13 minutes ago, bmags said:

Me trying to believe the sensible "lineup construction isn't that important" in the face of the worst lineup combos possible

FWIW - the research shows an optimal lineup is worth about 2-3 wins a season against an average lineup.

Against the worst possible lineups, the best lineups are worth 10+ wins (For example, the optimal 1989 Braves go 86.5-75.5, whereas the worst order version goes 75.5-86.5). The latter situation doesn't come up often because you'd think an MLB manager could at least manage to make an average lineup every day but, well, here we are.

Source: https://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/opre.45.1.14

1 minute ago, gusguyman said:

FWIW - the research shows an optimal lineup is worth about 2-3 wins a season against an average lineup.

 Against the worst possible lineups, the best lineups are worth 10+ wins (For example, the optimal 1989 Braves go 86.5-75.5, whereas the worst order version goes 75.5-86.5). The latter situation doesn't come up often because you'd think an MLB manager could at least manage to make an average lineup every day but, well, here we are.

 Source: https://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/opre.45.1.14

Like Pvt Pyle, we as SOX fans have been living in a world of shit, as far as lineups go.

It's wild, people from St. Louis told me, if anything, TLR will always put out the best lineup to win that game. So I read his book "3 Nights in August" where he agonizes over lineup construction in a three game series against the Cubs. Then he gets here and immediately does the same bullshit that Renteria did to piss us off all last season.

Can't wait for people to question others "baseball knowledge" and "fandom" with regards to calling out TLR's bullshit; as if this fan base hasn't had to deal with enough shit sitting through the rebuild.

Shane Bieber probably came when he saw TLRs lineup.  Nick Williams in the 5 hole.  Wow the Ghost of Ricky Renteria is managing this team.  

1 hour ago, fathom said:

More convinced than ever that Kenny is his dad.

I will say that you were right. A few injuries and the lineup would look like shit .Only now it's most of the lineup . My only answer is that he's going with as many left handed power bats as possible with the hope that someone can run into a mistake with a few guys on like Eaton did. and hopes Giolito can hold down the Tribe and we can eek out a low scoring win. The only lefty he didn't put in there was Leury and even LaRussa has seen enough of Leury from the left side.It's not really LaRussa's fault the Sox didn't provide any depth. How often do you use Lamb and Williams ? No matter how they are used ,be it starting or pinch hitting, no one wants to see them playing in any capacity. Lamb, Williams, Hamilton that's 3 guys no one wants to play at all but they do have to play unless you want to run all the regulars out there every day. Bieber is one tough SOB.

Just now, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I will say that you were right. A few injuries and the lineup would look like shit .Only now it's most of the lineup . My only answer is that he's going with as many left handed power bats as possible with the hope that someone can run into a mistake with a few guys on like Eaton did. and hopes Giolito can hold down the Tribe and we can eek out a low scoring win. The only lefty he didn't put in there was Leury and even LaRussa has seen enough of Leury from the left side.It's not really LaRussa's fault the Sox didn't provide any depth. How often do you use Lamb and Williams ? No matter how they are used ,be it starting or pinch hitting, no one wants to see them playing in any capacity. Lamb, Williams, Hamilton that's 3 guys no one wants to play at all but they do have to play unless you want to run all the regulars out there every day. Bieber is one tough SOB.

Collins over Lamb gets my vote. And grab Lamb an outfield glove and tell him to play left.

Just now, manbearpuig said:

Collins over Lamb gets my vote. And grab Lamb an outfield glove and tell him to play left.

I didn't notice Collins was missing from the lineup . I figured I must ve missed someone beside Leury.

I'm hoping it's one of those weird games where like a 2-run homer in the first is just good enough to win it somehow (biased here because I have a -1.5 runline).

3 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I will say that you were right. A few injuries and the lineup would look like shit .Only now it's most of the lineup . My only answer is that he's going with as many left handed power bats as possible with the hope that someone can run into a mistake with a few guys on like Eaton did. and hopes Giolito can hold down the Tribe and we can eek out a low scoring win. The only lefty he didn't put in there was Leury and even LaRussa has seen enough of Leury from the left side.It's not really LaRussa's fault the Sox didn't provide any depth. How often do you use Lamb and Williams ? No matter how they are used ,be it starting or pinch hitting, no one wants to see them playing in any capacity. Lamb, Williams, Hamilton that's 3 guys no one wants to play at all but they do have to play unless you want to run all the regulars out there every day. Bieber is one tough SOB.

Who are these power lefty bats you speak of? Wouldn’t Collins fit that role?

One of these teams will let down their Ace tonight. 

3 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Who are these power lefty bats you speak of? Wouldn’t Collins fit that role?

Certainly not Williams.

34 minutes ago, gusguyman said:

FWIW - the research shows an optimal lineup is worth about 2-3 wins a season against an average lineup.

Against the worst possible lineups, the best lineups are worth 10+ wins (For example, the optimal 1989 Braves go 86.5-75.5, whereas the worst order version goes 75.5-86.5). The latter situation doesn't come up often because you'd think an MLB manager could at least manage to make an average lineup every day but, well, here we are.

Source: https://pubsonline.informs.org/doi/abs/10.1287/opre.45.1.14

I haven't read the article there, so I'm not saying you're lying, but every article on this that I HAVE read (including the most oft-cited one from Baseball Between the Numbers) concludes the difference to be roughly two wins over the least optimal lineup, not the average one, which is why people pretty much don't worry about it anymore.

This article's conclusion is way different than everything I've seen over the years.

11 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

I didn't notice Collins was missing from the lineup . I figured I must ve missed someone beside Leury.

Refreshing to see Leury out of a lineup.  A little Leury goes a long way.?

5 minutes ago, Eminor3rd said:

I haven't read the article there, so I'm not saying you're lying, but every article on this that I HAVE read (including the most oft-cited one from Baseball Between the Numbers) concludes the difference to be roughly two wins over the least optimal lineup, not the average one, which is why people pretty much don't worry about it anymore.

This article's conclusion is way different than everything I've seen over the years.

That article is surprisingly old for the subject.

6 minutes ago, ShoeLessRob said:

Who are these power lefty bats you speak of? Wouldn’t Collins fit that role?

Yes he would. I missed that he wasn't in the Lineup. But Williams and Lamb aren't slap hitters either but yes Collins could've DH'd in Lambs place.  And contrary to popular belief I wouldn't care if Vaughn gets to play over Williams against Bieber or any other RHP .  I just want wins and w/e happens to get them is what's best. If Vaughn contributes to a win I cheer and if Williams does the same I cheer.

Poll: if Giolito throws a perfect 9 innings, do the white Sox win?

1 hour ago, poppysox said:

I'm not keen on this lineup either but...It's not like AJ Hinch is setting the world on fire in Detroit.  

Lol cmon man, are you serious with this?

This is just a dinosaur favoring “veterans” over other options. Even if those “veterans” are masters of suck. 

bold prediction: Abreu and Moncada go a combined 1-8 with a walk, Eaton hits another dinger, Sox lose 6-1

On the one hand giving Vaugh 3 days straight off, then plugging him in against Bieber sounds like a real bad idea. 
 

on the other he better get sent down when AAA season starts
 

 

2 hours ago, soxfan49 said:

@CaliSoxFanViaSWside is this a legitimate start for Williams too?

You tell me how do you think Vaughn would fare against the RHP ace of Cleveland's staff Justin Bieber. Then tell me how his defense helps Giolito in LF.

Edited April 13, 20214 yr by CaliSoxFanViaSWside

2 minutes ago, CaliSoxFanViaSWside said:

You tell me how do you think Vaughn would fare against the RHP ace of Cleveland's staff Justin Bieber.

Probably the same as Williams and Lamb. Are we gonna bench Vaughn everytime we face a good RHP? 

This is fucking moronic.

We have Nick williams, Lamb and Mendick in the line up.

Meanwhile, our boy Vaughn sits the pine. What was the point of bringing him up!?!? 

Vaughn may have some early season struggles, YES, but it's 14 GOD DAMN AT BATS and he has a .400 OBP to go with it.

THATS FUCKING SUCCESSFUL.

The only reasonable solution is that he's had some serious problems with LF, but even then, LET HIM FUCKING DH.

 

God damn, it is fucking moronic. Any small, trivial little chance I was willing to give TLR to start the year has quickly been flushed down the drain.

Seriously, I don't even want this team to win. I'm watching for them to fuck it up. 

I wondered why there was 8 pages for a game thread that doesn’t start until 7pm - but after a couple posts... now I know ??‍♂️