Chicago White Sox

QUOTE (Chicago White Sox @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 03:12 PM) And it begins. Sale to the Red Sox for Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, Kopech, + Quintana to the Dodgers for Urias, Bellinger, Verdugo, + Was going to do this before, but here's your potential 2019 roster with these trades. We'd also have a boatload of money and an epic free agent class to spend it on to fill in the gaps (obviously not all these guys would work out). Someone please tell me how holding onto Sale and/or Quintana makes more sense? 1B: Bellinger 2B: Moncada SS: Anderson 3B: Devers LF: Verdugo CF: Benintendi RF: Eaton DH: Abreu C: Collins #1: Urias #2: Rodon #3: Fulmer #4: Kopech #5: Adams/Hansen CL: Burdi SU: Jones

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 03:01 PM) Jon Heyman‏ @JonHeyman The #WhiteSox are at least listening on offers for Sale and Quintana, with the #RedSox among many interested parties And it begins. Sale to the Red Sox for Moncada, Benintendi, Devers, Kopech, + Quintana to the Dodgers for Urias, Bellinger, Verdugo, +

QUOTE (Harry Chappas @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 02:31 PM) I do not trust this organization and their professional scouting ability to make the right choices in trading these players. Why? Because they missed on Avi Garcia & Matt Davidson? You always have to accept the fact that some of your prospects are going bust, which is why you need a lot of them. This front office's downfall was relying on 100% of them to work out in recent years. We had no depth when we started going for it again and it ended up costing us in the end. I'm not sure how much I blame Hahn & KW for that, because it's very possible Reinsdorf told them to go for it against their wishes. Don't get me wrong, I'm not giving the front office a free pass here because they've clearly made some mistakes. Having said that, I'm not passing on the opportunity of a lifetime because there's a non-zero chance they fail, especially when the alternative is more half-assing it.

We have a very unique opportunity here. The demand for starting pitching is insane, we have two young/cheap/controllable left-handed starters available, and there are multiple contenders in need of pitching with elite farm systems. For a franchise mired in mediocrity, this is an opportunity of a lifetime. The packages we could receive would be unprecedented and inject an incredible amount of talent into our organization. I would fully expect seven top 100 prospects (several of them elite) & another couple B types. And that's just for Sale & Quintana. Trading guys like Robertson, Duke, Frazier, Melky, & Lawrie would only increase the overall haul. By the end of next offseason, we could easily have the best farm system in baseball, quality major league assets in Eaton, Abreu, Anderson, Rodon, Fulmer, & Jones, huge draft & international pools for 2017, and a ton of financial flexibility. That's option A and is right there for the taking. Option B is to half-ass it three more years, lose Sale for a comp pick (if they still exist), and remain in mediocrity for the foreseeable future. I can't believe we're even having this debate. I realize that rebuilding is painful, but there is no doubt in my mind it's the quickest path for us becoming a legit playoff contender again.

QUOTE (ptatc @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 10:20 AM) This seems like the best bet. Hopefully, they should get at least 1 or 2 MLB ready players in the positions who mentioned. This will 2-3 holes to fill over the next year or two. Frazier, Melky, & Lawrie are all free agents after next season. So either you're spending big money to lock up those guys (all three who are flawed and two in their 30s) or have to fill another three holes with limited internal options. I really feel like people are grasping at straws here. Look at our weak minor league system. Look at the next two free agent classes which are both poor. Realize Chris Sale, our most important player, has three years of control left. Combine all those facts and really try to come up with a legit plan to win before you lose Sale for nothing. Best case scenario you get one year with him before leaves for a $200M+ contract and that's assuming everything goes right. Seems like many posters here are so anti-rebuild that they'd like to half-ass it for another three years.

QUOTE (Quinarvy @ Jul 22, 2016 -> 09:51 AM) This is about where I'm at. If we build the next core around Sale, Q, Rodon, Fulmer and Anderson I won't be mad. Maybe Eaton and Abreu stick around. Pray that Hostetler's drafts keep looking positive. How in the world do you build a core around those guys before Sale hits free agency in three years? Collins might only need one season in the minors, but even college guys like Call & Fisher will need two. And honestly, there isn't much there after those three except for maybe Engel & Trey M and both are huge wild cards at this point. Honestly, there's no rational argument to hold onto Sale & Quintana at this point.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 10:49 PM) Q for Soler and Happ is the dumbest thing I have ever seen Lol...I was thinking the same exact thing.

QUOTE (Baron @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 06:13 PM) Great...I'll take Profar. Thank you. Profar has three years of control and is represented by Boras. He can't be the biggest piece in a Quintana trade.

I really hope that this front office and ownership group doesn't blow this current opportunity. You don't have to move Sale or Quintana right now, but you should be actively listening on all offers and prepared to move them in the offseason.

Trade both of them or trade neither. Stop half-assing it, this team isn't winning anytime soon without both of them, so why hold onto just one? The good news is we have some interesting, high-upside arms in the system. If we go full-rebuild, we can give Fulmer some additional seasoning in the minors next year, can try developing Burdi as a starter, can give Adams a full year in AA, and take our time with Hansen. Those four plus Rodon is a nice starting point towards building a quality rotation and they should all be ready by 2018 hopefully. And that doesn't include anyone you get in the firesale or potentially draft with a high pick this year. The real concern is on the postion player side and that's what needs to be prioritized if we sell. Anderson is the only guy on the major league roster that you definitely keep and feel confident about building around. I think there's some hope for Saladino becoming a solid regular at 2B, but that's far less of a certainty. Eaton still has five years of control after this season, so an argument could be made for keeping him. But that's pretty much it. On the minors side, Collins looks like the real deal as a hitter, whether he ends up at catcher, 1B, or DH. After him is a bunch of question marks and guys a long ways away. If trading Sale & Quintana can get you four elite hitting prospects (top 50) plus some other high-end talents, we can quickly rebuild this team in a couple of years. Obviously you have to get those deals right, but if executed correctly, it's probably our fastest route towards competing.

QUOTE (Dick Allen @ Jul 21, 2016 -> 06:18 AM) The problem is if all these guys suck and are going to be free agents fairly soon, who would give up anything of value to get them? Doesn't the constant trolling get tiring for you? First off, you know the guys we're discussing don't suck. Some of them may be having down years, but they aren't bad baseball players. Second, you're not new to baseball and know that teams pay a premium for talent at the deadline all the time. The fact that none of the guys we'd likely deal are pure rentals is a plus. Not sure why I even waste my time responding to this nonsense. We all get you're anti-rebuild, you've made that perfectly clear, but why can't you at least be objective in your arguements instead of simply posting fluff?

Profar has three years of control left and is represented by Boras. He can't be the main chip in a deal for Sale or Quintana.

QUOTE (DirtySox @ Jul 20, 2016 -> 08:12 PM) whitesoxdave ‏@barstoolWSD 31m31 minutes ago Chicago, IL I am getting indications that the #WhiteSox may be re-considering their stance of being "non-sellers" in the coming weeks whitesoxdave ‏@barstoolWSD 29m29 minutes ago Chicago, IL I won't name teams/players yet but have gotten semi-specific details Awesome news. I've never been in favor of a full-fledged rebuild in my entire life as a Sox fan, but I'm certain it's the right move at the moment given where the franchise stands. Still skeptical Jerry will approve a sell-off.

QUOTE (fathom @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 10:45 PM) Some team might think they can fix him. His approach is so bad now. Why wouldn't you try a new hitting coach before giving up Abreu for pennies on the dollar?

QUOTE (Joshua Strong @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 05:37 PM) I can't remember a player of Sale's caliber being made available in quite sometime. When you consider his status on the field, his ridiculous contract and his age, he might be untradable but with that being said if the Sox were going to trade him they would need to get something better than what the Indians got for Bartolo Colon, something totally ridiculous. I'd want four top 100 prospects plus some lottery tickets for Sale. And I'd want one of those prospects to be a top 10-15 guy and another a top 30-40 type.

QUOTE (CaliSoxFanViaSWside @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 02:53 PM) Or to put it another way. We have many people here who post, so different people have different opinions. One will say the Sox are stupid for letting him pitch in a blowout game and another will say the Sox are stupid for not letting him pitch in a blowout game. Not really any trend unless you can find the same person saying both things. The only trend is we have people who think differently. Not really a shocker since we are all thinking and emotional beings. Thank you. I'm getting tired of people taking the board's variety of opinions and then calling it hypocritical.

Remember when we traded Ray Durham for Jon Adkins. If we do decide to sell, at least the returns should be better than that deal.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Jul 19, 2016 -> 07:17 AM) Someone gets it...yay! $11 million closers are unnecessary luxuries on .500ish teams. I'm not overreacting to last night's game, but he should be the #1 guy you look into moving at the deadline. He makes $25M the next two years, which could be better utilized elsewhere on the roster. Additionally, I think you should actually be able to get a halfway decent prospect for him. I just worry Robertson may regress over the next two years and then you've really got a real problem on your hands. Move him now and let Jones have a shot.

DFA Navarro, call up Smith. Hard for Kevan to be much worse, plus he might show enough to be part of our catching tandem next year. Nothing to lose at this point IMO.

And that's officially a season!

Robertson sure likes to make things interesting...I have faith though.

QUOTE (SoxAce @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 11:17 PM) He's gotta show that 30/30 potential KW once said. Lol...at least they cut the CF expiriment quickly.

Why they keep running with Avi I'll never know.

QUOTE (Thad Bosley @ Jul 18, 2016 -> 10:43 PM) Do the Bulls operate under a sweetheart lease deal, and have they since the United Center came into being such that Reinsdorf enjoys the trappings of all of the revenues of the stadium but little to none of the expenses? Because that's what your hero Mr. Reinsdorf unscrupulously secured for himself with the deal with the state back in '88, and from which he's profited IMMENSELY over the past 25 years. Massive revenue that cones from a Major League Baseball stadium, no expense. That's the primary reason Reinsdorf is a billionaire today. It's as simple as that. No offense dude, but you're totally f***ing wrong here. The sweetheart lease deal is obviously valuable, but is not nearly as valuable as you're making it out to be. How much do you think other teams pay in rent per year? Based on my limited research, it sounds like $20M might be on the high end, making our lease under-market by $18M/year. Now consider our lease only lasts 13 more years, putting its undiscounted pre-tax value at $234M. I don't have access to Excel right now, but if you took the present value of the after-tax lease savings, the value is probably closer to $100M. Given that Reindsdorf only has a small stake in the team, his portion of the sweetheart lease deal likely makes up at most a percent or two of his billion dollar valuation.

I really hope they try converting Burdi into a starter next year. We should do everything in our power to develop him and Hansen into front-line starters. I don't mind if that means taking it a bit slower with them. Do whatever it takes to harness their incredible potential. Also, glad to see they called up Call to full season ball. Hopefully Fisher moves up to Kannapolis as well once he's recovered from his injury. These guys should move pretty fast with starting assignments in high A next year.