SCCWS

The best scenario would be the Sox starters are good enough that Rodon can stay in the minors all season and get called up in September. He can enjoy watching the 2015 Sox in the World Series and then join the rotation in spring 2016.

QUOTE (raBBit @ Nov 16, 2014 -> 12:06 AM) As far as Hahn having 100% control, Kenny has thrown a veto on a Peavy to Boston trade that did not involve the Tigers. I believe it was DA who alluded to it earlier in the thread and I got confirmation from someone within the organization that it was the case. Hahn wanted Middlebrooks and Williams either didn't like Middlebrooks or thought there was a better offer out there. That same person, who is in baseball ops, told me "Hahn is the acting GM and handles the day-to-day processes but KW has the final word and will be in Reinsdorf's ear if he feels the need to be." When I continued to probe on this topic he said something like "Hahn is very much involved in all organizational moves, but Kenny still has the juice and definitely misses the day-to-day part of being a GM" and went on to say that KW is operating under immunity. Now whether you want to take my word for it, is on you. you can take what I say with a grain of salt and consider it bulls*** and I wouldn't blame you as I am just another quasi-anonymous message board poster. The rumor was very strong in the Boston media as well that Middlebrooks was the guy being offered for Peavy. But eventually the Reed/Davidson was probably not a better decision than Middlebrooks for filling the 3B hole. I would still prefer Gillaspie over Middlebrooks at this stage.

Obviously the media is constantly running around looking for quotes/rumors at the winter meetings. So far the lack of movement probably has some frustrated already. But I have seen several quotes from Kenny Williams so I guess he is attending. I am wondering what his role is. I hope Hahn has 100% control of the roster and is not still reliant on KW.

QUOTE (LDF @ Nov 12, 2014 -> 02:43 PM) man I keep on coming back to this post. I biggest burning question is at what salary will it take to sign him. Boston papers said minimum $40 mil for 5 years so I am guessing $10 Mil per year when bidding ends

Let's not forget that the 2014 White Sox finished middle of the pack in the AL in batting but the lower end in pitching and defense. Now an improved bullpen and the addition of Rodon should improve the pitching as long as Hahn can make some solid additions to the pen. But the Sox have to improve the defense as well. Sticking players in positions for their offense may still result in another poor season. It is okay to use 2015 as a rebuilding year if you think a player will grow into a position. But you are much better experimenting at the AAA level than costing ML games and it may help the young player as well from a pressure standpoint.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Nov 6, 2014 -> 08:31 PM) And from that list....Rasmus, Melky Cabrera, Morse, Torii Hunter, Nelson Cruz and Nick Markakis, good luck choosing from among them. M.Cabrera, Morse, Hunter (even at his age) and Cruz (except for the 2nd half decline) can obviously hit, but then your defense is not taking a step forward. We're building the anti-Royals, a diametrically opposed opposite if we were to trade Alexei. Markakis can sort of hit and sort of field, but not superior by any stretch at either, especially for the price tag. Then you have the Rasmus Enigma. Boston is peddling 3 corner outfielders ( Victorino, Craig and Cespedes but they want piching in return. Article in Providence paper today indicates Rasmus is probably the top FA corner since Markakis is probably returning to Baltimore. So Hahn may have to go trade route. Maybe Alexei and a prospect or two could bring a corner from someone.

QUOTE (scs787 @ Nov 2, 2014 -> 01:06 PM) Playing your top prospect= rebuilding? Huh, didn't know that. We should just trade him then. Have you noticed that the "top prospect" has not reached AAA yet and he has struggled defensively playing SS at A and AA levels???

Aoki has pretty much only played right field in his 3 years in ML. So he wouldn't be a great 4th outfielder. Now maybe Hahn wants Avi to play left and Aoki to play right. That could still leave Danks as the 4th outfielder and Viciedo sent packing

QUOTE (palehose23 @ Nov 1, 2014 -> 01:45 AM) Only 39 million from new players which gets you to the starting 2014 payroll I don't think the White Sox get Miller for 3/26. He is pretty well guaranteed $8 per year and Boston and Baltimore are at least involved. He said he will not give Boston a home town discount so my gut says the White Sox have to go 4/$40 to seperate themselves from more attractive situations for him.

QUOTE (Chilihead90 @ Oct 31, 2014 -> 09:59 PM) IMO, playoff experience only matters in a manager/coaching staff. They need to know how to use their players in those situations, especially the pitchers. Ozzie did pretty damn good with none as a manager his 1st time in.

QUOTE (Bigsoxhurt35 @ Oct 30, 2014 -> 03:12 PM) I'm fine with Noesi as a 5. Rodon hasn't pitched a major league inning also. Hope he pans out as he should. That leaves us with Danks. We're stuck with him. I would add one caveat. You really have to identify 6 starters. Many ML teams started this season with at least 1 starter out with an injury. In the White Sox case, I assume that #5 is Carrol until Rodon arrives. Everyone has Rodon arriving next year, including me, but if he doesn't you better have one solid option among Danks Noesi and Carrol.

QUOTE (flavum @ Oct 28, 2014 -> 12:39 PM) Does the Beckham PTBNL count? Daniel Nava for a minor league pitching prospect.

QUOTE (glangon @ Oct 28, 2014 -> 08:02 AM) I see us trading Matt Davidson away for starting pitching. As Tim Lincecum seems to be out of favour in San Francisco and Sandoval is out of contract. I reckon we could see Matt Davidson and Marcus Semien for Tim Lincecum as the 1st trade on November 23rd. Why would the Giants possibly want Semien when they have a young 2nd/SS combo already??? You would need to swap Semien for a young pitching prospect.

QUOTE (Eminor3rd @ Oct 27, 2014 -> 09:39 AM) WARNING: OPS Rant Omg why are people still citing OPS and treating it like it's a proxy for a player's overall value? Not only is OPS bad, but everyone is still tuned to the standards of the steroid era, when every outfielder had to be 800+. This is simply NOT representative of baseball today. Let's use numbers that (a) properly weight the constantly changing value relationship between OBP and SLG, and (b) are actually adjusted to the offensive era that we are in. 2014 Jason Heyward: 110 wRC+, +24.1 UZR, 5.4fWAR. This is a guy who hit 10% better than league average and played elite defense in 2014 -- in fact, almost as elite as you can possibly be. The result was an all-star caliber player. You would NOT expect the +25 UZR to be sustainable (though he's done it before in 2012), but since he's always been between +10 and +25, it's reasonable to expect a +10-15. And since the wRC+ is actually a touch BELOW his career of 117, there's no reason to believe he won't be sitting at 110-115 next year. And that would be an awesome season and he would be the best position player on our team, save Abreu. Please stop citing OPS, it's problematic. It gives us an inaccurate picture of the truth and we have better tools that are just as easy to find and utilize. Ok, I'm done. I'm sorry, GreenSox. I know I'm a jerk. The point about the one-year of control is huge, but for like three pages here it looks like everyone is talking about a trade being contingent on an extension. The part that makes it interesting is that his value would conceivably be lower than one might think simply because of the lack of control. I'm not sure how it would be affected if all involved parties knew that a handshake extension agreement was being made. Cancel the rant. Actually the Top 10 MLB players in WRC are the same top 10 in OPS. Guys like Eaton, DV, amd Conor all fall into the same range in both categories. I am sure there are some odd instances both ways but quick look tells you both stats are very similiar.

QUOTE (LDF @ Oct 27, 2014 -> 07:19 AM) while that is true, that is the beauty of a sports forum, to talk, argue, come up with some outlandish trades ideas. in other word Monday morning quarterbacking the team as the GM. it is all harmless and fun. you should hear some of my trade ideas, but I really don't want to get banned. for calling those who respond in the negative freaking idiots. I am hearing Joe Maddon to the Bears

QUOTE (Jake @ Oct 24, 2014 -> 03:02 PM) Managers just don't matter that much. I'm not too worried about it. Agree Look at Boston and John Farrell. First year he goes 97-65 and wins World Series. Brings back almost the same team and second year goes 71-91.

QUOTE (witesoxfan @ Oct 23, 2014 -> 09:07 AM) I don't mean this as an insult, but based on your offer for James Shields too, you honestly have no grasp of the current free agent market. A pitcher like Peavy would have signed for $6 mill a year like 10 years ago. One additional thought on Peavy. He is coming off a pretty rocky season and it appears he may be a 6 inning starter at this stage of his career. That will lower his value somewhat. But that also could be a problem coming back to the White Sox. If Rodon makes the roster at any point next year, it will surely be on a limited pitch count. Considering the bullpen, the Sox may need to find more of an inning eater for the RH starter they need to add.

QUOTE (caulfield12 @ Oct 23, 2014 -> 05:03 AM) Nope, he's likely to receive $10-12 million per season for 2 years. Also VERY likely to stay in the NL this time. Just a thought but if the Giants win, Peavy will have won 2 World Series titles in 2 years. But he has school age kids and the downside is he went from Chicago to Boston to SF in 2 straight seasons. I wonder if Peavy will want some family stability rather than money for the next contract???

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 22, 2014 -> 01:17 PM) Petricka was never that high of prospect, but i actually found it interesting that their peripherals weren't all that far apart. Reed's were better this year overall, best peripheral year of his career, but Petricka in his rookie year was comparable to how Reed was at his best with the White Sox. Petricka had a good rookie year. But I see him more as a set-up man than the closer. His K/BB ratio is pretty low in that he doesn't strike out a lot, his BA against is very average but he also does not give up many HR.

QUOTE (LDF @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 06:28 PM) the type of hitter, power hitter that Davidson is, is the kind of power hitters that was sought after. low avg hitter, high strike out, but will hit many hrs. Add in the lousy defense and it sounds like a poor man's version of Adam Dunn Hopefully Davidon is good in the clubhouse.

QUOTE (Balta1701 @ Oct 18, 2014 -> 11:58 AM) No, I just think that if they offer him arbitration they'll put themselves in a position where they're going to be stuck with him. But unless he is traded for a corner OF, Hahn may be forced to keep him. I don't think there is a legit corner OF on the 40 man or at AAA that is a better option. So until the Sox add that person, they will hold on to Viciedo. It probably makes most sense to pencil him in as a DH while they look for a corner and a DH hopefully both LH. Once both are found, then Viciedo is expendable as long as you can find someone who will take him.

QUOTE (LDF @ Oct 17, 2014 -> 08:22 AM) what will the sox do if all 3, Sanchez, Johnson and Semien have a good spring? DEFENSE-DEFENSE-DEFENSE.. Probably Sanchez gets the nod.

QUOTE (NorthSideSox72 @ Oct 15, 2014 -> 12:12 PM) Among catcher talk, I just want to throw this in... there have been numerous signs in the past year that the Sox are not enamored with Phegley's approach and attitude. It is possible he's changed that, but he was benched midway through a game and through a second game in Charlotte during the season. And his defense is still a struggle. My point is, if I had to guess, I don't think he's in the org next year, let alone in the majors. I'd bet the org is happier with Nieto and even Smith as possible 2015 backup options than they are with Phegley. Not sure that is true. Below quote in September could be Hahn blowing smoke but September 4, 2014, 8:47 PM White Sox general manager Rick Hahn said this week Josh Phegley "forced himself back into the conversation" about Sox catchers with the work he did with Triple-A Charlotte this season.

QUOTE (StRoostifer @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 07:56 PM) Belt: I don't know what his value is so its difficult to say. I don't see the Giants trading Belt since they will lose Morse to FA, they can just play Belt in LF. As much as I like the idea of Belt, I think its more a pipe dream than anything. As for Hanley, I agree. I only mentioned 2B due to his speed and the possible desire for the Sox to play Semien at 3B. As for the farm guys you listed. I agree they hold little to no value at this point but could serve as a PTBN in a trade, the type that tips the scale just enough for the other teams GM to bite. Semien was worse than Gillaspie at 3B. 10 errors in 31 games is a red flag that he would at least need a full season in AAA learning 3B if that is what management plans for him.

QUOTE (greg775 @ Oct 14, 2014 -> 11:51 AM) I'll keep it short: I don't think you should trade a guy if there's absolutely no one to replace him. Reed was a suitable closer. I happen to think he was a good 25-year-old closer (40 saves in 2013), many say he was average to bad in spite of his save totals. The same people say Hahn had a replacement in Nate Jones, who got hurt. I feel about Jones the way many feel about Reed, that he was never the answer. The guy the Sox got for Reed (Davidson) doesn't bother me near as much as we traded a guy who was not effectively replaced. I think the Sox reached 2 over .500 at one point after a good amount of games this past season despite having no bullpen. My contention is not having a closer and other bullpen pieces finally was the reason this team got buried back into oblivion. Yes, I'd feel a lot different about the trade if Nate Jones replaced Reed and been lights out with 30-50 saves. In actuality, nobody replaced Reed. As far as Davidson, he appears to be a huge bust, but some insist he had to be devastated after not getting the job in spring training and it sent him into a season-long tailspin. Maybe he'll make the team next spring training and be the answer at third for 10-15 years to come. We shall see. I am not a Reed hater, though. Even though many on here say he sucks, I like his save totals. So what if he has some shaky saves. So does Greg Holland of the Royals. He puts guys on base in many of his saves but usually gets the save. So far I'd say Arizona won the trade; that could change if Davidson turns into a good to great hitter/fielder. Greg: A couple of thoughts 1. If Hahn felt the Sox were far from ready to compete, I can see trading a young( average) closer for a good 3B prospect. But I felt Reed was better than average and Davidson was maybe a better than average prospect. Usually you get a premium back when trading pitching and the Sox did not 2. If Davidson's major decline was caused by being devastated as some have said, I would say that is a big concern. If he ever arrives in the majors and has a slump the Sox will need to keep him away from bridges and tall buildings. 3. Maybe Jones was the heir apparent. But too many posters on this site just assume that anyone can close. Besides "stuff" which Jones may have there is also the mental approach. Until a set-up guy can demonstrate the ability to close games he is not a closer. Matt Thornton and Daniel Bard are two examples that come to mind quickly.