Potential + Effects of the World Series?

[caulfield12]

I gotta agree with Captain here. From everything I've read the payroll concerns on the N. Side have been vastly over stated and probably emerged mostly out of the wake of the Wilbon's exposure in the Maddon ponzi scheme.

 

Is Rickets the most liquid and well financed owner in MLB? Nah, probably not even close. But the asset he's sitting on just probably increased it's value by 15-30%. If he wants to leverage that into a higher payroll I'd imagine he'll find a way.

 

It didn't stop them from quickly building the best team in MLB so how the hell is it an issue going forward now that Rickets just turned the Cubs into a money tree? If they weren't before, they sure as s*** are now.

 

Not to mention the potential collateral of that Cubs' Network...see McCourts with the Dodgers trying to separate out just the parking rights and borrow against that from future anticipated revenues.

 

Then you've got the forthcoming mint known as the entertainment complex that will print additional money.

[chitownsportsfan]

If that number has changed as was previously claimed, that makes a large different to the bottom line of the team. The difference could be the room to pay Mike Trout or Clayton Kershaw's most expensive years, in additional annual revenue, per YEAR.

 

And the world series just increased the value of the Cubs by the entire value of that hypothetical Trout contract.

 

Yet you want to sit here and argue that the Cubs are going to be substantially hindered. Have fun I'll go hit a tennis ball against a wall, it's better for my health.

[southsider2k5]

And the world series just increased the value of the Cubs by the entire value of that hypothetical Trout contract.

 

Yet you want to sit here and argue that the Cubs are going to be substantially hindered. Have fun I'll go hit a tennis ball against a wall, it's better for my health.

 

If you want to argue that $30ish million in free money doesn't make a difference to the Cubs, go ahead and play with that ball.

 

If the original poster has some actual knowledge of the dollar difference involved here, I would like to know it.

[caulfield12]

If you want to argue that $30ish million in free money doesn't make a difference to the Cubs, go ahead and play with that ball.

 

If the original poster has some actual knowledge of the dollar difference involved here, I would like to know it.

http://www.bleachernation.com/2014/03/19/t...business-plans/

 

Look at debt and required service payments about halfway down.

 

Worst case scenario (and it's financially prudent, regardless) is that $30-35 million causes them to pass on an Arrieta extension. It's actually in their favor to use that financial prudence argument with fans, like the Cardinals with Pujols.

 

Between 2019 (tv rights money blows up), anticipated increase in franchise value, the entertainment complex and most of the rooftop stuff being over, they won't have to worry about anything other than allocating money efficiently (see Epstein's bad deals in Boston, the Yankees, Pujols/Hamilton/Wilson/Weaver/Vernon Wells with the Angels and now the Dodgers with their current owners and multi billion dollar tv deal).

 

It's not going to be what derails them. That would be major pitching injuries or non performance, not unlike the White Sox dealt with...remember, they had McCarthy as an "extra starter" in 2006 after Javy was added and eventually dealt him for Danks.

 

Between Schwarber, Russell, Baez, Contreras, Almora, Soler, Edwards Jr....they have plenty of young position player depth to deal from. Unless the Pirates can pressure them, they won't have to win 100+ games every season, either. They also don't have another owner in the division like Ilitch in the AL Central creating additional/artificial competition with elevated payrolls.

Edited November 3, 2016 by caulfield12

[Hatchetman]

Cubs have big name financial institutions behind them. Do you think they assumed the Cubs would win the World Series when they lent them the dough? No. They would have assumed a historic level of cash flow. Lenders don't assume a "best case" scenario. The Cubs are making way more money than they need to meet debt obligations.

[Dick Allen]

Cubs have big name financial institutions behind them. Do you think they assumed the Cubs would win the World Series when they lent them the dough? No. They would have assumed a historic level of cash flow. Lenders don't assume a "best case" scenario. The Cubs are making way more money than they need to meet debt obligations.

They are OK now but they were in trouble 2 or3 years ago. The guy that owns the South Bend team bought 20% of the team for 300 million. They use that to pay off a lot of the construction.

 

the guy who was the beat writer in the Sun Times Gordon something, used to always come on and said a few times the banks with the loans were pressuring Ricketts to sell the team. Not just a minority stake.

[iamshack]

Gordon Wittenmyer Just Took a Financial Dump on the Ricketts Family's Ownership of the Cubs

They are OK now but they were in trouble 2 or3 years ago. The guy that owns the South Bend team bought 20% of the team for 300 million. They use that to pay off a lot of the construction.

 

the guy who was the beat writer in the Sun Times Gordon something, used to always come on and said a few times the banks with the loans were pressuring Ricketts to sell the team. Not just a minority stake.

[Lip Man 1]

LOL. JR must have been the mastermind of that. Some quick research shows the teams would split roughly 30% of the gate. Of course cubs would get 100% of concessions. My ticket prices of $150 I think were way low, so the Cubs must have made out quite nicely.

 

One of the coaches here at Idaho State flew to Chicago over the weekend and paid $800 dollars for a fourth row seat in the left field bleachers for Sunday. She also grabbed a BP home run.

 

$800 dollars!

 

Mark

[LittleHurt05]

One of the coaches here at Idaho State flew to Chicago over the weekend and paid $800 dollars for a fourth row seat in the left field bleachers for Sunday. She also grabbed a BP home run.

 

$800 dollars!

 

Mark

 

That's only cause the Cubs were down 3-1. That ticket would have cost over $2000 on Friday or Saturday.

 

Either way, that is a secondary market price, not face value going to the Cubs.

[captain54]

You and I have very different views on evidence apparently. I mean there are a ton of non sequitors in the post that sound great and compelling together, but none of that is the actual point.

 

The same guy that said the Cubs were the dominant ball team in Chicago in the late 50s and 60s is a stickler for "facts"

 

Thanks for making my night. Have a lovely evening

 

[soxforlife05]

The Cubs will probably win another 2 World Series in the next 5 years. They will be like the Yankees of the late 90's. I really doubt any debt will hurt them that ballclub is a gold mine.

[caulfield12]

http://thefieldsofgreen.com/2014/10/02/how...mlb-franchises/

 

This is a 2014 article that puts the additional value of making the post-season at $20-30 million.

Just for FOX Sports alone, it was estimated at $20 million for advertising revenues.

 

 

So you've got:

 

Substantial Increase in Franchise Valuation, by a factor of 10-15% if not a 25% increase overall

The looming ability to borrow against values derived from a windfall broadcasting rights deal

$35-50 million from the post-season appearance, additional season ticket sales, merchandising/concessions

Entertainment Complex will start generating revenues

Settling of the rooftops issue, to a large extent

 

They're not far from a point where they will have a Cubs Hall of Fame museum or statue park with Fergie Jenkins, Maddux, Sandberg, etc., statues soon to come.

 

Maddon and Epstein under contract into the future, two of the best in the game.

 

 

 

“Got through the tough times,” Epstein said, and he started talking about when, in his first year, the Cubs took out a full-page ad in a newspaper trying to sell individual-game tickets, accidentally transposed two digits in the 1-800 number listed and ended up sending prospective customers to a phone-sex line. Ricketts laughed. Those were the old Cubs. Today they could call themselves champions.

 

Early in the game, two fans sitting near Epstein were harassing him and his family. He asked them to stop. They refused. He summoned security. Before being escorted out, a woman doused Epstein and his son with a cup of beer.

 

“He made sure I knew right away it wasn’t about one person,” Ricketts said. “It was about the organization. We talked about how you treat people and the right people will create success. It takes time. It won’t come overnight. He’s honest with everybody everywhere he goes. He’s also not in any way some kind of crazy dictator,” Ricketts said. “He just leads the right way. What I realized early on is the quantitative stuff is there, but that’s not a key. The key for him is hiring the right people and helping them get to the right decisions. And each of those decisions is what built this team.”

 

http://sports.yahoo.com/news/how-theo-epst...-155257017.html

 

 

 

 

[southsider2k5]

The same guy that said the Cubs were the dominant ball team in Chicago in the late 50s and 60s is a stickler for "facts"

 

Thanks for making my night. Have a lovely evening

 

So that is my answer. You are just back to making stuff up again.

[greg775]

I'll address the topic name: The Cubs are a goldmine. If they keep the same GM and scouting team and same owner they are in great shape to pretty much at least do what the Blackhawks did. Wasn't that three titles in six years?

The Cubs actually can improve next year and likely will easily repeat. Why? A crappy Indians team took them to seven games. The Cubs 'almost' blew that series despite having much more talent than Cleveland. They actually shouldn't be fat and happy next year cause of how they almost blew it this time. It's risky falling behind 3 to 1. Indians could have scraped out one win in the last three games.

 

My guess is Cubs have their best season of the dynasty next season. Then the following year they miss the playoffs. Then they go nuts in free agency, etc. and either win two of the next three or one of the next three. I'll say two. So IMO the Cubs will win it four of six years counting this year.

 

The big question is ... can the Sox actually get its act together and face them in the WS one of those years?? Sox actually have 'some' talent. Where they are blowing it is settling for crap managers (Robin) and run of the mill/average managers at best in Renteria. That hurts. Also very poor GM work. Now is it just luck that the GM moves have reeked or do our GMs suck? I'll say bad luck and give us the benefit of the doubt. Some of the moves looked good on paper.

 

I do think the Sox have a chance to make the WS in one of the next five seasons where we 'could' play the Cubs. It's up to the Sox, really. They are pissing away the Sale/Q era thus far.

Edited November 4, 2016 by greg775

[caulfield12]

The White Sox have little chance (assuming payrolls stay the same or slightly less) without leveraging Sale and/or Quintana for packages like the Indians received for Bartolo Colon (Sizemore, Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips). Basically, you've got to get at least TWO regulars that are 2.5-3.5 WAR (or more) for that one player, if not three. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense. Greinke for Cain/Alcides Escobar is yet another example.

 

 

The Cubs' main risks will be in the bullpen (do they go after Jansen or give the job back to Rondon/Strop/Edwards?)...and the health of the starting rotation, whether Hendricks can sustain his success (expecting another ERA title is foolhardy), but they have numerous plausible ways to cushion the back end of the rotation by trading spare parts and/or adding salary in June/July trades.

 

They absolutely don't have to do much more than target 90-93 wins to outlast the Cards/Pirates, who are both in transitional phases (the Cardinals just cut loose Holliday, the Pirates have to decide what to do with McCutcheon and already traded Melancon). Obviously, their target next season will be 105+ wins, with Arrieta possibly in his last season and Lester perhaps in his final "prime" season before his career arc turns downwards again.

 

Assuming they let Arrieta go after 2017, there are a number of decent options on the FA pitching market, compared to this year.

 

 

The other danger is losing key front office personnel like Hoyer, McLeod, Randy Bush or Shiraz Rehman, but those guys aren't irreplaceable...every aspiring young baseball exec in the industry would die to work for the World Champion Cubs (for free or even pay for the privilege) and learn under the mentoring of Epstein/Maddon, etc.

 

 

[greg775]

The White Sox have little chance (assuming payrolls stay the same or slightly less) without leveraging Sale and/or Quintana for packages like the Indians received for Bartolo Colon (Sizemore, Cliff Lee, Brandon Phillips). Basically, you've got to get at least TWO regulars that are 2.5-3.5 WAR (or more) for that one player, if not three. Otherwise, it doesn't make any sense. Greinke for Cain/Alcides Escobar is yet another example.

 

 

The Cubs' main risks will be in the bullpen (do they go after Jansen or give the job back to Rondon/Strop/Edwards?)...and the health of the starting rotation, whether Hendricks can sustain his success (expecting another ERA title is foolhardy), but they have numerous plausible ways to cushion the back end of the rotation by trading spare parts and/or adding salary in June/July trades.

 

They absolutely don't have to do much more than target 90-93 wins to outlast the Cards/Pirates, who are both in transitional phases (the Cardinals just cut loose Holliday, the Pirates have to decide what to do with McCutcheon and already traded Melancon). Obviously, their target next season will be 105+ wins, with Arrieta possibly in his last season and Lester perhaps in his final "prime" season before his career arc turns downwards again.

 

Assuming they let Arrieta go after 2017, there are a number of decent options on the FA pitching market, compared to this year.

 

 

The other danger is losing key front office personnel like Hoyer, McLeod, Randy Bush or Shiraz Rehman, but those guys aren't irreplaceable...every aspiring young baseball exec in the industry would die to work for the World Champion Cubs (for free or even pay for the privilege) and learn under the mentoring of Epstein/Maddon, etc.

Why do you think Chapman will go elsewhere? Why do you think they let Arrieta go after 2017? They are loaded with $$$. If they were smart, they would market the hell out of jerseys for Christmas. How many million jerseys could they sell for 50 bucks a jersey? Probably 80 percent of folks in Chicago who follow sports would LOVE a Cubs Christmas gift, expensive CLOTHING. If the Cubs blow this, they are morons. My gosh, the marketing should begin now hot and heavy, advertising HOW to purchase this stuff. Such as easy gift. Cubs sweaters, T shirts, JERSEYS, umbrellas, coffee mugs. My gosh they have to get the WS stuff ready to go now.

Edited November 4, 2016 by greg775

[Y2Jimmy0]

Why do you think Chapman will go elsewhere? Why do you think they let Arrieta go after 2017? They are loaded with $$$. If they were smart, they would market the hell out of jerseys for Christmas. How many million jerseys could they sell for 50 bucks a jersey? Probably 80 percent of folks in Chicago who follow sports would LOVE a Cubs Christmas gift, expensive CLOTHING. If the Cubs blow this, they are morons. My gosh, the marketing should begin now hot and heavy, advertising HOW to purchase this stuff. Such as easy gift. Cubs sweaters, T shirts, JERSEYS, umbrellas, coffee mugs. My gosh they have to get the WS stuff ready to go now.

 

 

It is pretty much assumed that Chapman will go back to the Yankees. I honestly expect the Cubs to trade Arrieta this offseason. It's a great time to cash in. They aren't giving him a 7 year deal and they can get some great young pitching for 1 year of Arrieta. They just won the World Series as well so they'd get very little criticism of the move.

[shago]

Maybe the effect is that we too can get an awesome song like 'Go Cubs Go'

 

Today is going to be unbearable

[shago]

short answer: we're boned.

... and bored

[Balta1701]

Maybe the effect is that we too can get an awesome song like 'Go Cubs Go'

 

Today is going to be unbearable

[greg775]

<!--quoteo(post=3443168:date=Nov 4, 2016 -> 10:08 AM:name=La Marr Hoyt HOF)-->

<!--quotec-->Maybe the effect is that we too can get an awesome song like 'Go Cubs Go'

 

Today is going to be unbearable

Is this song real? Where did you find this?

[southsideirish71]

Is this song real? Where did you find this?

 

You must not have paid too much attention during the 2005 season.

[LittleHurt05]

Is this song real? Where did you find this?

 

Are you serious Greg? You have really never heard this song before?

[BigSqwert]

You must not have paid too much attention during the 2005 season.

 

 

Are you serious Greg? You have really never heard this song before?

They only played it 12 million times in 2005. Cut him some slack.

Edited November 5, 2016 by BigSqwert

[greg775]

Are you serious Greg? You have really never heard this song before?

I never saw it. Never heard of it. And I assure you I followed every game regular season and postseason in 05. Pretty much every season since then and before then. I haven't slacked off in my interest in the Sox.