I sort of agree. I will be surprised if he's moved just because I don't see a market, but it's weird Hahn would go out of his way to say Abreu/Garcia are available.

 

It is the same thing he has said about everyone for years now.

It is the same thing he has said about everyone for years now.

 

I don't recall him mentioning specific players like this. There's a difference, imo, between saying everyone is available and mentioning specific guys.

I don't recall him mentioning specific players like this. There's a difference, imo, between saying everyone is available and mentioning specific guys.

 

I don't think the context was him saying it unprompted, but answering a question about the named players.

He has always said everyone is available if the price is right, but he specifically questioned whether the timing with Abreu and Avi and their contracts fit the White Sox schedule.

 

In the meeting I was at he talked about diminished returns in 1B/DH types Abreu's age and specifically mentioned that leadership is big, but it doesn't trump production. He made it seem an extension would have to be really team friendly.

 

With Avi, he questioned whether selling him off now wasn't the most prudent. He either stays a really good player which would make him expensive and a risk to sign elsewhere, or he goes back to being what he was and it would be an opportunity lost.

 

The thing is, trading these guys doesn't mean you can't bring them back when they become free agents if you want. You just miss their production when you really aren't playing to win. And it opens up opportunities for younger players.

Edited November 1, 20178 yr by Dick Allen

He has always said everyone is available if the price is right, but he specifically questioned whether the timing with Abreu and Avi and their contracts fit the White Sox schedule.

 

In the meeting I was at he talked about diminished returns in 1B/DH types Abreu's age and specifically mentioned that leadership is big, but it doesn't trump production. He made it seem an extension would have to be really team friendly.

 

With Avi, he questioned whether selling him off now wasn't the most prudent. He either stays a really good player which would make him expensive and a risk to sign elsewhere, or he goes back to being what he was and it would be an opportunity lost.

 

The thing is, trading these guys doesn't mean you can't bring them back when they become free agents if you want. You just miss their production when you really aren't playing to win. And it opens up opportunities for younger players.

 

That's a pretty interesting takeaway, I've long thought they want him to be a White Sox lifer. That is quite the contrary.

That's a pretty interesting takeaway, I've long thought they want him to be a White Sox lifer. That is quite the contrary.

I'm sure they would, but at their price.

 

How many times on this board have we read Abreu is cooked? When his control expires and he's a couple of years older, do you want to pay him even more for another 4,5 or 6 years? Who really knows?

 

Plus, you could pull a Chapman and bring him back when you are truly ready to win, maybe with the guy(s) you get for him a big part of the team as well.

I expect this to be the most boring offseason since 2012-2013 when basically the only move we did was sign Keppinger.

 

-I'd love to sell high on Avi but kind of doubt the market values him.

 

-I would want the Sox to sign a good pitcher with their value down that they could possibly dish off. I don't think they will do this. I'd think they do some scrap heap type guy and run with the youngins but someone is going to get hurt and with our payroll so low we could afford to gamble on a move that is a better version of the Derek Holland move from last year. Someone like Cobb/Buchholz/Chatwood/Pineda.

 

-What I think the Sox will do and should do is spend big on the bullpen. I think they should put a lot of money into the bullpen. Even if it takes a 3 year deal for a good arm.

 

Past that, let's be active on international free agents for the lineup. This is the perfect year to take a relative risk on a type of move that offers the potential for big surplus value.

I still think the first pitcher they grab will be a rule 5 draft acquisition.

I expect this to be the most boring offseason since 2012-2013 when basically the only move we did was sign Keppinger.

 

-I'd love to sell high on Avi but kind of doubt the market values him.

 

-I would want the Sox to sign a good pitcher with their value down that they could possibly dish off. I don't think they will do this. I'd think they do some scrap heap type guy and run with the youngins but someone is going to get hurt and with our payroll so low we could afford to gamble on a move that is a better version of the Derek Holland move from last year. Someone like Cobb/Buchholz/Chatwood/Pineda.

 

-What I think the Sox will do and should do is spend big on the bullpen. I think they should put a lot of money into the bullpen. Even if it takes a 3 year deal for a good arm.

 

Past that, let's be active on international free agents for the lineup. This is the perfect year to take a relative risk on a type of move that offers the potential for big surplus value.

 

I am with you on all but this. We are still in the penalty phase for 2018, so there isn't going to be much to load up on.

I am with you on all but this. We are still in the penalty phase for 2018, so there isn't going to be much to load up on.

Are there any veterans coming from anywhere who aren't subject to the rules for youth? I don't believe Yuli Gurriel was subject to them because of age, anyone like that?

You're right, but I think Dunning could be a good starting piece.

 

 

 

I think a veteran presence and one with better defensive numbers can be better. Narvaez hits and has a good eye, but he doesn't hit for any power and we know everyone complains about his framing.

 

 

What would you do?

Continue to develop the prospects that make up the top farm system in baseball and maybe bring in a flier starter like Bucholz or Pineda for cheap and hope to flip them by August

 

Other than that, call up prospects when ready, develop, and get ready to spend BIG next fall on names like Machado, Kimbrel/Miller, Cody Allen/Kelvin Herrera, and little less on a guy like Carter Capps

 

'19 Rotation: Kopech, Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Hansen

'19 Lineup: SS Anderson, 2B Moncada, 3B Machado, 1B Abreu, LF Jimenez, RF Garcia, DH Delmonico, C Collins, CF Leury

'19 Pen: Kimbrel/Miller, Allen/Herrera, Capps, Burdi, Guerrero, Fulmer, Adams (Any starter prospects that don't work out)

'19 Bench: C Narvaez, 1B/3B Davidson, INF Sanchez, U Cordell

I expect this to be the most boring offseason since 2012-2013 when basically the only move we did was sign Keppinger.

 

-I'd love to sell high on Avi but kind of doubt the market values him.

 

-I would want the Sox to sign a good pitcher with their value down that they could possibly dish off. I don't think they will do this. I'd think they do some scrap heap type guy and run with the youngins but someone is going to get hurt and with our payroll so low we could afford to gamble on a move that is a better version of the Derek Holland move from last year. Someone like Cobb/Buchholz/Chatwood/Pineda.

 

-What I think the Sox will do and should do is spend big on the bullpen. I think they should put a lot of money into the bullpen. Even if it takes a 3 year deal for a good arm.

 

Past that, let's be active on international free agents for the lineup. This is the perfect year to take a relative risk on a type of move that offers the potential for big surplus value.

 

Any names jump out to you as good fits? Mike Minor could be an interesting target if he's really healthy, he was fantastic this year.

Edited November 1, 20178 yr by Dunt

Any names jump out to you as good fits? Mike Minor could be an interesting target if he's really healthy, he was fantastic this year.

In '19 Kimbrel, Miller, Allen, Herrera are all FAs

 

I agree on spending big on bullpen considering the Sox are very sound or set elsewhere, so grab a franchise guy like Machado and some big name relievers

 

Firm believer the only way to win now is to follow the path of the Cubs, Astros, Yankees, etc.

I'm still hoping that I wake up in the morning this off season and find out that JR has sold the team. Hopefully when JR leaves he can take Hahn with him.

I'm still hoping that I wake up in the morning this off season and find out that JR has sold the team. Hopefully when JR leaves he can take Hahn with him.

 

You are probably the only person on this entire site that has real issue with Rick Hahn.

You are probably the only person on this entire site that has real issue with Rick Hahn.

 

So you could say he was going after Hahn, solo?

I'm still hoping that I wake up in the morning this off season and find out that JR has sold the team. Hopefully when JR leaves he can take Hahn with him.

 

 

Keep dreaming, keep repeating the same tripe...not happening unless JR has a serious health issue.

He has always said everyone is available if the price is right, but he specifically questioned whether the timing with Abreu and Avi and their contracts fit the White Sox schedule.

 

In the meeting I was at he talked about diminished returns in 1B/DH types Abreu's age and specifically mentioned that leadership is big, but it doesn't trump production. He made it seem an extension would have to be really team friendly.

 

With Avi, he questioned whether selling him off now wasn't the most prudent. He either stays a really good player which would make him expensive and a risk to sign elsewhere, or he goes back to being what he was and it would be an opportunity lost.

 

The thing is, trading these guys doesn't mean you can't bring them back when they become free agents if you want. You just miss their production when you really aren't playing to win. And it opens up opportunities for younger players.

I'm amazed that Hahn apparently has bought into the philosophy that the only players you want on your team are young, young, young (judging from his Avi and Abreu comments as relayed by Dick Allen). At least young position players. We'll see if he adds any veteran pitchers for our contending teams. I contend you need at least a few veterans like Avi/Abreu but I guess I'm wrong.

BTW let's see if Hahn can ever put together a complete team. Even if our young guys excel which I hope they do, we need some creativity in adding enough effective bullpen pieces and putting together a team at least average defensively to win anything of note.

If I were GM ... I'd concede we have all star to superstar type players aboard in Eloy and Moncada, Avi and Abreu. I'd suggest we have enough pitching for Cooper to put together a WS starting rotation. We will not win anything though, without defense that rates a 7 out of 10 and bullpen that rates 8 of 10. And we could use a stellar catcher.

Go to work, Mr. Hahn. Your work has just begun.

Edited November 1, 20178 yr by greg775

So you could say he was going after Hahn, solo?

 

I do believe you win the internet today.

I'm amazed that Hahn apparently has bought into the philosophy that the only players you want on your team are young, young, young (judging from his Avi and Abreu comments as relayed by Dick Allen). At least young position players. We'll see if he adds any veteran pitchers for our contending teams. I contend you need at least a few veterans like Avi/Abreu but I guess I'm wrong.

BTW let's see if Hahn can ever put together a complete team. Even if our young guys excel which I hope they do, we need some creativity in adding enough effective bullpen pieces and putting together a team at least average defensively to win anything of note.

If I were GM ... I'd concede we have all star to superstar type players aboard in Eloy and Moncada, Avi and Abreu. I'd suggest we have enough pitching for Cooper to put together a WS starting rotation. We will not win anything though, without defense that rates a 7 out of 10 and bullpen that rates 8 of 10. And we could use a stellar catcher.

Go to work, Mr. Hahn. Your work has just begun.

 

 

Greg, the issue is Avisail and Abreu's contracts. THey each have two years left. What Hahn needs to figure out is whether they should extend or trade either player. The worst case scenario would be to do nothing in this instance. My guess is that they try and trade Garcia this winter and lock up Abreu to a 4 year extension.

Continue to develop the prospects that make up the top farm system in baseball and maybe bring in a flier starter like Bucholz or Pineda for cheap and hope to flip them by August

 

Other than that, call up prospects when ready, develop, and get ready to spend BIG next fall on names like Machado, Kimbrel/Miller, Cody Allen/Kelvin Herrera, and little less on a guy like Carter Capps

 

'19 Rotation: Kopech, Rodon, Giolito, Lopez, Hansen

'19 Lineup: SS Anderson, 2B Moncada, 3B Machado, 1B Abreu, LF Jimenez, RF Garcia, DH Delmonico, C Collins, CF Leury

'19 Pen: Kimbrel/Miller, Allen/Herrera, Capps, Burdi, Guerrero, Fulmer, Adams (Any starter prospects that don't work out)

'19 Bench: C Narvaez, 1B/3B Davidson, INF Sanchez, U Cordell

I wouldn't count on Rodon for anything going forward. He just had shoulder surgery, and even though there was no structural damage, nobody knows how it will respond. At best, I'd pencil him in as a LOOGY or late inning reliever, or 5th starter.

Lol Rodon will not be a LOOGY

Lol Rodon will not be a LOOGY

You just don't know until he pitches next August. We have no idea what kind of stuff he'll have.

You are probably the only person on this entire site that has real issue with Rick Hahn.

 

He's a spy from the Cubs planted in 2000, knowing they'd need someone to help tear down the World Champion White Sox and trade an ace to a decade after that to bolster their own odds!

 

IT'S SO SIMPLE.

He's a spy from the Cubs planted in 2000, knowing they'd need someone to help tear down the World Champion White Sox and trade an ace to a decade after that to bolster their own odds!

 

IT'S SO SIMPLE.

Oh, is that the poster that's been bashing on Hahn for growing up on the north side as a cub fan and so on? Forgot who that was.

You just don't know until he pitches next August. We have no idea what kind of stuff he'll have.

That's why the "at best he is a LOOGY or 5th starter" comment you made is silly.