10 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

They didn't do what it took to convert. That's a fail. Unfortunately to convert this one it would have taken a bit more than more money. To think the White Sox didn't know that would be claiming his agent was negligent. Maybe how much more didn't make sense. This may all work out for the best. But still, if you can't convert when you don't offer the most money, and now can't convert when you do, what is there to hang your hat on? Hahn went on and on how the White Sox were now a destination. Reality says, not so much.

This must only apply to pitchers as he did convert (as you put it) on a hitter. One win, one failure, so far.

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So what should they have done Dick? Offer 20 million more than everyone else because the guys wife wants you to?

The White Sox offered the most money in FA; that is the ONLY thing a team can control that truly matters. Period, end of story. The Sox were rightfully laughed at for how they managed Machado - you can't laugh at them here too Dick.

120+ was already creeping into ‘this might not be the best idea’ throwing 15-20 mil on top of that is almost certainly a bad idea. 

4 minutes ago, GermanSoxFan said:

I see we are already at the stage where we commit group seppuku. 

LMFAO. 

 

4 minutes ago, MyNamesRod said:

If the Sox would have offered what it would have taken (probably 130ish mil), the contract starts to look bad. I’m glad they bid the highest and I’m glad they didn’t offer 15 mil more just to get the guy away from his wife’s fam. You guys all just want to find the negative in everything 

Not bad, though. More like “inefficient.” But is that really a problem with this roster?

the whole point to this rebuilding strategy is that you collect so much talent that’s underpaid (In other words, extremely efficient) you have space to actually get what you need via free agency, in which only the highest bid wins, making every win, by definition, inefficient.

if they were only ever going to sign players that the rest of the market misses on, there was never any point to rebuilding in the first place. You can be an also-ran fringe wild card contender and still be willing to get free agents on “good value” no matter what your payroll is. 

2 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So what should they have done Dick? Offer 20 million more than everyone else because the guys wife wants you to?

The White Sox offered the most money in FA; that is the ONLY thing a team can control that truly matters. Period, end of story. The Sox were rightfully laughed at for how they managed Machado - you can't laugh at them here too Dick.

Well the Sox weren't cheap, but they were played. It is alleged the Phillies just got into this thing, and he would have used the Sox to get more money out of them. 

4 minutes ago, TaylorStSox said:

I disagree, but okay. 

the guy with a road era over 5 and flyball rate near 40% is in no way, shape, or form a better fit for the Wsox and guaranteed rate field. just wrong.

3 minutes ago, asindc said:

Serious question:  What would you have had the Sox do in this case?

Offer more, add another year, don't be such a hot garbage organization for a decade, all of the above?

Once again, I'm not buying the Rosenthal report or the Sox guys, seems like PR spin at it's finest after the debacle of last year.  That said, if our offer was 120 I'm guessing the Sox and Wheeler's agent were playing a bit of chicken with the agent saying there's another team in the same range and the Sox eventually balked.  2 million with a deciding factor of the fiance being close to home is a lot different than 50 million guaranteed and playing with your friends.

Either way, I obviously have no clue what happened but this organization doesn't deserve the benefit of the doubt so I'm not giving it to them.

8 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I can tell you are always behind because you read the whole thread. That's a good thing. Wish more people would do that.

Yeah, playing catch-up on the plane.  I’ve been a caught a few times with very out-dated posts...lol.

2 minutes ago, Kiebs13 said:

the guy with a road era over 5 and flyball rate near 40% is in no way, shape, or form a better fit for the Wsox and guaranteed rate field. just wrong.

People look too deeply into whether a SP is right handed or left handed

2 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

Not bad, though. More like “inefficient.” But is that really a problem with this roster?

the whole point to this rebuilding strategy is that you collect so much talent that’s underpaid (In other words, extremely efficient) you have space to actually get what you need via free agency, in which only the highest bid wins, making every win, by definition, inefficient.

if they were only ever going to sign players that the rest of the market misses on, there was never any point to rebuilding in the first place. You can be an also-ran fringe wild card contender and still be willing to get free agents on “good value” no matter what your payroll is. 

EXACTLY.  It's very weird to me how many people just refuse to go an extra 15 mill with a team that currently has no payroll.

5/118 from the Phils

3.07% income tax = 4.4 mil in taxes=113.6 Million

5/120 from the Sox

4.95% income tax = 5.9 mil in taxes = 114.1 Million

Our offers were basically the same sans 500k for the differences in the tax rates.  We need to do better or this will be a jump ball every time.  

1 minute ago, southsideirish71 said:

5/118 from the Phils

3.07% income tax = 4.4 mil in taxes=113.6 Million

5/120 from the Sox

4.95% income tax = 5.9 mil in taxes = 114.1 Million

Our offers were basically the same sans 500k for the differences in the tax rates.  We need to do better or this will be a jump ball every time.  

Again, you pay tax based on the city you are playing in for that game; not based on where you live/play full time. The calculation is much more advanced than this and would vary year to year. 

You can bet that taxes do not wipe out the difference and it's certainly not the way you are calculating it.

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by Look at Ray Ray Run

I’m not at all mad about this. This was a player that left money on the table just because Philadelphia is closer to his family. If I were the Sox FO, I would just suck it up and take the hit and hit harder on the next free agent and something will happen. 

0 teams convert on 100% of their targets. There’s still a path to a competitive 2020. On to the next one. 

Remember the guy that posted on twitter that we're all bipolar?  Reading this thread has me thinking he was 100% right.

 

 

1 minute ago, maloney.adam said:

I’m not at all mad about this. This was a player that left money on the table just because Philadelphia is closer to his family. If I were the Sox FO, I would just suck it up and take the hit and hit harder on the next free agent and something will happen. 

What free agent? The quality is much worse now. 

Just now, bschmaranz said:

Remember the guy that posted on twitter that we're all bipolar?  Reading this thread has me thinking he was 100% right.

 

 

You have people blaming the Sox for not just giving Wheeler an actual 20 million compared to every other offer solely because that's what his wife wants; nothing to do with his production or talent.

6 minutes ago, mqr said:

120+ was already creeping into ‘this might not be the best idea’ throwing 15-20 mil on top of that is almost certainly a bad idea. 

Yep!

11 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

So what should they have done Dick? Offer 20 million more than everyone else because the guys wife wants you to?

The White Sox offered the most money in FA; that is the ONLY thing a team can control that truly matters. Period, end of story. The Sox were rightfully laughed at for how they managed Machado - you can't laugh at them here too Dick.

I doubt it would have been that much, but when everyone thought it would have taken $10 million more than what they were comfortable with, most, including you, thought that was a small price to pay. There was a figure where the fiance's family in NJ wouldn't have mattered. 

It's pretty binary. You either sign the player or you don't. 

BTW, I know you like to write Dick as much as possible, but grow up. It isn't fooling anyone. In fact, it's a lot of bluster, just like the Phillies.

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by Dick Allen

2 minutes ago, mqr said:

0 teams convert on 100% of their targets. There’s still a path to a competitive 2020. On to the next one. 

What’s this path your referring to?  I can’t blame the Sox for losing out on Wheeler when they were the high offer and well above initial expectations, but this most definitely makes competing in 2020 that much harder.

4 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

EXACTLY.  It's very weird to me how many people just refuse to go an extra 15 mill with a team that currently has no payroll.

It's because we all know that JR will always have a budget. It may be fine in the first couple years. But after that they will not be able to afford to pay their young players because of the budgetary restriction later.

Lets contemplate some trades to net us a starting pitcher and RFr. Boston/Yankees/Rockies???

4 minutes ago, bschmaranz said:

Remember the guy that posted on twitter that we're all bipolar?  Reading this thread has me thinking he was 100% right.

 

 

You're just realizing that now?

Just now, ptatc said:

You're just realizing that now?

Not at all, just being silly as usual.  

4 minutes ago, Look at Ray Ray Run said:

You have people blaming the Sox for not just giving Wheeler an actual 20 million compared to every other offer solely because that's what his wife wants; nothing to do with his production or talent.

There's always a reason; always an excuse.   At some point you have to deliver.....unless you are Rick Hahn, in which case just being Rick Hahn is delivery enough.

Rick Hahn doing trades for veterans....can't wait.

Edited December 4, 20196 yr by GreenSox