft pick in a draft that is very deep.

Neyer is awesome and I will be following him where ever he goes.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 02:55 PM) Anybody who takes Escobar over Viciedo is only taking him because Escobar's floor is much higher than Viciedo's. At the very least, Escobar should turn out to be a pretty damn good utility infielder, whereas Viciedo could certainly flame out and never be able to make it past AAA. Based on pure potential, Viciedo could be a .900+ OPS type of hitter. I am no way making an argument that Viciedo has a lower ceiling than Escobar. But yeah that's my point in some ways. I just wasn't impressed with Tank when he was up. People are counting on him to hit when hes not patient and is just a dead fastball hitter. At least we know Escobar can stick with his glove. QUOTE (danman31 @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 03:31 PM) Since when can Escobar handle the bat? Did I miss something? Why do people suddenly think he is good? Straight from KG QUOTE (fathom @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 03:38 PM) With all due respect, you couldn't be more wrong. Rizzo was obsessed with Viciedo, but KW wouldn't give him up. Yeah I thought about it and I believe you are correct. I am wrong. It still doesn't make me change my mind about Viciedo though.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 02:59 PM) It's a small point, but there really is nothing wrong with a .333 OBP. I mean, he's not the leadoff hitter. It would be amazing if Alexei Ramirez could combine the power he had in '08, the plate discipline he had in '09, and the defense he had in '10 He would be a 5+ WAR player. It would also be awesome if I stumbled into a lucrative inheritance as well. I mean I agree. I'm not knocking Ramirez. Hell I really like the extension. I just hate when people act as if pointing out a players flaws makes them biased towards an organization. And Alexei's defense has come a long way. QUOTE (danman31 @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 03:39 PM) So Alexei's OBP is a valid criticism yet Eduardo Escobar is a good prospect? Consistency is fun. See above. I must have missed the post where I said Escobar was an OBP player. In the Free Agent market it's harder to find a short stop who has a glove. Not so much with slow corner defenders with a stick. Hell just look at this past off season. Dunn, Pena, Manny, Victor Martinez (I know he's a catcher but sorry, no way he plays that deal out at catcher), Konerko, Huff, Thome and Vlad off the top of my head. And again, Tank has power potential to dream on. If you prefer him over Escobar that's fine. But dead fastball power hitters who never walk either don't last or rarely hit their peak. Christ, this is like the Brandon Allen argument all over again.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 10:22 AM) Funny. I thought I saw Dayan hit a few bombs for the Sox last year. And you're wrong, guys with Viciedo's power potential are not in every organization. Everyone club in the league would inquire about Dayan if we started dangling him. Not so much with Escobar. Except there appeared to be about zero interest in him at the trade deadline. The only reason Viciedo was up before September was because of the black hole at third. QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 01:06 PM) Not to be a jackass but that's quite absurd. Yet two professional scouts who do it for a living say otherwise.

QUOTE (Disco72 @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 01:22 PM) In order to make a fair comparison, you would have to compare his right/wrong rates for the Sox versus all other major league teams because all teams' prospects fail at an incredibly large rate. Well to be really fair, the white sox would have to develop somebody worthwhile more than once a decade QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 01:31 PM) I for one am still impressed at his ability to continue ripping on Alexei's OBP while ignoring everything else he's doing. Except he said he was the best SS in the AL many times in 2010 but ok.......Plus isn't it a valid criticism? Alexei's OBP the past three years: .317, .333, .313. Yuck. QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 01:34 PM) This is freakin Soxtalk, it's more a negative place than a positive one, I can tell you that. Nobody wants to be fed kool-aid around here but people are going to tell you when they feel there is a bias against the team and it's obvious to most that Law has something against the Sox. It's funny nobody can prove that, nor can they give a reason as to why he has a bias, besides of course the "HE WAS THERE FOR THE DAVID WELLS TRADE!!!!1" which isn't true.

QUOTE (Disco72 @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 09:25 AM) You're missing the point. You are arguing that we, as Soxtalkers, want sunshine blown up our a**es by Law. That's not true. What many of us feel is that Law consistently rates Sox players and prospects below other analysts and writers. Sure, Law may like a Sox player/prospect or two, but it remains a valid point that he consistently rates Sox players/prospects lower than others do. Which prospect has he been wrong about? The whole KLaw anti-white sox is the new measuring column inches in the tribune. It's pretty embarrassing actually.

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 09:05 AM) So if you could have only one of these guys in our system, you'd take Esobar over Viciedo? Yes without question. Seeing as both may never play for the big club, Escobar would be more valuable in a trade because of the lack of good shortstops in the bigs right now. I can go find a guy who can't field but has power potential. Those guys are in every org. Slick fielding shortstops who can handle the bat in the bigs are not.

QUOTE (ChiSox_Sonix @ Feb 2, 2011 -> 07:33 AM) And likewise, don't be mad when you get called out for being naive and turning a blind eye to the obvious. Obvious to what? His job is to tell you what he thinks. Do you really want to real articles that say every player is the best, like you're watching ESPN coverage of the NFL draft? Again, I can go to Whitesox.com and read articles on how great Jordan Danks and Tyler Flowers are. If only it were true.

Wait. A guy who basically has no position, and is blocked at DH by Dunn/Konerko and has major questions about whether he can hit enough to justify the awful defense and I'm supposed to buy into the hype? And do we know he IS 21? Because that first sentence made me laugh really, really hard.

Sure are a lot of people ignoring the fact that KLaw loved Beckham, and still does for that matter. He also liked Hudson and liked the Dunn signed. And I'm sure everybody in this thread just missed his quote in his latest column regarding Sale and the White Sox: If you all want someplace that will feed you the kool-aid go there. Don't be mad when a writer tells you his actually opinion instead of pandering to the stupid.

QUOTE (maggsmaggs @ Jan 27, 2011 -> 03:42 PM) I was listening to their podcast and Goldstein said he takes position scarcity strongly into effect so that's why. I don't get it. I don't think he is anything but a .260., ML slap hitter with a great glove. Those guys are more prevalent than a 40-plus HR, .300 BA guy like Viciedo. Do analysts realize that he is still ONLY 21 years old? First I'd like to say that I listen to that podcast every week, it's the best thing going. With that being said, I think KG is valid in putting Escobar over Viciedo. As it's already been said with Escobar, you have a guy who HAS a great glove who won't hit a ton, but still will prevent a ton of runs with his glove. Then on the opposite spectrum you have Viciedo who MIGHT hit 40 homeruns, but comes with a lot of other questions, such as will he walk more than once every other month? Can he play any position on the field? I guess my bias comes down to this: Personally I just don't get the Viciedo hype. Guys who have the same OBP and their batting average need to get really, really, really lucky to sustain valuable production. I saw a few power surges with Tank, but I'm skeptical that he will ever come close to putting up typical big league slugger/no glove numbers that justify trotting him out to a corner OF spot.

QUOTE (JoeCoolMan24 @ Feb 1, 2011 -> 08:16 PM) The wind is so bad in Chicago right now that Wrigley's roof is being torn off. There is so much debris on the field that you would think the Cubs just made a call to the bullpen. Did A.J. just hit another 9th inning homerun off Dempster?

B..B...BUT what about Kotsay's hardest .220 ever seen?!?!?! What about the flexibility he brings??!?!?! WHERE WILL WE EVER FIND A SLOW DH WHO CAN PLAY THE CORNERS IN A PINCH?!?!?!?!

QUOTE (Rowand44 @ Jan 27, 2011 -> 10:21 PM) Jon Rauch and Jim Parque Tony Graffanino The error in Game 2 of the ALDS? In all seriousness, a good utility scrappy guy that all teams have. Fun player to watch though. Kelly Wunsch

Also, say what you will about Wood not being able to stay healthy early in the decade, the guy went on to have a very interesting and good career.

QUOTE (Jordan4life @ Jan 27, 2011 -> 07:37 PM) What would you go by then? Batting Average and RBI's.