TheFutureIsNear Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Trading for Marco to eat innings the rest of this season, letting him compete for the 5th spot next year/lefty long man out of the pen absolutely makes sense to me....just a matter what the price is obviously. Hard to predict a trade when all of our middle/late prospects are either very recent draft picks or older guys no one really wants. Does Alec Hansen’s name still hold any value? + 1 of Micker/Basabe/Walker? Too much? Not enough? Really hard to tell Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 How did Q (billed at least as a #2 when with us) become someone who wouldn’t even slot in a big league rotation in the form of Gonzales when their stats and fWAR are quite comparable...Marco was something like 29th? From pitching at Safeco in obscurity? Let’s not forget that the competition in the AL West (Astros, A’s, Rangers and Angels) is a heckuva lot better than our own top-heavy division which includes 3 of the worst 8 teams in baseball. In my book, that would make him the #2 for the White Sox heading into 2020...and we still haven’t seen how Giolito going to finish out these last two months. And sure, theoretically Kopech should be higher in the end, but he has to prove it first. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BackDoorBreach Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 This guy has never pitched over 170 innings and has a career H/9 of almost ten. This would not be a good move unless you want him to be some kind of swing man, working mostly from the pen. I wouldn't give up anything valuable at all for him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 2 hours ago, caulfield12 said: How did Q (billed at least as a #2 when with us) become someone who wouldn’t even slot in a big league rotation in the form of Gonzales when their stats and fWAR are quite comparable...Marco was something like 29th? From pitching at Safeco in obscurity? Let’s not forget that the competition in the AL West (Astros, A’s, Rangers and Angels) is a heckuva lot better than our own top-heavy division which includes 3 of the worst 8 teams in baseball. In my book, that would make him the #2 for the White Sox heading into 2020...and we still haven’t seen how Giolito going to finish out these last two months. And sure, theoretically Kopech should be higher in the end, but he has to prove it first. It might have something to do with the fact that Quintana had a 4 year stretch without a WAR under 4 while Marco has never had a 4+ WAR season in his career but besides that they're like totally the same. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 1 hour ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: It might have something to do with the fact that Quintana had a 4 year stretch without a WAR under 4 while Marco has never had a 4+ WAR season in his career but besides that they're like totally the same. Umm...Quintana’s 2017 and 2018=5.7 Gonzales has been worth 6.2 the last 1 1/2 seasons. And counting. It was pretty clear for most of 2017 he wasn’t the same pitcher before the trade. He was actually sporting an fWAR pretty similar to exactly where Gonzales is right now. For those months, we were monitoring his every start and fretting his value had been significantly decreased, his stuff wasn’t quite as crisp...maybe the trade rumors were bothering him, etc. Epstein didn’t properly evaluate him and went mostly by his 2012-2016 record...it’s the opposite of Nationals trading for Eaton and basing it on his one season where he was over a 5. How did that work out for them? Just like nobody will trade for Jose Abreu today and go off what he did in 2014-16. Realistically, Quintana was closer to a 2/3 at that moment than a 1/2...and now he’s a 3/4. And career-wise, he’s at least trending upwards or in a positive direction rather than the opposite. Everyone can probably agree that would be a very useful piece for the White Sox to stabilize the back of the rotation, and he won’t be nearly as expensive in arbitration as what they’re going to overpay in free agency with every team chasing the same 15 pitchers. With the Sox seemingly more interested in saving than spending money, a $1 million 2020 salary and three arbitration seasons is quite attractive. That allows them to easily spend the big money on Cole, Wheeler, Strasburg, Bumgarner, etc. It also guarantees they won’t end up with table scraps in February and March. Edited July 29, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 13 hours ago, TheFutureIsNear said: Trading for Marco to eat innings the rest of this season, letting him compete for the 5th spot next year/lefty long man out of the pen absolutely makes sense to me....just a matter what the price is obviously. Hard to predict a trade when all of our middle/late prospects are either very recent draft picks or older guys no one really wants. Does Alec Hansen’s name still hold any value? + 1 of Micker/Basabe/Walker? Too much? Not enough? Really hard to tell Yeah I actually would like this, but definitely don’t really know price. It doesn’t feel like many contenders are looking for a mid season addition of a guy like this. But do not overpay for additional control at the deadline. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superstar Lamar Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Four pages of discussion for another Kinander rumor? Suckers 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 18 minutes ago, Superstar Lamar said: Four pages of discussion for another Kinander rumor? Suckers trade winds should be strictly moderated to only allow people to discuss trades that will go through. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 2 hours ago, caulfield12 said: Umm...Quintana’s 2017 and 2018=5.7 Gonzales has been worth 6.2 the last 1 1/2 seasons. And counting. It was pretty clear for most of 2017 he wasn’t the same pitcher before the trade. He was actually sporting an fWAR pretty similar to exactly where Gonzales is right now. For those months, we were monitoring his every start and fretting his value had been significantly decreased, his stuff wasn’t quite as crisp...maybe the trade rumors were bothering him, etc. Epstein didn’t properly evaluate him and went mostly by his 2012-2016 record...it’s the opposite of Nationals trading for Eaton and basing it on his one season where he was over a 5. How did that work out for them? Just like nobody will trade for Jose Abreu today and go off what he did in 2014-16. Realistically, Quintana was closer to a 2/3 at that moment than a 1/2...and now he’s a 3/4. And career-wise, he’s at least trending upwards or in a positive direction rather than the opposite. Everyone can probably agree that would be a very useful piece for the White Sox to stabilize the back of the rotation, and he won’t be nearly as expensive in arbitration as what they’re going to overpay in free agency with every team chasing the same 15 pitchers. With the Sox seemingly more interested in saving than spending money, a $1 million 2020 salary and three arbitration seasons is quite attractive. That allows them to easily spend the big money on Cole, Wheeler, Strasburg, Bumgarner, etc. It also guarantees they won’t end up with table scraps in February and March. Cool story but you tried to say Quintana and Marco were the same when Quintana had a top 10 WAR over a 4 year period and Marco is no where near that level of production . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 5 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said: Cool story but you tried to say Quintana and Marco were the same when Quintana had a top 10 WAR over a 4 year period and Marco is no where near that level of production . If it’s not Gonzales, who are the two pitchers we can realistically get...because we're going to need at least two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 15 minutes ago, caulfield12 said: If it’s not Gonzales, who are the two pitchers we can realistically get...because we're going to need at least two? Starting Pitchers Brett Anderson (32) Chris Archer (31) — $9MM club option with a $1.75MM buyout Jake Arrieta (34) — can opt out of remaining one year and $20MM unless Phillies exercise a two-year, $40MM option Homer Bailey (34) Clay Buchholz (35) Madison Bumgarner (30) Trevor Cahill (32) Andrew Cashner (33) — $10MM vesting/player option Jhoulys Chacin (32) Yu Darvish (33) — can opt out of remaining four years and $81MM Gerrit Cole (29) Marco Estrada (36) Kyle Gibson (32) Gio Gonzalez (34) Cole Hamels (36) Matt Harvey (31) Jeremy Hellickson (33) Felix Hernandez (34) Rich Hill (40) Derek Holland (33) — $6.5MM club option with $500K buyout Corey Kluber (34) — $13.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout Wade LeBlanc (35) — $5MM club option with a $450K buyout Wade Miley (33) Shelby Miller (29) Matt Moore (31) Ivan Nova (33) Jake Odorizzi (30) Martin Perez (29) — $7MM club option with a $500K buyout Michael Pineda (30) Drew Pomeranz (31) Rick Porcello (31) Jose Quintana (31) — $11.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout Clayton Richard (36) Tanner Roark (33) Tyson Ross (33) Hyun-Jin Ryu (33) Ervin Santana (37) Drew Smyly (29) Stephen Strasburg (31) — can opt out of remaining four years and $100MM Julio Teheran (29) — $12MM club option with a $1MM buyout Jason Vargas (37) — $8MM club option with a $2MM buyout Edinson Volquez (36) Michael Wacha (28) Adam Wainwright (38) Zack Wheeler (30) Alex Wood (29) Try to get one of the top tier guys and then make a Rays type move (Morton signing) and overpay a bit for a mid to back-end type of guy on a one year or two year deal. Edited July 29, 2019 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Pretty sure Strasburg will opt out with the year he is having. Teheran and Quintana could have their options declined. Teheran is more likely with the pitching depth the Braves have. Plenty of interesting guys on the market this year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 2 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said: Pretty sure Strasburg will opt out with the year he is having. Teheran and Quintana could have their options declined. Teheran is more likely with the pitching depth the Braves have. Plenty of interesting guys on the market this year. If Quintana's option is declined (I don't think that it will personally), I would be open to bringing him back. Edited July 29, 2019 by soxfan2014 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JUSTgottaBELIEVE Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 13 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: If Quintana's option is declined (I don't think that it will personally), I would be open to bringing him back. Feels weird to say but I’d guess Gonzales outperforms Q over the next 4 years. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caulfield12 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 (edited) 27 minutes ago, soxfan2014 said: Starting Pitchers Brett Anderson (32) Chris Archer (31) — $9MM club option with a $1.75MM buyout Jake Arrieta (34) — can opt out of remaining one year and $20MM unless Phillies exercise a two-year, $40MM option Homer Bailey (34) Clay Buchholz (35) Madison Bumgarner (30) Trevor Cahill (32) Andrew Cashner (33) — $10MM vesting/player option Jhoulys Chacin (32) Yu Darvish (33) — can opt out of remaining four years and $81MM Gerrit Cole (29) Marco Estrada (36) Kyle Gibson (32) Gio Gonzalez (34) Cole Hamels (36) Matt Harvey (31) Jeremy Hellickson (33) Felix Hernandez (34) Rich Hill (40) Derek Holland (33) — $6.5MM club option with $500K buyout Corey Kluber (34) — $13.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout Wade LeBlanc (35) — $5MM club option with a $450K buyout Wade Miley (33) Shelby Miller (29) Matt Moore (31) Ivan Nova (33) Jake Odorizzi (30) Martin Perez (29) — $7MM club option with a $500K buyout Michael Pineda (30) Drew Pomeranz (31) Rick Porcello (31) Jose Quintana (31) — $11.5MM club option with a $1MM buyout Clayton Richard (36) Tanner Roark (33) Tyson Ross (33) Hyun-Jin Ryu (33) Ervin Santana (37) Drew Smyly (29) Stephen Strasburg (31) — can opt out of remaining four years and $100MM Julio Teheran (29) — $12MM club option with a $1MM buyout Jason Vargas (37) — $8MM club option with a $2MM buyout Edinson Volquez (36) Michael Wacha (28) Adam Wainwright (38) Zack Wheeler (30) Alex Wood (29) Try to get one of the top tier guys and then make a Rays type move (Morton signing) and overpay a bit for a mid to back-end type of guy on a one year or two year deal. Morton has been one of the Top 3 signings this offseason...that would be a miracle. A week or two ago, Odorizzi looked like that guy. Someone else will think they can fix Wacha or Porcello. Edited July 29, 2019 by caulfield12 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GermanSoxFan Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Sign Strasburg or Cole to anchor the rotation. Wheeler would be the consolation prize. Wacha on a 1 yr deal to restore his value, have him battle it out with Lopez for the #5 spot. Cole/Stras Giolito Kopech Cease Wacha/Lopez Rodon should be back in July to help limit Kopech‘s innings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Sacamano Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 1 minute ago, GermanSoxFan said: Sign Strasburg or Cole to anchor the rotation. Wheeler would be the consolation prize. Wacha on a 1 yr deal to restore his value, have him battle it out with Lopez for the #5 spot. Cole/Stras Giolito Kopech Cease Wacha/Lopez Rodon should be back in July to help limit Kopech‘s innings. You can even open the year with both Wacha and Lopez and give them time and determine who should move to the pen (or the minors if Lopez struggles) when Kopech is ready. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chitownsportsfan Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 Judging by what Stroman returned Marco could be had for a B- guy and a C+ type, maybe two of the latter. That would be what, guys like 8-20 in our org that aren't walking wounded at the moment? I think the time is right to strike as it's a total buyer's market. There just aren't enough clubs contending to have a run on SP trades. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 1 hour ago, chitownsportsfan said: Judging by what Stroman returned Marco could be had for a B- guy and a C+ type, maybe two of the latter. That would be what, guys like 8-20 in our org that aren't walking wounded at the moment? I think the time is right to strike as it's a total buyer's market. There just aren't enough clubs contending to have a run on SP trades. Mentioned it, but what always scares me is how much they want you to pay for control vs. talent. Stroman is more talented but at 1.5 years. Marco is less talented but 3 (is it 3.5 or 2.5?). I don't really want to pay a premium for his control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChiSox59 Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 3 minutes ago, bmags said: Mentioned it, but what always scares me is how much they want you to pay for control vs. talent. Stroman is more talented but at 1.5 years. Marco is less talented but 3 (is it 3.5 or 2.5?). I don't really want to pay a premium for his control. He is a free agent following 2023. So 4.33 years. He isn't even arb eligible until 2021. The Mariners probably aren't going to just give him away. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 29, 2019 Share Posted July 29, 2019 1 minute ago, ChiSox59 said: He is a free agent following 2023. So 4.33 years. He isn't even arb eligible until 2021. The Mariners probably aren't going to just give him away. I didn't say they would, but I guess I'm saying don't pay the same package you would have given for stroman that you would give for gonzalez. But different people will value players within that 8-20 range differently so I can't tell you what hits my threshold and doesn't easily. I'm not sure I would be heartbroken if they traded steele walker for gonzalez, but I would be pretty bummed if we sent out stiever, even though it's more likely walker has some ML burn than stiever to this point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dam8610 Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 17 hours ago, bmags said: I didn't say they would, but I guess I'm saying don't pay the same package you would have given for stroman that you would give for gonzalez. But different people will value players within that 8-20 range differently so I can't tell you what hits my threshold and doesn't easily. I'm not sure I would be heartbroken if they traded steele walker for gonzalez, but I would be pretty bummed if we sent out stiever, even though it's more likely walker has some ML burn than stiever to this point. I don't understand the bolded, because they both came from college and Steiver is dominating a level that Walker is struggling with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bmags Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 11 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: I don't understand the bolded, because they both came from college and Steiver is dominating a level that Walker is struggling with. Stiever is a pitcher in A ball. There’s a long way to go. Walker may be proving he isn’t a starter but he has a number of pretty safe traits that should see him gradually climb pretty easily. I don’t like walker as a prospect and hated, hated the pick, but pitchers are tough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chicago White Sox Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 23 minutes ago, Dam8610 said: I don't understand the bolded, because they both came from college and Steiver is dominating a level that Walker is struggling with. I think it’s wrong to say Walker is struggling at High A. He’s most definitely not dominating or playing up to the level of a second round pick out of college, but a 114 wRC+ despite a suppressed BABIP isn’t terrible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Look at Ray Ray Run Posted July 30, 2019 Share Posted July 30, 2019 3 minutes ago, Chicago White Sox said: I think it’s wrong to say Walker is struggling at High A. He’s most definitely not dominating or playing up to the level of a second round pick out of college, but a 114 wRC+ despite a suppressed BABIP isn’t terrible. Yeah, he's probably earned a 120 or so wRC+. Could be better sure but struggling is the wrong word. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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