1 minute ago, yesterday333 said:

I never said it’s doom and gloom. We could easily not need even a really good Dunning going forward I just don’t like the value going away for the value coming in.

Different argument, same tone for me about the Abreu contract last year from a lot of us on the board. 

7 hours ago, Chicago White Sox said:

I thought you had in the bag man and somehow @ChiSox59 pulled a double upset to win it all!

Truly was incredible. 

5 minutes ago, fathom said:

Sox gonna be stuck pitching Drew Anderson in 2022 it seems like

If they're lucky!  The most likely scenario is they will have to fold up the franchise.  Oh well it was a good run.  

The issue is this trade was in lieu of spending money, the money we were all promised would be spent when the time came.

Now, if they want to follow this up and announce they have signed Bauer, I apologize. But we know that isn't happening. 

Edited December 8, 20205 yr by Dick Allen

I see both sides of this. What is weird to me is it seems like this board has an "avoid any pitcher over 30 like the plague" mentality, even with guys better than Lynn yet so many are ecstatic about this trade. I don't hate it, especially if we sign him to an extension but there are a lot of risk factors with this trade, more than I'm comfortable with and IMO than anyone else should be comfortable with. If Dunning had helped us net Darvish I have no problem. But this one is a little nerve racking. 

Edited December 8, 20205 yr by RagahRagah

2 minutes ago, Harold's Leg Lift said:

If they're lucky!  The most likely scenario is they will have to fold up the franchise.  Oh well it was a good run.  

So it sure seems from Rosenthal’s article that Lynn was more interested in playing for the Sox in 2021 with Tony than he was in 2020 with Ricky.  

1 minute ago, Dick Allen said:

The issue is this trade was in lieu of spending money, the money we were all promised would be spent when the time came.

They’re spending it, just not all in one place. I get the frustration, I would rather go for superstars.  Saying they’re not spending after last year and what’s likely to happen this year is inaccurate though.

This was  a move to win in 2021 and a bridge to get to 2022 and beyond. So, it's OK probably, maybe..

I like the move provided that Lynn doesn't partake in Chicago pizza and beef sandwiches and blow up any more.

 

 

22 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

This is absolutely correct.  Bargain hunting again.

 

24 minutes ago, ChiSox59 said:

It’s a major win for Jerry’s bottom line. A major win for the white Sox would be signing Trevor Bauer. If the Sox use the savings they get from Lynn to sign Springer or Bauer, then I’ll shut up. But that’s not happening. They’ll go cheap with the rest of the roster, because it’s what they’ve always done.  Trading cheap controllable assets for 1 year stop gaps goes against everything we’ve been told for years and certainly isn’t congruent with setting the club up for “sustain success” and a “multiple championship window”. 

I disagree. We don't get Lynn if he came with multiple years of control. Of course we traded a cheap controllable asset because thats what was required. There can be no mistaking we are a better team today and given the other potential options, Lynn is a great get. I like Dunning and believe he might turn into a very good pitcher and we might look back with regret but, for now, this move makes a ton of sense...especially if there are more in the pipe. 

34 minutes ago, RibbieRubarb said:

Come on guys...

So everyone who has a negative opinion on Dunning is automatically right? Cease is just as likely to flame out as Dunning, but people think he's more likely to develop into a top end starter because he throws 99 with a good breaking ball repertoire, despite his inability to control where any of it goes. It's like people ignore Dunning's superior results because he "only" throws 92-94. Now I obviously hope I'm wrong, but I thought Dunning was more likely to develop into a dependable SP than Cease.

3 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The issue is this trade was in lieu of spending money, the money we were all promised would be spent when the time came.

Now, if they want to follow this up and announce they have signed Bauer, I apologize. But we know that isn't happening. 

They are spending $8M more after this move.  You have been here long enough to know that Bauer was never likely an option and there are couple of reasons why beyond money.  The Sox are not getting into a bidding war over a player and I am starting to agree with that model.

The Sox will spend within their pay structure.  They will most likely spend for a RF and a DH both on short term deals.

Did Shark, Wells or Bartolo earn their contracts when the White Sox didn't extend them.

If Lynn is looking for 5/125+ in an extension, the Sox will not extend him but 3/50M+ range I think is more likely.  

6 minutes ago, fathom said:

So it sure seems from Rosenthal’s article that Lynn was more interested in playing for the Sox in 2021 with Tony than he was in 2020 with Ricky.  

Hmmmm seems like that should kinda be a big deal.  

40 minutes ago, Heads22 said:

I want Greg’s thoughts. 

Where is Greg?  He has been laying low for a while now.

13 minutes ago, Harry Chappas said:

Well this thread did not disappoint.

Lynn was not brought in to be an ACE he was brought in to supplement what is already here.  Of the top six cost controlled pitchers in the Sox system he has the lowest ceiling thus I am ok with moving him.  Dunning was a nice piece that was moveable because there are guys ahead of him and behind him that are as cost controlled and younger.  

JR has a spending model that fits this move.  If Lynn performs next year he will be extended at a nice raise if not extended sooner.  He is the bridge to the certainty of Kopech, Cease and Crochet and if extended, further to the Kelly, Dahlquist and Thompson time frame.....not to mention Stiever, Lambert and Flores are hanging around.  Lynn is the kind of guy the Sox pay not Bauer, Machado, Harper, etc.

I think a  person not liking this move is really digging deep to not liking it.  Having Dunning under cost control until his age 32 is a little much.  I can as easily see Dunning being noon-tendered as much as I can see him becoming Lance Lynn which I think is his ceiling.

 

This is great Rick Hahn speak right here.

"Rick, reporters are saying your boss is cheap and unwilling to spend for top end talent, how do you respond to that?"

"Well Jerry has a spending model that fits this move."

9 minutes ago, fathom said:

So it sure seems from Rosenthal’s article that Lynn was more interested in playing for the Sox in 2021 with Tony than he was in 2020 with Ricky.  

If winning is important to the player...he would obviously rather play for TL.  It's not a popularity contest.

8 minutes ago, fathom said:

Yep after the Shark debacle, I gave up on hoping for extensions.

That is part of what concerns me. This looks a lot like like past mistakes and behavior that has not worked out well in the past. 

For people who don't understand why some don't like this. For me, it's as simple as you spend on FA pitchers and offset them at the backend with guys like Dunning. If you can't extend Lynn, you are in the same boat next year with one less cost controlled option for the rotation, and one less trade chip to fill it. Historically, other orgs have evaluated Sox talent better than the Sox, so this is putting a lot on Katz in a short time. People are saying Dunning isn't ready to throw more than 120+ innings, but the same can be said for Kopech and Cease hasn't thrown more than 73 at the MLB level. Will anyone go a full normal workload next year? Teams will need depth next year.

The benefit of TLR and not spending during the rebuild is supposed to be that the Sox will spend differently. 

Extend Lynn and I feel differently. Spend on impactful free agents, like a real contender and I'll feel different.

If it's Lynn with no extension and a couple of Joc and Q types, this is same old White Sox.

And I know people are saying that Dunning is a back end,control type guy. There certainly was a different feel on this board about him last year. No he's not a Bieber in waiting, but others are also excusing him rather quickly and conveniently.

42 minutes ago, Heads22 said:

I want Greg’s thoughts. 

Greg will love it. It's a veteran for someone Greg thinks of as a prospect. What's not to like for him?

People are seriously crying about a barely top 100 prospect with a 4/5 starter ceiling being traded away for a solid #2??? Wtf? 

14 minutes ago, Dick Allen said:

The issue is this trade was in lieu of spending money, the money we were all promised would be spent when the time came.

Now, if they want to follow this up and announce they have signed Bauer, I apologize. But we know that isn't happening. 

could also take the savings with Lynn and get a top closer

28 minutes ago, Rowand44 said:

This could absolutely be the case with or with out Dane.  We literally have 0 idea what Dunning is at this point.  I know people liked what they saw from him in a super small sample size but that's all that was, a super small sample size.

Understood. It could have been the case with Dane. But it is certainly going to be the case without him (unless Lynn is extended). 

Next up, Wainright.  Plus, he just won the Roberto Clemente Award for his off the field contributions.

Fwiw, don’t think this will be our last link to the Cardinals while TLR is running things...

24 minutes ago, yesterday333 said:

It is not silly...  yes we get the better player now but nothing after this year. Next year they still have a pitcher and we will be looking to replace a tor. In 5 years they still have a pitcher who could be a tor and we have nothing. Like I said I get why you like it but you’re not gonna convince me to like it. 

The point of this trade is to win now. If we continually look at winning for the long term, then we will continue to push off winning just 1 more year. That's not what championship teams do. They try to win right now, build a culture of winning. That's what this move does. It gives us a decidedly better team in 2021. If we shipped off Kopech that actually has TOR ceiling, then I might not be as happy with the move. Sending a #3 pitcher that you can easily acquire each and every year is a no brainer. 

I do wish that they could have made this deal last year, and I honestly think we would have been in the  ALCS, because I think we would have beat Houston in the ALDS. 

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Next up, Wainright.  Plus, he just won the Roberto Clemente Award for his off the field contributions.

Fwiw, don’t think this will be our last link to the Cardinals while TLR is running things...

I expect a Yadi signing honestly

1 minute ago, caulfield12 said:

Next up, Wainright.  Plus, he just won the Roberto Clemente Award for his off the field contributions.

Fwiw, don’t think this will be our last link to the Cardinals while TLR is running things...

Agreed.